Thread: [Audacity-quality] Dragging a point label left changes it to a region label
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From: Bill W. <bi...@go...> - 2010-01-30 05:41:56
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This is easy to reproduce. New project, generate an audio track, click anywhere and add label at selection. You now have a point label with a handle consisting of a circle and a triangle on the right side (why the triangle on the right side?). Grab either the circle or the triangle handle and drag left - the label changes to a region label. Undo and drag it right - it remains a point label. -- Bill |
From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2010-01-30 13:06:38
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Bill Wharrie wrote: > This is easy to reproduce. > > New project, generate an audio track, click anywhere and add label at > selection. > > You now have a point label with a handle consisting of a circle and a > triangle on the right side (why the triangle on the right side?). > Because a "point" label is actually just the left hand part of a region label. You can see this if you look in a .AUP file that has "point labels" Example: <label t="2.94902913" t1="2.94902913" title=""/> If you start with a region label - drag the left handle and when it hits the right edge it will push the right edge along. Similarly, drag the right handle and it can push the left edge when they collide. When the appearance changes to a single arrow, it indicates that both left and right handles are in exactly the same place - a "point" label. Steve D > Grab either the circle or the triangle handle and drag left - the > label changes to a region label. > > Undo and drag it right - it remains a point label. > > -- Bill |
From: Bill W. <bi...@go...> - 2010-01-30 15:17:21
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On 30-Jan-10, at 7:36 AM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: > > If you start with a region label - drag the left handle and when it > hits > the right edge it will push the right edge along. > Similarly, drag the right handle and it can push the left edge when > they > collide. > > When the appearance changes to a single arrow, it indicates that both > left and right handles are in exactly the same place - a "point" > label. Fine, but is this the behaviour a user would expect? In order to move a point label to the left the user has to first drag left creating a region label and then drag again to collapse it. Counterintuitive, I would say, and two drags when one should do. To my mind a point label should have two arrows. Drag the circle to move the label, drag either of the arrows to expand it into a region label. -- Bill |
From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2010-01-30 16:46:24
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Bill Wharrie wrote: > On 30-Jan-10, at 7:36 AM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: > > >> If you start with a region label - drag the left handle and when it >> hits >> the right edge it will push the right edge along. >> Similarly, drag the right handle and it can push the left edge when >> they >> collide. >> >> When the appearance changes to a single arrow, it indicates that both >> left and right handles are in exactly the same place - a "point" >> label. >> > > Fine, but is this the behaviour a user would expect? In order to move > a point label to the left the user has to first drag left creating a > region label and then drag again to collapse it. Counterintuitive, I > would say, and two drags when one should do. > > To my mind a point label should have two arrows. Drag the circle to > move the label, drag either of the arrows to expand it into a region > label. > > -- Bill > > Sounds like a reasonable feature request to me, but it would require a bit of redesigning. Currently, on a region label, the "arrows" point in toward the selected region. If you are going to be able to click on either of the arrows, then they must both be visible on a "point" label, which means they must point out away from the selection, or be otherwise arranged so as to be both visible. The problem then comes when two regions butt up against each other. Currently you can select the central dot to move both of the adjacent label handles together, or just select one of the arrows to move just one region handle. Question, how can you have both "arrows" visible in all cases? Steve D |
From: James C. <cr...@in...> - 2010-01-30 17:05:13
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On 30/01/2010 15:17, Bill Wharrie wrote: > To my mind a point label should have two arrows. Drag the circle to > move the label, drag either of the arrows to expand it into a region > label. > I agree, and know this code well. It is a good case of it being better to fix it in Audacity than to document the workaround in the manual. Bill, I've given your e-mail address write access to bugzilla. http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Audacity. Use the interface to ask it to e-mail you a new password. If you want to create a bug for it (enhancement request) that would be good. P4 it, and I will try to deal with it before 21st Feb (freeze for 1.3.12). --James. |
From: Bill W. <bi...@go...> - 2010-01-30 17:26:42
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On 30-Jan-10, at 12:05 PM, James Crook wrote: > If you want to > create a bug for it (enhancement request) that would be good. P4 it, > and I will try to deal with it before 21st Feb (freeze for 1.3.12). > OK, I hope I've done this correctly: http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109 -- Bill |
From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2010-01-31 02:02:31
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| From Bill Wharrie <bi...@go...> | Sat, 30 Jan 2010 12:26:35 -0500 | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Dragging a point label left changes it to a region label > On 30-Jan-10, at 12:05 PM, James Crook wrote: > > > If you want to > > create a bug for it (enhancement request) that would be good. P4 it, > > and I will try to deal with it before 21st Feb (freeze for 1.3.12). > > > > > OK, I hope I've done this correctly: > > http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109 Thanks, Bill. I just changed the Platform to "All/All" as it's a cross-platform issue, despite the fact that you are reporting it on a Mac. Gale |
From: Ed M. <edg...@wa...> - 2010-01-30 18:16:25
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> -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Wharrie [mailto:bi...@go...] > To my mind a point label should have two arrows. Drag the circle to move the label, drag > either of the arrows to expand it into a region label. > [ --Ed ] +1 --Ed |
From: James C. <cr...@in...> - 2010-01-31 18:17:23
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Bill, In latest SVN point labels now have both arrows. The left and right edges are in the same place. The circle means 'drag left and right edges when co-incident' so that you can now drag a label that labels a point by dragging its circle point. You can still also convert it to a region label by dragging the arrows. Also SHIFT plus drag now shifts a label however you drag it. If you do it on a circle connecting two labels, both labels move. If I'd been really smart you could drag a whole train-load of connected labels that way, but sadly not. It's still a usability improvement on what we had. Thanks for raising the point-label-moving issue. These updates should come through in a nightly build soon. --James. On 30/01/2010 17:05, James Crook wrote: > On 30/01/2010 15:17, Bill Wharrie wrote: > >> To my mind a point label should have two arrows. Drag the circle to >> move the label, drag either of the arrows to expand it into a region >> label. >> >> > |
From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2010-02-01 08:23:10
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| From James Crook <cr...@in...> | Sun, 31 Jan 2010 18:16:26 +0000 | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Dragging a point label left changes it to a region label > In latest SVN point labels now have both arrows. The left and right > edges are in the same place. The circle means 'drag left and right > edges when co-incident' so that you can now drag a label that labels a > point by dragging its circle point. You can still also convert it to a > region label by dragging the arrows. > > Also SHIFT plus drag now shifts a label however you drag it. If you do > it on a circle connecting two labels, both labels move. If I'd been > really smart you could drag a whole train-load of connected labels that > way, but sadly not. It's still a usability improvement on what we had. Thanks, James. Just tried on Ubuntu so far. Definitely better, especially the SHIFT + drag which always moves either point or region labels (as long as you can discover it). Otherwise I still think "how to move and drag" remains relatively unintuitive and hard to document, and should be improved further in the longer term. I've commented on: http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Proposal_Label_Enhancements Bill has too, and I think we should move discussion there now? Thanks Gale > On 30/01/2010 17:05, James Crook wrote: > > On 30/01/2010 15:17, Bill Wharrie wrote: > > > >> To my mind a point label should have two arrows. Drag the circle to > >> move the label, drag either of the arrows to expand it into a region > >> label. |
From: Bill W. <bi...@go...> - 2010-02-01 17:31:08
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On 31-Jan-10, at 1:16 PM, James Crook wrote: > Bill, > > In latest SVN point labels now have both arrows. The left and right > edges are in the same place. The circle means 'drag left and right > edges when co-incident' so that you can now drag a label that labels a > point by dragging its circle point. You can still also convert it > to a > region label by dragging the arrows. > > Also SHIFT plus drag now shifts a label however you drag it. If you > do > it on a circle connecting two labels, both labels move. If I'd been > really smart you could drag a whole train-load of connected labels > that > way, but sadly not. It's still a usability improvement on what we > had. > Thanks for raising the point-label-moving issue. > > These updates should come through in a nightly build soon. > > --James. > Region labels: why can't clicking on the circle handle move the entire label without requiring the shift key? Is it because of the special behaviour of end-to-end region labels? Point labels: In order to expand a point label to the left you have to start with the right-hand handle, and vice versa. I know this is consistent with how region labels behave and you end up with a region label with the arrows pointing in the right direction, but I find it counter-intuitive. -- Bill |
From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2010-01-30 17:24:02
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| From Bill Wharrie <bi...@go...> | Sat, 30 Jan 2010 10:17:13 -0500 | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Dragging a point label left changes it to a region label > On 30-Jan-10, at 7:36 AM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: > > > If you start with a region label - drag the left handle and when it > > hits > > the right edge it will push the right edge along. > > Similarly, drag the right handle and it can push the left edge when > > they > > collide. > > > > When the appearance changes to a single arrow, it indicates that both > > left and right handles are in exactly the same place - a "point" > > label. > > Fine, but is this the behaviour a user would expect? In order to move > a point label to the left the user has to first drag left creating a > region label and then drag again to collapse it. Counterintuitive, I > would say, and two drags when one should do. > > To my mind a point label should have two arrows. Drag the circle to > move the label, drag either of the arrows to expand it into a region > label. Snap. I suggested pretty much the same ages ago: http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Release_checklist_not_aiming_for_1.4#Label_issues Time for a new Proposal "More intuitive labels"? Does anyone support extending that Proposal to include labels in the waveform? That's very heavily requested by users. I think there is an intention (was for after 2.0) to implement multiple, non-contiguous labels. I'm not sure it's noted anywhere except on Checklist that doing discontinuous selections gives us a way to fix "Nyquist effects join clips together". Gale |
From: Bill W. <bi...@go...> - 2010-01-30 17:34:57
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On 30-Jan-10, at 12:23 PM, Gale Andrews wrote: > > | From Bill Wharrie <bi...@go...> > | Sat, 30 Jan 2010 10:17:13 -0500 > | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Dragging a point label left changes it > to a region label >> >> To my mind a point label should have two arrows. Drag the circle to >> move the label, drag either of the arrows to expand it into a region >> label. > > Snap. I suggested pretty much the same ages ago: > http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Release_checklist_not_aiming_for_1.4#Label_issues > > Time for a new Proposal "More intuitive labels"? Does anyone > support extending that Proposal to include labels in the waveform? > That's very heavily requested by users. Gale, you are our search-engine-extraordinaire! Thanks for pointing out that item. I've been thinking of a wiki proposal page but was unsure of how to create it. It seems I'd have to first make a user page for myself then create the link to the Proposal page on my user page? If this is appropriate I'll go ahead and do it. I have other ideas for making labels more useful, and a wiki page would be the place to lay those out. -- Bill |
From: Bill W. <bi...@go...> - 2010-01-31 02:28:34
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On 30-Jan-10, at 12:23 PM, Gale Andrews wrote: > > Time for a new Proposal "More intuitive labels"? Does anyone > support extending that Proposal to include labels in the waveform? > That's very heavily requested by users. > Page created. http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Proposal_More_Intuitive_Labels -- Bill |
From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2010-01-31 03:16:30
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| From Bill Wharrie <bi...@go...> | Sat, 30 Jan 2010 21:28:27 -0500 | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Dragging a point label left changes it to a region label > > On 30-Jan-10, at 12:23 PM, Gale Andrews wrote: > > > > Time for a new Proposal "More intuitive labels"? Does anyone > > support extending that Proposal to include labels in the waveform? > > That's very heavily requested by users. > > > > Page created. > > http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Proposal_More_Intuitive_Labels Excellent, thanks. Note you don't have to have a pre-existing page linking to a new page before you can create the new one. So you don't have to keep the link on your user page if you don't want it. I always create new pages from the address bar. See "Create New Page" in the Navigation box: http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Create_New_Page Gale |
From: Gale A. <ga...@au...> - 2010-01-31 03:41:08
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Ah. I see before you created your proposal page, James had previously created: http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Proposal_Label_Enhancements by moving the contents of "Label Track" which was a much earlier sort of "proposal page" for labels in the Feature Planning category. It pulled together labels suggestions from Feature Requests but was never linked to off it. I'd forgotten about "Label Track". OK, well I'll tidy that up and integrate your (Bill's) comments into Proposal Label Enhancements. It might actually be a good idea generally for "Proposal" pages to mention potentially useful suggestions from Feature Requests. We may not have done that in all cases. Gale | From Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> | Sun, 31 Jan 2010 03:16:21 GMT | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Dragging a point label left changes it to a region label | > > | From Bill Wharrie <bi...@go...> > | Sat, 30 Jan 2010 21:28:27 -0500 > | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Dragging a point label left changes it to a region label > > > > On 30-Jan-10, at 12:23 PM, Gale Andrews wrote: > > > > > > Time for a new Proposal "More intuitive labels"? Does anyone > > > support extending that Proposal to include labels in the waveform? > > > That's very heavily requested by users. > > > > > > > Page created. > > > > http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Proposal_More_Intuitive_Labels > > Excellent, thanks. Note you don't have to have a pre-existing page > linking to a new page before you can create the new one. So you don't > have to keep the link on your user page if you don't want it. > > I always create new pages from the address bar. See "Create New Page" > in the Navigation box: > http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Create_New_Page > > > > > Gale |