Martyn wrote:
>Overall, A fully-featured effect, but is it too complicated for
>main-stream? I don't know, as yet.
 
1) Adjustable Fade
===============
What has made this "fully-featured (over-featured imo) is the
addition of the presets.  The earlier versions of this effect that
I tested for Steve did not have the presets - they were added
quite recently.
 
The real problem that I have with the presets in "Adjustable
Fade" is that they remove  the "adjustability" - as use of any of
the presets inhibit use of the other controls  - actually they
inhibit the operation of the controls by the effect but due to the
limitations of Nyquist they can't be made visually inoperable
by graying them out.
 
Accordingly I would vote for removing the presets so that
"Adjustable Fade" can "do what it says on the tin" - and at the
same time look less intimidating to the user (it would remain an
extremely powerful effect though).
 
Even simplified like this it may remain too complicated for the
average mainstream user as Martyn suggests (I, personally, 
probably will never need to use it) but we should consider the
power-users too of whom there are plenty in the Audacity user-base.
 
If the presets were to remain in Adjustable Fade then I would
argue *strongly* for retaining them at the bottom of the effect dialog
as the "adjustable" part of an Adjustable Fade" should have precedence
over the "selectable" and "non-adjustable" part - but this would definitely
be a sub-optimal solution for me.
 
 
2) Fade Selector
=============
I do fully acknowledge that preset fade types are likely to be
extremely useful and indeed many people, including Gale, would
probably use them in preference to an Adjustable Fade.
 
What I suggest we consider then is creating a new tool which
enables the user to select and apply a fade shape - the presets
which currently sit in v30d of Adjustable Fade - and maybe
even add some more. 
 
Such an effect could be called "Selectable Fade" or "Fade Selector"
or any similar name TBD.
 
This would then easily facilitate the TAB use that Gale describes.
 
 
3) One-click fades
==============
In doing this I would definitely *not* want us to lose the facility
of a one-click simple fade, as with the current linear Fade In & Fade
out - and the new Pro-Fade (committed currently as "One-click Fade
out"). 
 
The facility to effect this on your audio selection with a single click is far
too powerful a tool lo lose.  It would be tedious in the extreme to have to
access those fades by a "Fade Selector" as proposed above,
necessitating at least two clicks and maybe more - but they could still be
additionally included in the "Fade Selector".  Indeed the "Fade Selector"
could even include secondary access to "Adjustable Fade"
 
My 2c worth.
 
Peter.
 
Peter Sampson
Tel: +44 (0)1625 524 780
Mob: +44 (0)7732 278 299
From: Gale Andrews <gale@audacityteam.org>
To: audacity-quality <audacity-quality@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Audacity-quality] Adjustable Fade effect


| From Steve the Fiddle <stevethefiddle@gmail.com>
| Fri, 7 Dec 2012 15:25:46 +0000
| Subject: [Audacity-quality] Adjustable Fade effect
> As promised, the "Adjustable Fade" effect.
>
> The documentation is not complete yet, but it's well on the way:
> http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/User:PeterSampson/Adjustable_Fade

Thanks again, Steve. My 2p's.

For my usage (I would mainly use presets), the presets
aren't "handy" at the bottom for repetitive usage unless
I am going to use a mouse. To change a preset, or change
from using a preset to using the controls, it's four
SHIFT + TAB's, or six TAB's.

If the presets were first, those who mainly use the controls
only need one TAB to get into the controls (and don't need
to TAB to change to using a preset).

I'm not convinced that in reality it's more confusing when
presets are first that controls are ignored when presets
are on.

So while I can live with presets at the bottom, my view for
actually using the effect comfortably is that they would be
better at the top (the default could still be "None Selected"
as now).

This assumes most people are going to use presets which I
think is a reasonable assumption. At least I don't think such
people should be made to work four or six times harder when
using they keyboard.   

Other points:

* The "Exponential" presets have a very long tail - do we need
  that?

* I think "Gain" or "Change" or some word should be added to
  the three Start and/or End controls. Otherwise, those who
  want a fade to a "target" level might be thinking this is it
  if they change to "dB" :=)

* Typo "ExponentialOut" (no space) in the presets.
 


Gale 

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