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Poll about Stendhal

2005-04-05
2013-06-06
  • Hi,

    I have so questions around the head and would love to listen to your opinions or ideas.

    1) Try moving on Stendhal using the mouse, doesn't it look to perfect? Should perhaps player move only one tile at a time instead of a part of it?

    2) Do I enable Player Killing? Do I allow players to attack themselves?

    3) On damage a number pop up above the player, the client has all the information about the combat, just two data items:
    a) risk of hitting the target
    b) damage done to the target
    So should there be any kind of feedback to *sense* the combat? How it should be? ( I played Tibia and they using a sparkle, a cloud and blood to indicate the different states, hitted but blocked, missed and hitted and damaged.

    4) GUI can't be modify (easily) on runtime, so how a log should appear? as a different window? using a part of the screen?

    5) Stendhal lacks totally of GUI during game operation, no idea of what to do about it...

    If you can test it please, any feed back about it is really thanked.
    I can't run a server now because I can't guarantee 24/7, so no public server by now.
    If you can run a server 24/7/365, write me :)

    Regards,
    Miguel

     
    • midtocry
      midtocry
      2005-04-07

      hi Miguel,

      > 2) Do I enable Player Killing? Do I allow players to attack themselves?

      How can newbies survive, if they will be killed by other players? XD
      hmm...maybe only players with similar lvls should be allowed to fight each other. Or create a special zone (in Runescape it is called "wildness") where player killing is enabled.

      btw. I could successfully run Stendal on my comp. Great work!  I would like to help with some tasks, but first of all I need to study the code. :-)

       
    • About player killing:
      I think the idea of a zone where PK is possible is a good idea. players with more experience can go there ans fight, otherwise if u are a newbie or dont like PK, u just stay in another zone.

      As for output, e.g. chat text, in game, there should be a section (most likely bottom of window) which has the chat input and output, and also maybe some control buttons just above them... something simple

       
    • Sal Z
      Sal Z
      2005-04-09

      "1) Try moving on Stendhal using the mouse, doesn't it look to perfect? Should perhaps player move only one tile at a time instead of a part of it?  "

      I think that the actual system is already good...the problems can arise during fights, but right now a "zeldish" combat scheme is not a so bad idea..maybe the mouse should be used to select elements on the GUI (inventory items, potions...).

      "2) Do I enable Player Killing? Do I allow players to attack themselves?  "

      As Said before, special zones would be nice to implement.
      It would be also a nice idea to consider such zones between "towns" , in wild areas, leaving a small "No-fight zone", like as path to let the players to reach some cities (let's say, the "capitals" ) without the risk of being killed, robbed... or who know what? :)

      "4) GUI can't be modify (easily) on runtime, so how a log should appear? as a different window? using a part of the screen?  "

      What do you mean exactly as "log"? only the dialogs or any information about the game (like buying something , attacking, etc...)
      It would be nice if there were a small icon next to the text form that pops up a window, with a sort of  diary with every dialog, action ad quest done.
      If not possible,a small log ( two -free lines) over the text form is almost necessary.Right now it's impossible to follow a conversation with more than 3 people in stendhal!

      "5) Stendhal lacks totally of GUI during game operation, no idea of what to do about it...  "

      Until stendhal is going to have a well defined gameplay, it's almost impossible to design a perfect interface.
      In my opinon it should not take any part of the game screen, but it should be dockable on the borders of the main window, like winamp forms.
      But I dont'know if Java can do this in native way.

      Of course the game screen dimension should NOT be resizeable: it's a raster-2d game, not vectorial, a bigger screen dimension means that a user with a higher resolution will have a bigger "line of sight."

      I have some more ideas , if you want to listen... :)

      Short term idea:

      It's would be great if there were sone sort of ballons around the text written by the users, or at least a background , it's very hard to read it when you are over  some tiles...

      Long term idea :
      Graphical Themes: I think that the game graphic should  provide more than only one Graphical style 2 ...Maybe an old school style and a "fake 3d"one, so it will not disappoint the user...or let the server mantainer to choice which.
      Anyway, I think it is a very long term problem :)

       
      • 2) Ok, it would be simple to add this.
        4) Ok, I will try the window pop up

        I also want to do the ballons thing, I am just trying to look for a simple way of doing it.

        Changing style is very simple ( just change the GFX ) but requiere also to edit code to change the collision areas, this should be taken out to a configuration file.

         
    • Sal Z
      Sal Z
      2005-04-16

      I've rebuilt the entire server (MySQL, marauroa and stendhal CVS) under linux and it's perfecly working...
      And the log is exactly what i meant,really a great work!

      The same thing could be done for the game interface, so the user can actually manage it as he wish...

      Don't you think so? ;)

       
    • kim purnell
      kim purnell
      2005-04-23

      re:  player vs player.  another option is player  intially comes into game pvp unenabled.  Then if they wanted to they could select to become pvp enabled.

       
      • ok.
        I think that I am really considering option that Salz wrote, that is to create PVP areas and the rest safe areas.

        But it could be joined with your idea unless later it is proven that it makes the gameplay to go down, for example, people that are just being a pain in your ass and you can't "reply" him/her.

         
        • Sal Z
          Sal Z
          2005-04-25

          Actually I have some ideas about implementing samoa's ideas in the "zone system"...
          feel free to ignore/criticize them, of course!

          After all, the stendhal world can be considered as more maps , ( I will call them "Cells") connected between them that are partially displayed on screen by the client.
          Here is an example of what i mean...

          http://digilander.libero.it/salz85/ImageOne.png

          When the player is playing he just sees the game map as rectangles, which can be considered as some "theorical meausure unit" of the world map.

          So every cell / "rectagle" can be considered as a zone with some well defined property.
          Every cell has some indication if the player can be attacked, if Pk is allowed and so on.

          this way you will have a series of "zones" that will constituite the game world, each with its own characteristics.

          So the entire World map should "appear" this way:

          http://digilander.libero.it/salz85/ImageTwo.png

          The green areas mean that it has no riskes at all;
          The yellow areas mean that there is the possibility of attacks from NPCs;
          The red areas mean that you can be attacked from other players and the risk of being attacked from NPCs is even higher.

          The transition between every cell should be seamless if they have the same property ,or should be evident (like when you pass from the starting map to the seller's one) if it has changed some of their property.

          This way we give a meaning to every cell dimension: If you see a screen change, it means that even the possible actions are changed.
          It makes even easier to "drive" the sheeps :)
          Just "tell" them to not go in a zone with different property without a direct control and the job is done.

          About the opportunity of "answering"  to other player offences, it should be possible to carry them trough a particular spell in an area where PK is allowed,or let the higher level player to "answer" even in the yellow areas...

          I hope it's clear...

          By the way, i'm noticing It's quite difficult to render everything correctly over the forum, i will put all over a blog to explain them better!

           
          • Ok, the idea that I am going to implement is VERY similar, but instead of cells it descend to the level of tiles, so you can create the "zones" using the map editor easily and it allows a finer grain detail.

            I could try to setup a forum if you think it is a better idea. I would love to listen to options.

             
            • Sal Z
              Sal Z
              2005-04-26

              Great, I thought it that way just to avoid the problems with the IA...Of course this way it's really better.

              For the forums...Yeah, I think it's way better for the development.I'll put everything i'm writing about stendhal somewhere online anyway, just to keep track of my own ideas :)

               
          • Ragnar-GD
            Ragnar-GD
            2005-04-26

            What I wonder, is this:
            If you create a game, where

            - people who like open PvP can walk around 100% of the area, and just have to stop PvP in some 0.x% of that are

            and

            - people who don't want PvP, but just PvE, can use only, say, 40% of the area (that is, they can only enjoy 40% of our level-design efforts)

            what kind of people will you attract? And which people will prefer to go elsewhere?

            Every type of Player should be able to visit 100% of the game, no matter what, IMHO.

            Using seperate Instances of the same world for different pleasures, or making PvE-Players and PvP-Players "invisible" to each other somehow, are the way to go.

            Again: IMHO

             
            • Sal Z
              Sal Z
              2005-04-26

              Sorry , probably I didn't explained my idea correctly.

              What I meant was that such "zone system" would let know the user what to expect from the place he was: what action he could do, and what he couldn't.

              Apart from this the  user should be free to go where he want.
              Anyone should be able to visit any place, otherwise we had just created an "apartheid" simulator,which is not exactly fun.

              If you have ever played zelda (I mean, the SNES one) you should know that you could complete the game without entering some areas, where you could get some rare rewards...If the game becomes too difficult for you, just come back to the main road.The fact that Miguel A. B. Lardin had implemented a " per-tile zone system" would just make easier to balance the difficulty...more you go away from the main road, more are the risks you can meet.It seems pretty logical to me.
              Giving the opportunity to make everyone to travel around the world map from the beginning can take away much of the fun...like as zelda: more powerful you are, then more key items you can get, then more far away you can go.

              Your idea is extremely good, World of Warcaft uses th same system.But it relies on one factor: The game should be extremely popular, or dividing the audience on two worlds can make them almost desert.

              A way to avoid such problems is found on Phantasy Star Online, but it make it too much event-driven.
              ----
              I have an idea about merging both systems:

              Every user should start with an high evade level (the skill that let you evade enemies aggressions) towards PvP... a sort of artificial "beginner luck": this way even if attacked from some disturbing player, a beginner does not suffer too much of it, being able to avoid much of the attacks.
              Of course such beginner luck should be inversely proportional to the experience gained, and related to the attacker level. so if a level 1 player is attacked from a disturbing level 100 player, it has some time to run away instead of an instatly death :)
              Such advantage should be ignored if the level 1 player attack first, of course :)

               
    • kim purnell
      kim purnell
      2005-04-23

      but you should definitely have pvp in some form and ability to opt out of

       
      • Sal Z
        Sal Z
        2005-04-23

        I think that it can be considered to be part of the "zone system"...

        If you want to fight with others palyers, go out of the secure path.If you are weak, tired or simply bored, keep staying in the main road.

        But I think there's a main issue behind the PvP in Stendhal...How can you coherently implement it in a game where the main characters are..sheeps?

        Maybe it could be implemented like Counterstrike "Hostage" mode...with sheeps instead of hostages:

        A group tries to carry a "flock" from a city/farm/whatever to another place, while another tries to steal them...but I don't know if the stendhal architecture can handles this.

         
        • Yes, it could be done. But...
          Sheeps AI actually is AWFUL, and it would move surely out of the secure path... I want to improve this soon and make it possible to play on the above scenario...

          Anyway, I have seen that many non-PVP are full of people that just want to exploit failures to bug other players, while PVP as full of pk that just want to kill you for pleasure... perhaps the whole online thing is completly wrong :P

           
    • kim purnell
      kim purnell
      2005-04-27

      wiki is good for documentation, but not quite like forum.

       


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