About adempiere.net

2012-06-09
2013-03-07
  • rsashka
    rsashka
    2012-06-10

    Hi Carlos,

    It seems to me that this practice is flawed.
    No need to look to the people whose actions have actually split the community.
    Otherwise, repeating their actions, we will be the same as they are.

    Regards,
    Aleksandr Ryabikov

     
  • nwessel
    nwessel
    2012-06-11

    Hi,

    ADeV is representing the whole community. For facts please refer to http://www.adempiere.com/ADeV.

    Norbert

     
  • RAM
    RAM
    2012-06-12

    Norbert Wessel you supposed to be Honorable Chairman of AD.eV but you also owner of company, Metas with obvious private business and thus potential conflict of interest):

    > ADeV is representing the whole community

    Indeed ADeV was elected by community to do so but under *specific* sanctioned matters.

    We have to ask if http://adempiere.de is now representing the whole community.
    When one can just simply open that site and what do you get but 4 german companies exclusively promoted. Even www.adempiere.org under full control of Red1 does not conduct itself that way.

    You cannot deny that one of those companies is yours, can you then be judge and party in your own judgement? You should remove yourself from responding and get another more trusted community member not in conflict. (Please note that your company is listed twice on the partners page).

    As for you constantly and conveniently pointing to a link to the ADeV voting thread,  we must ask you read carefully what you pointed at:
    http://sourceforge.net/projects/adempiere/forums/forum/611167/topic/4402583
    "The brand is managed by rules defined and voted by the citizen who are a representation of the community"

    You are now interpreting that citizens allow you blanket action including that adempiere.net and adempiere.biz are to be bought and redirected to a german site?

    Would that mean that ADeV now "hold the adempiere trademark worldwide" would thus mean that ADeV can redirect any domain to a german site without asking to community?

    Wouldn't that also lead us to worry what can happen to any other domains you are intending to buy with royalty money and subscriptions from our books sales and members?
    Now you cannot buy adempiere.com and adempiere.org but in case the actual trustees would have surrended to ADeV as you unashamedly demanded, would they also suffer the same fate?

    Regards,

    Raouf
    __________
    just a citizen trying to protect his own interests as well as community's
    p/s but think about it dear friends. I am not been personal. I just not good at English to express better.

     
  • Mark Ostermann
    Mark Ostermann
    2012-06-12

    Hello Raouf,
    thanks for you post. I have the impression that you are lacking of information, so I would like to try to explain quickly.

    Norbert Wessel you supposed to be Honorable Chairman of AD.eV but you also owner of company,

    The Chairman of ADeV (and the other 4 ADeV Borad Members) is voted by all ADeV Members. As far as I remember nearly all ADeV Members are earning their money somehow with ADempiere labour, and yes some of them are company owners too.

    … but 4 german companies exclusively promoted. Even www.adempiere.org under full control of Red1 does not conduct itself that way.

    a) The listed members on the front page of the ADeV Website are promoting members. They pay 1200 Euro per Year. Promoting Members don't have voting rights in ADeV. Only Persons can be active members with voting rights (60 Euro per Year).
    b) The Partner Page on ADeV Website list the Partners in Order of their Postcode. That's the reason why metas is listed twice, because we have an office in Sankt Augustin and one in Munich.
    c)  About adempiere.org: Thats not true. I would like to point your attention to the following page http://adempiere.org/site/partners. Seems as if there is a similar page there too.
    d) At the moment supporting members of ADeV all come from Germany, but it would be great to have supporting mebers from other countries too. Please let me know if you want to become a supporting member of ADeV and you will be listed on the Front page and on the partners page too.

    Wouldn't that also lead us to worry what can happen to any other domains you are intending to buy with royalty money and subscriptions from our books sales and members?

    a) Kai has written about this already yesterday, so please read again what he wrote. Norbert - in his roles as ADeV chairman - has fought for the current ADempiere domains with a Domain Grabber and he won. ADeV bought the Domains for 1 Euro. Not beause ADeV wanted to pay money but to have a legal contract about the Domain Transfer.
    b) Sorry, but I don't remember that you have been paying money nor effort for ADeV. Nor I remember that you have written a book that creates Royalties for ADeV. So how can you wite "OUR books sales and members"
    As far as I am informed ADeV receives Royalties from Packt Publishing and they are payed for "Adempiere 3.4 Extension and Customization Cookbook" and for "ADempiere 3.4 ERP Solutions". Thanks alot to Bayu and Ajit for this, you have done a really great job.
    The books are presented on the ADeV Website too.

    Please let me know if I can help you with further informations about ADeV, so that alot of these misunderstandings among some communty members can be cleared.

    Have a nice Day.

    Greetings from Sankt Augustin
    Mark
    __________
    just an ADempiere citizen, and ADempiere Functional Team member, and active ADempiere e.V. Member and …
    … i'm earning my living with ADempiere labour

     
  • Vassilis V
    Vassilis V
    2012-06-12

    Since  adempiere.asia gives a \"Host not found\" error I think it would be a really bad idea to have adempiere.org pointing to it..

    Having adempiere.com point to  adempiere.co would equally be a bad idea, in my opinion, as its clearly the colombian community site that does not even have any information in english (I would expect it from a .com site).

    Doing the redirecting to adempiere.de is not ideal but better than to have them showing a Page/Host not found..
    At least adempiere.de is in english and in the upper right corner there are big links for the developers to this forum and a link to the wiki.

    There was a discussion during the conference last year (the recording might even be on the wiki) about all those pages and how it would be better managed. The general idea that was discussed, if i remember correctly, was to have a single \"marketing\" or \"show-room\" page where interested individuals and companies can get informed about what adempiere is and its features etc. That front page would then link to the different specific pages like the wiki, the forums aswell as the different community sites. Some of the community sites might be individual sites (like adempiere.co) some other, smaller communities, might want to have their community on the same wordpress installation as adempiere.de.

    Having started with adempiere coming from the \\\"interested individuals and companies\\\" corner, I found the idea very good as its something that adempiere lacks at the moment. Being interested to start a community site for a country that there is almost no adempiere activity I like that idea that I can be offered a \\\"free space\\\" where I can start.

    Regards,
    Vassilis

     
  • nwessel
    nwessel
    2012-06-12

    Hi Vassilis,

    thanks for the recap of the last conference. We have worked for that goal having a multisite portal since then.
    The idea is to have sites like for instance adempiere.it pointing to a subsite of adempiere.net maintained by the local community e.g. italy.
    Internal URL for that sample is http://it.adempiere.de (you may take a look). We also got adempiere.it from a domain grabber and currently match that domain to that subsite. Adempiere.it is not in use today so we can slowly start with that.
    ADempiere.de is moved to a subsite as well. So it will be reachable via de.adempiere.net and adempiere.de. The content will be german only.
    So at the end we have a site network reflecting the marketing side of adempiere which is not represented at the moment thus having the local communities maintaining their content and controling how they want their local customers see adempiere.

    That is the plan to push the marketing side which was so often expressed to ADeV.
    By the way, all the work and domains are just paid by the ADeV members and a few companies.
    If anybody wants to join in, please send me an email and I will send you the application form.

    Another thing we need is more wordpress experts that can help us to maintain that structure. In case you are an expert and want to help for free or paid, please contact me.

    Best regards,
    Norbert

     
  • nwessel
    nwessel
    2012-06-12

    I would like to add that once adempiere.net is established, the subsites are available under <TLD>.adempiere.net AND adempiere.<TLD> e.g. it.adempiere.net / adempiere.it.
    So adempiere.de will be only used for the local german community.

    Norbert

     
  • RAM
    RAM
    2012-06-13

    Mark, you are also another partner of the same company "Metas". Of course, you deny, but can you avoid conflicts of interest right? I'm not asking you for information, but I say "non-conflict of interest".

    What I'm trying to explain is that there are too many conflicts of interest in the governance of that community.

    You think for countries who don't read this English well. Now ADempiere Russia has formed its own foundation. So do Brazil and Japan soon.

    Talking about websites leading to nothing then you better google in their lingua as they have activity in own lang and they hold those domains for community there. Not prominent like the way you do it.

    You now say, "Pay up Raouf, and get into big list"? is it a joke ?

    Bad words and poison to the bazaar that original founder and leader showing contributors only get listed. Yes you hate him so much for last year visit to Europe and Latin America, but he just upgrade the Windows Installer for OSGi upgrade of ADempiere361 in http://sourceforge.net/projects/red1/files/Software%20Packages/iDempiere09a.zip/download

    long live the ADempiere Community

    Regards,

    Raouf

     
  • nwessel
    nwessel
    2012-06-13

    Hi Raouf,

    I find it remarkable that you say "long live the ADempiere Community" and post a link to the idempiere installer at the same time.
    idempiere is a fork of Adempiere and not a part of this project.

    Norbert

     
  • Mark Ostermann
    Mark Ostermann
    2012-06-13

    Hello Raouf,
    thanks alot for your response. It is important to talk about such things, so i will try to give you some answers, to support better understandings.

    Mark, you are also another partner of the same company "Metas".

    Yes, and I believe that everybody (or almost) in our community knows that. This information is written on my ADempiere Wiki userpage, take a look and you can see. There you will also see, that we have other partners/ employees in our company that are other community members too. We even have colleagues which are not part of ADempiere community (yet). We have invited them to participate, but we don't force them to participate.

    Of course, you deny, but can you avoid conflicts of interest right? I'm not asking you for information, but I say "non-conflict of interest".

    I do my best to avoid conflicts of interest between our company and the ADempiere community work. And I believe that the built up structures in ADempiere community  (Community Council, Functional Team, Technical Team) assists this very good. By the way, in case you don't know, we have other ADempiere community members/ Technical Team/ Functional Team/ ADev members or ADeV Board members that are successful company owners too, for example Steven (Adaxa), Kai (Schaeffer), Victor (e-evolution), Mario (Westfalia), Joel (Adaxa), Ramiro (OFB Consulting), Trifon (D3 Soft), Michael (Akuna), Teo (metas.ro) and I believe many more (sorry for those that I have forget to mention here, it is not on purpose). Most of these owners have colleagues, that are important members of this community too. That's great! And I believe most community members are earning their money with ADempiere labour. And all spend time/ effort/  money to support our ADempiere community.

    You now say, "Pay up Raouf, and get into big list"? is it a joke ?

    Please don't cite me wrong, I didn't write or say that.
    No, it was not a joke, It was an honest invitation to you, to become a promoting member of ADeV. This is the way, ADeV receives the needed money to support the ADempiere Community. In the last years ADeV has been funding/ supporting our ADempiere community in different occasions with the worth of aprox 25.000 Euro. These occasions are for example:

    * ADempiere Conference 2009 in Berlin, including Flights and Hotel for some Community Members
    * Funding of PMC Head in 2010 for 6 months
    * ADempiere Conference 2011 in Berlin
    * Different Trade Fair and other occasions in Essen, Hannover, Berlin
    * Providing infrastructure for our community Wiki adempiere.com and Software Development Infrastructure.

    Bad words and poison to the bazaar that original founder and leader showing contributors only get listed. Yes you hate him so much for last year visit to Europe and Latin America

    Hmm, not sure if I have understood you correctly, so I'll try to guess. Are you talking about Red1?
    If yes, then: Yes, Red1 is ONE founder of ADempiere among others.
    And NO, I DO NOT hate him! How can you claim things like that? You and I have never met each other so you don't know me personally. And I assume that you don't know Red1 personally too (please correct me if I'm wrong). If you were better informed you would know that metas invited Red1 to come and visit us for a few days - prior to an ADempiere conference in Berlin - at our office a few years ago. During this visit Red1 was a very pleasant guest of me and my wife in our appartment in Bonn and we had a nice time with very interesting talks. Raouf, please stop claiming things you don't even know about.

    I hope I was able to give you a better understanding for some things. If you have further questions please don't hesitate to let me know.

    Greetings from Sankt Augustin.
    Mark
    __________
    just an ADempiere citizen, and ADempiere Functional Team member, and active ADempiere e.V. Member and …
    … i'm earning my living with ADempiere labour

     
  • RAM
    RAM
    2012-06-13

    Hi Norbert,

    I find it remarkable that you say "long live the ADempiere Community" and post a link to the idempiere installer at the same time. idempiere is a fork of Adempiere and not a part of this project.

    Yes "Long live the ADempiere Community", because ADempiere Community is not only German community and/or ADev team. ADempiere Community is a world community with the respected members around the world.

    Your opinion, your point of view can be different, but please don't impose it. So i think the iDempiere project (ADempiere + OSGi ) is a part of ADempiere project it's not your opinion and your point of view but it's an opinion of a lot of members of this community.

    Regards,
    Raouf

     
  • Ramiro Vergara
    Ramiro Vergara
    2012-06-13

    Raouf,

    Please do not include a "lot of members of this community" in your statements. As far as I understand you are not an elected or de facto representative of this community.

    ADeV represent a very broad number of people and countries http://www.adempiere.com/ADeV#ADeV_Members_are_from_these_countries and ADeV does not impose opinions as you are trying to impose using the umbrella of the community.

    Notewithstanding the above we will respect you and your opinions

    Regards

    Ramiro

     
  • RAM
    RAM
    2012-06-13

    Ramiro, Ramiro, Ramiro,

    What are you talking about ? as i have mentioned a lot of structures ( Russia, Brazil, France, Colombia, Japan, Argentina, etc … ) around the world  formed its own foundation, other soon. I'm sorry for you, but a lot of members of this community think different.

    Happy for you that you make promotion for your structure ADev, but it's not my opinion, I respect yours.

    Today, some things are wrong in this governance and i hope that we can change it on august.

    Regards,

    Raouf

     
  • Thomas Bayen
    Thomas Bayen
    2012-06-15

    still one thing to say to Norbert:

    If anybody wants to join in, please send me an email and I will send you the application form.

    Oh, very well! I did that some weeks ago. Do you like me to post your answer here? Just to clarify what you mean by "if anybody wants".

    Thomas Bayen