Announcement of CC Team Election 2012

2012-10-12
2013-03-07
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  • Hi community,

    the CC Team wants to inform you about the rules and schedule of this years CC Team election:

    1.- Who will vote
    All elected, active citizens will vote

    2.- According to the CC constituency Rules, teams have to be nominated, either by themselves or by other citizens.

    3.- The community is urged to read carefully the duties of the CC (http://www.adempiere.com/Community_Governance , http://www.adempiere.com/Communication_Guidelines) .It is moderating, rather than governing. It carries out the instructions given by the Functional and Technical teams.

    4.- Teams can be nominated and discussed from the date of this announcement

    5.-Schedule
    Nominations & discussions October 12th - 28th , 2012
    Elections will be held  October 29th 2012

    Best regards,
    Karsten Thiemann

    in behalf of the CC Team

     
  • xolali
    xolali
    2012-10-17

    Hi Karsten,
    Since you are acing on behalf of CC i guess this is better addressed to you.
    I dont see citizen voting as part of this year's voting process. There are a number of us
    here who dont want to be disenfranchised.
    Can you please indicate to us which period new citizens will be nominated and confirmed as per election guidelines

    xolali

     
  • Hi,

    to become an ADempiere citizen you have to be nominated by other citizens. This can be done at any time. When we have some new canditates a voting is scheduled.
    To get all needed data of the citizens we have a form that should be filled by all new citizens candidates before the voting: http://www.adempiere.com/Citizen_Application_Form
    For more information about how to become a citizen go to http://www.adempiere.com/Community#How_to_become_a_Citizen

    Best regards,
    Karsten

     
  • nwessel
    nwessel
    2012-10-29

    Hi Community,

    hereby we nominate the following team to candidate for CC Team:
    Karsten Thiemann (CC Team Member and Head)
    Mario Calderon (CC Team Member)
    Ramiro Vergara (CC Team Member)
    Norbert Wessel (CC Team Member)
    Ricardo Santana (Active Member and Part of the Brazilian ADempiere Community)

    Best regards,
    Norbert

     
  • xolali
    xolali
    2012-10-29

    Hi Norbert,
    >>Nominations & discussions October 12th - 28th , 2012 Elections will be held October 29th 2012

    1. As per the time table for acceptance of nominations i think you're a little late with your nomination. Unless you want to    change the time table, i think this nomination is moot and invalid

    2. Secondly i realize that some nominations and endorsement for citizens have been ignored by you whilst you have accepted some other nominations and admitted them as citizens. Why is this, don't you think this will undermine the integrity of the process and that by so doing you'll be seen as manipulating the system to suit you?

    3.I also see you have nominated yourself to CC, is this allowed as per the guidelines??? I dont see that by reading the guidelines

    xolali

     
  • Hi Xolali,

    1. I would say this depends on the time zone you are on - 29.10. 00:40 PDT for example means 28.10. 23:40 in Seattle (PST) or 22:40 in Hawai or Alaska. The more important question is - why didn't you nominate a different team?

    2. Could you please specify the ignored nominations?

    3. Yes it is allwed since there is no rule against it and it is common to democraties to nominate yourself. Norbert is just a citizen with all rights a citizen has, including the right to nominate a CC Team.

    Best regards,
    Karsten

     
  • xolali
    xolali
    2012-10-30

    Hi Karsten,
    Thanks for the kind reply, its appreciated since others have chosen to be quite, i addressed Norbert directly in my second point since he is the elections officer
    and cannot pretend not to know the nominations in question by other citizens but since you have chosen to speak for him, here it goes…

    1. I can live with your reply about time zones  and all that, but yet still that nomination is invalid because according to YOUR rules, voting is done one week after nominations.
    Your voting day is today, we cant have a statutory one week to vote. So yes, its still late. Its important to allow people to speak to issues and enforce the rules fairly rather than saying "The

    more important question is - why didn't you nominate a different team?".
    The other issue is not to interpret the time in other peoples locale zones but to do so in the zone the individual is posting from. That will be a fair way of looking at it. By the way what time does it translate to in Germany (Berlin if you wish…). Maybe we should stick to sourceforge's time zone and stick with the allowable period…

    Anyways i have not nominated because
    a. Norbert, has denied nominated citizens since Nov. 2011 and status is pending since Nov. 2011 just to wait and turn around and say you don't have a voice because you are not a "citizen".  

             Just to derail the process. Any active "citizen" on the forums should know this…
            b. We need to look at the current way nominations are done else we allow people to form a clique of loyalists who do not have any dissenting views and hence create a mafia in the community
            c. Team members should be elected based on their individual vision for the project and the resulting team must learn to work together. The earlier model hasn't worked.
            d. It is important individuals are elected to form the team so that anyone who is standing for re-elections be made to give account of stewardship and whether they complied with the duties,
       commitments and obligations of the CC rather than hide behind the team as a whole.
            e. since CC meeting minutes is not been published as required, we cant tell those who didn't comply

    2. Norbert should state clearly that as election officer he hasn't ignored other nominations accept those by himself and "loyalists". This is quite obvious from this forum, do you still want me pasting links in here…? Karsten…

    3. >> Norbert is just a citizen with all rights a citizen has, including the right to nominate a CC Team.
      Is this true, the last time i checked he had special rights not like other citizens. If he is just a citizen… (oooo, their term has expired…) then gosh, he shouldn't be keeping those rights…. So another illegality is THEY are keeping RIGHTS they shouldn't have. Someone should … oooo, there's no one.. damn.. there's a VACUUM, goshh… we have a constitutional CRISIS

    Kind regards,
    xolali

     
  • Hi Xolali,

    3. >> Norbert is just a citizen with all rights a citizen has, including the right to nominate a CC Team. Is this true, the last time i checked he had special rights not like other citizens. If he is just a citizen… (oooo, their term has expired…) then gosh, he shouldn't be keeping those rights…. So another illegality is THEY are keeping RIGHTS they shouldn't have. Someone should … oooo, there's no one.. damn.. there's a VACUUM, goshh… we have a constitutional CRISIS

    You misunderstood me - beside from beeing a CC Team member Norbert is a citizen _also_. So he has the right to nominate like any other citizen.

    Best regards,
    Karsten

     
  • Hi Community,

    the election is started. Every citizen should receive an email with the subject 'Invitation to participate in survey'. At the end of the email is a personal link to the lime survey. If you are a citizen but you didn't receive the email please send an email to cc(at)adempiere.net

    Best regards,
    Karsten Thiemann (CC Team)

     
  • FINA PM
    FINA PM
    2012-11-07

    I think  will should first ask CC team  if they want to continue working in CC… I know some members ,  they are very smart and clever people… I am sure they also need changes. CC is not privilege, it is a responsibility … Better to negotiate rather then make another "ADempiere Spring".  We are loosing citizens and same time quality and clients.

     
  • Mario Calderon
    Mario Calderon
    2012-11-11

    hi Fina,
    as a CC member (and candidate for the new CC team), you are right: being a member of the CC team requires time which we have somehow to rip off the daily duties we all have.

    i would have liked to see more than one team candidating. Again, I agree we community members must become more active to thrive the project.

    Best regards,
    Mario Calderon

     
  • nwessel
    nwessel
    2012-11-13

    Dear Community,

    ballots have been closed. Here are the results:

    Total Votes: 40
    Yes (Y) 27 67.50%
    No (N) 10 25.00%
    Abstain (A) 3 7.50%

    The following CC Team has been approved by more than 50% of the citizens:
    Karsten Thiemann
    Mario Calderon
    Ramiro Vergara
    Norbert Wessel
    Ricardo Santana

    Best regards,
    Norbert

     
  • xolali
    xolali
    2012-11-15

    Hello Norbert,
    How can you be a player and referee at the same time. Run for election, be the electoral commissioner and declare results. I guess no one expects you to get a bad result anyway.
    As Fina rightly pointed out, i thought it will be a smart thing to use this opportunity to build bridges in the community and not use it to further deepen the crisis here.

    xolali

     
  • RAM
    RAM
    2012-11-15

    Hi Xolali,

    It's So-Called Democracy ;)

    Raouf

     
  • Mario Calderon
    Mario Calderon
    2012-11-18

    hi Xolali,
    I think it is always the right time to improve.

    If you know the way the community is organized, you surely have ideas how to improve.  You can put forward an amendment and let the community vote on it.  If your suggestions are sensible, I don't see a reason why they shouldn't be voted and accepted.

    Best regards,
    Mario Calderon

     
  • xolali
    xolali
    2012-11-21

    Hi Mario,
    Thanks for your insight. You might be living in a different world, but its good to know that you think all the issues that have been raised here and in other threads which have been met with silence and not been acted upon were not SENSIBLE.  That community voice that was not accepted was senseless.
    And that these obvious violations and aberrations of community trust is SENSIBLE

    Best Regards
    xolali

     
  • Colin Rooney
    Colin Rooney
    2012-11-22

    I think if people put as much effort into contributing as they do complaining we'd all be better served.

    The CC is not that important.  The Technical & Functional teams are the heart of the project and they are open to all, but it seems those doing the complaining do not wish to engage and actually help push the project forward.  Maybe you should do more contributing and less arguing?

    colin

     
  • Paul Aviles
    Paul Aviles
    2012-11-22

    But Colin come on, that requires real work, effort and structure. Where is the fun in that?

    Happy Thanksgiving!

    Paul

     
  • FINA PM
    FINA PM
    2012-11-23

    It is a democracy. .  I respect   the results and will do my best for cohabitation … sometimes will have a critical comments - sorry for that… this is a democracy  and this is to make our team and product (adempiere) stronger . Be sure: in the war with  competitors I am the best solder and best friend who does not remember about internal discussions and elections. 

    So what is next Dear CC?  Do you have some plans/ strategy?

    I would suggest following : 
    1)  Update SF project to Alliure  (easy and fast) ;
    2)  Collect and discuss different Dev Plans ;  Are you going to have at least 1 release  during the year ?
    3)  Please let us know about Adempiere ~ iDeMpiere , I saw many good ideas in iDempiere.
    4)  Do you have any financial plans / sources how to support community ?

    Thanks

    fina

     
  • Hi,

    I would suggest following :
    1) Update SF project to Alliure (easy and fast) ;
    2) Collect and discuss different Dev Plans ; Are you going to have at least 1 release during the year ?
    3) Please let us know about Adempiere ~ iDeMpiere , I saw many good ideas in iDempiere.
    4) Do you have any financial plans / sources how to support community ?

    Really, not even one of these items is the CC's business. Why is it so hard to simply read the wiki page at http://www.adempiere.com/Community_Governance ? The link has already been posted in this very thread.

    Btw:

    1) Update SF project to Alliure (easy and fast) ;

    I checked some time ago and at that time it didn't strike me as "easy and fast". But it would be great if you could take this into your hands and push it forward.

    Best regards
    Tobi

    PS: sorry metas-team, i should be doing different things right now :-(

     
  • xolali
    xolali
    2012-11-23

    Hi,
    Paul, Colin
    Yeah, real work requires effort but you'll agree with me that without good working community structures contributors are discouraged. Our key contributors have been sidelined, how can others come

    on board. You'll take their work and call them "mad" later. Do you see anyone contributing anything around here these days, that should make you reflect. A bigger community is better than any sub

    community or any commercial interest. They'll be a better product when more people contribute.
    We need fairness, transparency, accountability from those who have taken power.

    Tobi,
    Am surprised you keep going on and on about CC duties. Fina has raised important questions which aren't "senseless". Its obvious we need visionary leadership with plans/strategy. A favorable answer

    from CC would have been a good way to start mending the community. That governance thing isn't working and is only killing the project.We need a team that can answer the above questions raised by

    Fina. A plan, a road map, a vision, a strategy.
    Openbravo is now way ahead, i guess its in some peoples interest to kill the community spirit. so.. pls come again..

      2) Collect and discuss different Dev Plans ; Are you going to have at least 1 release during the year ?
      3) Please let us know about Adempiere ~ iDeMpiere , I saw many good ideas in iDempiere.
      4) Do you have any financial plans / sources how to support community ?"

    Xolali

     
  • Mark Ostermann
    Mark Ostermann
    2012-11-23

    Hello all.

    2) Collect and discuss different Dev Plans ; Are you going to have at least 1 release during the year ?

    Good point. Let's setup this as agenda for a Meeting of Funtional-/ Technical Team (which are a bunch of volunteers) and don't have to be voted.
    @Xolali, sorry that I am not aware what kind of expertise you have, but I think it would be good to let us all know what kind of functional-/ technical contributions (or other contributions) you have done in the past for the ADempiere Community, then it would be easier for the Teams to invite you (again) to take part (although no invitations are needed). We definitly need more volunteers for technical and functional improvements and code integrations, I fully agree.

    3) Please let us know about Adempiere ~ iDeMpiere , I saw many good ideas in iDempiere.

    A few months ago there was a heavy Discussion about integrating work from an iDempiere Developer into ADempiere. To keep it short: The End of the Discussion was, that no code from this Developer will be taken into ADempiere anymore (Decision voted by Functional-/ Technical Teams). Further on as I know is, that iDempiere has forked from ADempiere, so I don't see any need to change this. My opinion.

    4) Do you have any financial plans / sources how to support community ?"

    In the last years ADeV has been funding/ supporting our ADempiere community in different occasions with the worth of aprox 25.000 Euro. These occasions are for example:

    * ADempiere Conference 2009 in Berlin, including Flights and Hotel for some Community Members
    * Funding of PMC Head in 2010 for 6 months (3000 Euro)
    * ADempiere Conference 2011 in Berlin
    * Different Trade Fair and other occasions in Essen, Hannover, Berlin
    * Providing infrastructure for our community Wiki adempiere.com and Software Development Infrastructure (400 Euro/ month)

    The spendings done by ADeV has been gathered from supporting ADeV members which are all members of ADempiere Community. But definitly, this amount of money can easily be improved by having more supporting members.
    @ Xolali, pls. feel free if you would like to also support the community by money.

    Have a nice weekend everybody.

    Greetings from Sankt Augustin.
    Mark
    __________
    just an ADempiere citizen, and ADempiere Functional Team member, and active ADempiere e.V. Member and …
    … i'm earning my living with ADempiere labour

     
  • FINA PM
    FINA PM
    2012-11-23

    Tobi , Please accept my apologies…  
    Last time I visited  adempiere.com was  2 years ago.  I found this web site useless - tons of pages are published in non structured way.  I checked the link you provided … indeed it is not CC business….  but web site is same mess.  So instead of spending time on that may  I have a question: who and how is creating the policy? where is  resources for functional and technical teams?  and how to discuss with them all these issues? Through open forums (like this?) Or we can have a regular conference calls like other projects have?  I understand the transparency  requirements but nobody doing door with glasses in toilet to be a transparent , right ?

    Who is financing Dev (technical) team?  Is funding enough. Who is controlling how Technical team is delivering?

    regarding the SF  migration on allure . pls give me admin rights (temporarily) and I will do that. I will publish a plan . I have some recommendations how SF project stricture has to be changed.

     
  • Paul Aviles
    Paul Aviles
    2012-11-24

    xolali,

    "Yeah, real work requires effort but you'll agree with me that without good working community structures contributors are discouraged. Our key contributors have been sidelined, how can others come on board."

    Are you speaking on other’s behalf or about you?  I really hope you are referring to you and if so who is stopping you?

    Have an idea how to help? Then be concrete and do so…

     
  • xolali
    xolali
    2012-11-24

    Hi,
    Paul,
    Thanks for your thoughts. Am simply echoing the thoughts of the silent majority in this community whose vote was disregarded one year ago. Not becasue i support opinions of Carlos Ruiz and Red1 but that i've seen a working communit before. I've seen adempiere from the first release through ver3.3.0 and ver 3.6.0 LTS. I've seen how difficult and buggy it was and how developers like Heng Sin, Carlos,Trifon and Teo worked hard to fix things. I saw the fights and the blood and the special interests but somehow the product became better anyways. I know in the beginning some paying compiere partners did not approve of what adempiere was doing and posted that openly in compiere forums but now they are here and we are all enjoying the fruits of that "rebelion". I saw the beginnings to the webui initially contributed by posterita and how Low Heng Sin and Carlos worked hard to make it production ready so that today adempiere is usable in my organisation and many more. I saw fixed assets from Robert Klein, and 2pack from Robert Klein and how it was stabilized again by Low Heng Sin. Marco LOMBARDO (ooo my goodness) and then Trifon worked on AD2XML, XML2AD. Compilo and the ComXe joined adempiere to make it better but today we ban iDempiere.
    Bahman and Kontro fixed a big security hole for all of us (where were the commercial interests of today, they didnt have a clue). Karsten(i raise my hat for a true developer), contributed migration scripts and database comparator, victor came with payroll and manufacturing, others. There are other adempiere heroes like Stefan Kuthan, deathmeat (ooo my goodness, the dark coder from hell) but i won’t remember all of them off the top of my head. There has been great contributions from Goanookie, Colin and Mario with documentation and from other people… maybe i should go back in time and write a better account…
    Those were the days when reading the forums about TANG(The Adempiere Next Generation) was a source of idealism but today iDempiere is making that happen but some "central government" has decided in secret without approval from community that no code copying, no integration, no opening up. This increasing marginalization was never the ethos of adempiere (to fulfil…), by those who founded it.
    Those were the days the trackers and bug fixing was alive and there was bug fixng day. The chat meetings were alive, although quite messy it was alive. There was a PUBLISHED plan, road map etc.
    If you look at TANG and the original adempiere road map
    http://www.adempiere.com/Road_Map
    http://www.adempiere.com/The_Adempiere_Next_Generation_%28TANG%29
    thats what the guys at iDempiere are continuing.
    Well, my motivation is simple, adempiere today is not working with a true FOSS spirit. Its the reason why other compiere forks like OpenXpertya, KnowledgeBlue, Mayking have died.
    We have to work to attract developers that will make it TANG(The Adempiere Next Generation ), Trifon, Low, Carlos, Victor etc. We need to talk and resolve differences…We have to co exist and not seek to take over and dominate a community. You speak about contribution as if you are sincere about what people bring on board, recently the following was contributed http://www.adempiere.com/Document_Sequence_by_Org .But even some contributions are greeted with silence and there is no indication to integrate others. We had a contribution to fix the forms the way compiere has done it but the silence in this community is not encouraging.

    Sorry for the long post but Fina is raising some important issues and CC is not giving good response. Now that Fina is asking for admin rights to do an upgrade that is in the interest of the project and the community, lets see if "central government" will disregard it.
    So yes, am speaking on behalf of all the developers who have not been treated well here, who have been hurt by people’s actions and inactions. It’s also interesting how people are now espousing meritocracy, show me what you've done before you air your views (where is Carlos). I agree with meritocracy, that is why those who contribute most to the code base should be sitting at the top not commercial interests.

    Best regards
    Am off for Saturday tennis

     
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