> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: dman [mailto:dsh8290@...]
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. November 2001 16:18
> An: jython-users@...
> Betreff: Re: [Jython-users] jythonc not working -- solved, but =
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2001 at 07:45:01AM +0100, Humbel Otmar wrote:
> | [ Arno.Schmidmeier / dman ]
> | > | The problem is simply:
> | > | You write some lines of code with your favourite editor, on=20
> | > plattform A, the
> | > | file gets stored as ascii + some local code enhancements.
> | > | Then you transfer the files to a different=20
> plattform/mashine with a
> | > | different codeset.
> | > | In the best case the names of variables, etc. changed quite=20
> | > dramatically in
> | > | the rest, just forget the result.
> | That's exactly my experience.=20
> | Please also consider file names with special characters - shudder.
> | Only a small example: How many times has a blank in a=20
> windows file name
> | broken up a *nix shell command of yours ?
> That happens sometimes, but only if the app or script doesn't use
> proper quoting techniques to guard against that (and similar things =
> java class files like to have $ in their name, but that is also a
> shell metacharacter).
and also a valid ASCII-Character.
However I vote against using $ in variable/class/package names, because =
might cause problems with third party tools, e.g. I have some OODBMSes =
> | And there is another point: readability/maintainability. We=20
> have here a
> | development team of people with various mother languages (in
> | alphabetical order and hopefully spelled correctly): Dutch, =
> | French, German, Italian, Slavish, Swiss German, Turkish,=20
> and maybe even
> | more.
> | If we would allow localized characters in source code, the=20
> chance would
> | be high that poeple choose variable names in their mother=20
> language. The
> | rest you can imagine.
> I would expect that a multi-lingual development group would choose a
> common language to code in, though for single-use throw away scripts,
> or for students (or non-students) who want to begin programming it
> could be helpful to use the native tongue.
As a native german, I have never been in the need to use=20
these special characters, inside of the algorithm/code.
> | > Certainly if two processes try and use different encodings for =
> | > same file, it won't work. That's what happened to me=20
> with jythonc --
> | > it was encoded in latin1 (though only a single character=20
> in a comment
> | > was affect) but jython (java) was trying to read it as utf-8.
> | >=20
> | > The developer's editors and environment must all be set=20
> to the correct
> | > encoding. PEP 263 addresses that as far as the interpreter is
> | > concerned. It is up to the developers to configure their editor
> | > appropriately.
> | Beside the fact that there are systems where you simply=20
> cannot configure
> | your editor, I think it is a matter of lowest common=20
> denominator, for
> | the reasons above.
> I understand what you are saying, though if I generalize it we should
> never make progress because something already (incompatibly) exists.
> I disagree with the view that we should not make progress (moving to
> unicode, for example) just because some systems are incapable of
> coping with it. IMO those systems should be fixed instead.
It is very fine to have source-code files stored in Unicode,=20
but it is not ok to have non ASCII-Characters in variables, etc.
You can start to argue about values inside a string constant and =
(I thik it *might* be ok there), but not in the actual program!!!!!
> If native alphabets are allowed in identifiers, that doesn't prevent
> you from exclusively using US-ASCII charaters. As I alluded to in my
> "dumb american" comment, I only know English. Hence I will only be
> using US-ASCII characters regardless of the outcome. Interestingly
> enough, java allows other characters (umlauts, etc) in identifiers. =
> recently (just yesterday) got some source code that used such
> characters in it. My system (the one at work) was not correctly set
> up for utf-8 so many characters were turned into "?". That didn't
> work too well. When I fixed my environment it looked much better =
> If the people whose language(s) contain non-US-ASCII characters don't
> want those characters allowed in identifiers, then I have no problem
> with it. I just thought it seemed a bit elitist (from an american
> perspective anyways) to only allow US-ASCII characters.
It is the same like spaces in filenames, how many shell scripts have =
The little loss of convenience, pays in the long term very, very much.
> It took the computational power of three Commodore 64s to fly=20
> to the moon.
> It takes at least a 486 to run Windows 95.
> Something is wrong here.
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