FlightGear - Flight Simulator

Hi Dene,

Opinions may vary greatly, but I'd pick a 1Ghz cpu as my absolute 
minium.  I would think that these days you could get something in the 
2Ghz range for pretty cheap ... more is always better if you can afford it.

512Mb video ram may be slightly overkill ... if you are buying a new 
card, I would think that anything in the 128Mb - 256Mb range should do 
... but as is usually the case with computeres, more is often better if 
you can afford it. :-)

Win98 is extremely old.  Most people these days are running Windows XP 
and have been for several years. :-)  Some of your problems may be due 
to an extremely out of date operating system?

Regards,

Curt.


dene maxwell wrote:

> Hi all,
> I have approval from "she that must be obeyed" to get a dedicated FG 
> PC. I'm in the process of finishing the spec to give to my selected PC 
> builder. I would appreciate your guys comment on it's suitability for 
> FG 099. I intend running Win 98se as my primary OS but as can be seen 
> have allowed enough room on the system partition for dual boot should 
> I choose (but that's a different topic)
>
> Ø    Motherboard
>   §    PIII or P4
>   §    500Mhz + processor speed
>   §    512Mbytes system RAM plus
>   §    AGP or PCI-E slot for video card
> Ø    Video
>   §    512Mbyte Nvidia graphics card (interface to suit m/board)
> Ø    Storage
>   §    40Gbyte plus 7200rpm HDD configured as 10/15/15 partitions 
> (System/Program/Data)
>   §    at least 40x CD-ROM
>   §    FDD
> Ø    Interfaces
>   §    100/10BaseT NIC     ( so I can access downloads on the other 
> pcs and print to a network printer)
>   §    PS2 Mouse port
>   §    PS2 Keyboard port
>   §    at least one USB port
> Ø    Miscellaneous
>   §    2 way- Keyboard/Mouse/Screen switch    (make best use of 
> limited space and I won't be flying while editing etc.)
>   §    16 bit sound card with speakers (lowest spec available is OK)
>
>
> Cheers
> Dene
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Check out the latest video  @  http://xtra.co.nz/streaming
>
>
>
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-- 
Curtis Olson        http://www.flightgear.org/~curt
HumanFIRST Program  http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/
FlightGear Project  http://www.flightgear.org
Unique text:        2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: flightgear-users-admin@...
> [mailto:flightgear-users-admin@...] On=20
> Behalf Of dene maxwell
> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 10:07 PM
> To: Flightgear-users@...
> Subject: [Flightgear-users] Optimum Hardware Platform.
>=20
> Hi all,
> I have approval from "she that must be obeyed" to get a=20
> dedicated FG PC. I'm in the process of finishing the spec to=20
> give to my selected PC builder. I would appreciate your guys=20
> comment on it's suitability for FG 099. I intend running Win=20
> 98se as my primary OS but as can be seen have allowed enough=20
> room on the system partition for dual boot should I choose=20
> (but that's a different topic)
>=20
> =D8	Motherboard
>    =A7	PIII or P4
>    =A7	500Mhz + processor speed
>    =A7	512Mbytes system RAM plus
>    =A7	AGP or PCI-E slot for video card
> =D8	Video
>    =A7	512Mbyte Nvidia graphics card (interface to suit m/board)
> =D8	Storage
>    =A7	40Gbyte plus 7200rpm HDD configured as 10/15/15 partitions=20
> (System/Program/Data)
>    =A7	at least 40x CD-ROM
>    =A7	FDD
> =D8	Interfaces
>    =A7	100/10BaseT NIC	 ( so I can access downloads on the=20
> other pcs and print=20
> to a network printer)
>    =A7	PS2 Mouse port
>    =A7	PS2 Keyboard port
>    =A7	at least one USB port
> =D8	Miscellaneous
>    =A7	2 way- Keyboard/Mouse/Screen switch	(make best use=20
> of limited space and=20
> I won't be flying while editing etc.)
>    =A7	16 bit sound card with speakers (lowest spec available is OK)
>=20
>=20
> Cheers
> Dene
>=20


I'll let everyone else tell you about how you should be using some other =
OS,
other hardware, or whatever. Let me say a word about KVM
(keyboard/video/mouse) switches. IOGEAR. They have a two-computer set-up
where you press the SCROLL LOCK button twice quickly and it switches to =
the
other computer. I use two computers at home, and when I'm not at home, I
find myself hitting SCROLL LOCK all the time, and there is no second
computer. It makes switching to the other computer VERY easy.

I'm not sure about combining two speaker outputs into one set of =
speakers.
Don't know if one would feedback into the other computer and cause a
problem, so I don't do it. Anyone else do this?

Bill

> > Ø	Miscellaneous
> >    §	2 way- Keyboard/Mouse/Screen switch	(make best use
> > of limited space and
> > I won't be flying while editing etc.)
> >    §	16 bit sound card with speakers (lowest spec available is OK)
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> > Dene
> >
>
>
>I'll let everyone else tell you about how you should be using some other 
>OS,
>other hardware, or whatever. Let me say a word about KVM
>(keyboard/video/mouse) switches. IOGEAR. They have a two-computer set-up
>where you press the SCROLL LOCK button twice quickly and it switches to the
>other computer. I use two computers at home, and when I'm not at home, I
>find myself hitting SCROLL LOCK all the time, and there is no second
>computer. It makes switching to the other computer VERY easy.
>
>I'm not sure about combining two speaker outputs into one set of speakers.
>Don't know if one would feedback into the other computer and cause a
>problem, so I don't do it. Anyone else do this?
>
>Bill
>

Hi Bill,

I would do away with the broken speakers on my downloading/editing Pc as it 
doesn't need sound only the FG PC would have sound (even though that 
annoying *CRASH* when the 'copter goes down will be turned down :-)

Keyboard switchers sound neat, at this stage I will see what the PC Builder 
proposes but feel I could live with "flicking the switch"

Dene

_________________________________________________________________
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>Hi Dene,
>
>Opinions may vary greatly, but I'd pick a 1Ghz cpu as my absolute minium.  
>I would think that these days you could get something in the 2Ghz range for 
>pretty cheap ... more is always better if you can afford it.
>
>512Mb video ram may be slightly overkill ... if you are buying a new card, 
>I would think that anything in the 128Mb - 256Mb range should do ... but as 
>is usually the case with computeres, more is often better if you can afford 
>it. :-)
>
>Win98 is extremely old.  Most people these days are running Windows XP and 
>have been for several years. :-)  Some of your problems may be due to an 
>extremely out of date operating system?
>
>Regards,
>
>Curt.
>

Hi Curt
First, I have got the impression that high end video specs can make up for 
low-med CPU spec. Maybe I went to far, 1Ghz CPU/128Mbyte plus Video Ram a 
good compromise?

I have budgeted on a 40% CPU/ 40% Video / 10% Other price break down..I 
realise this will depend on local pricing structures but I can get a high 
end P3 (0.75 - 1.0 Ghz P3) for $NZ300 and was budgeting on about the same 
for a video card. I can get a GeForce 6600LE PCI-E 256MB DDR3 +DVI+TV for 
$NZ160 or a GeForce 6800 PCI-E 128MB DDR +DVI+TV for $NZ290.

I was leaning towards the 6600LE 256Mbyte ram expanded to 512 if possible 
rather than having to settle for the 6800 with only 128Mbyte.

the switcher and speakers will most probably cost another $NZ100

Cheers
Dene

>
>dene maxwell wrote:
>
>>Hi all,
>>I have approval from "she that must be obeyed" to get a dedicated FG PC. 
>>I'm in the process of finishing the spec to give to my selected PC 
>>builder. I would appreciate your guys comment on it's suitability for FG 
>>099. I intend running Win 98se as my primary OS but as can be seen have 
>>allowed enough room on the system partition for dual boot should I choose 
>>(but that's a different topic)
>>
>>Ø    Motherboard
>>   §    PIII or P4
>>   §    500Mhz + processor speed
>>   §    512Mbytes system RAM plus
>>   §    AGP or PCI-E slot for video card
>>Ø    Video
>>   §    512Mbyte Nvidia graphics card (interface to suit m/board)
>>Ø    Storage
>>   §    40Gbyte plus 7200rpm HDD configured as 10/15/15 partitions 
>>(System/Program/Data)
>>   §    at least 40x CD-ROM
>>   §    FDD
>>Ø    Interfaces
>>   §    100/10BaseT NIC     ( so I can access downloads on the other pcs 
>>and print to a network printer)
>>   §    PS2 Mouse port
>>   §    PS2 Keyboard port
>>   §    at least one USB port
>>Ø    Miscellaneous
>>   §    2 way- Keyboard/Mouse/Screen switch    (make best use of limited 
>>space and I won't be flying while editing etc.)
>>   §    16 bit sound card with speakers (lowest spec available is OK)
>>
>>
>>Cheers
>>Dene
>>

_________________________________________________________________
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http://jetstream.xtra.co.nz/chm/0,,202853-1000,00.html

If you're going Windows go XP - I run Pro.  Win98SE is ancient and not 
supported so drivers for some of your hardware may be an issue.

Second, for XP go 256 meg of memory and if possible 512 meg.  

I'm partial to Nvidia cards so I like that choice <G>.  Why not the 6800 with 
more than 128?

On switchboxes avoid Belkin.  I'm not too wild about IOGear either but in the 
low cost end you don't have much choice.  I use Black Box gear when I can but 
that's expensive.


On Wednesday 28 December 2005 23:01, dene maxwell wrote:
> >Hi Dene,
> >

> >Opinions may vary greatly, but I'd pick a 1Ghz cpu as my absolute minium.
> >I would think that these days you could get something in the 2Ghz range
> > for pretty cheap ... more is always better if you can afford it.
> >
> >512Mb video ram may be slightly overkill ... if you are buying a new card,
> >I would think that anything in the 128Mb - 256Mb range should do ... but
> > as is usually the case with computeres, more is often better if you can
> > afford it. :-)
> >
> >Win98 is extremely old.  Most people these days are running Windows XP and
> >have been for several years. :-)  Some of your problems may be due to an
> >extremely out of date operating system?
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Curt.
>
> Hi Curt
> First, I have got the impression that high end video specs can make up for
> low-med CPU spec. Maybe I went to far, 1Ghz CPU/128Mbyte plus Video Ram a
> good compromise?
>
> I have budgeted on a 40% CPU/ 40% Video / 10% Other price break down..I
> realise this will depend on local pricing structures but I can get a high
> end P3 (0.75 - 1.0 Ghz P3) for $NZ300 and was budgeting on about the same
> for a video card. I can get a GeForce 6600LE PCI-E 256MB DDR3 +DVI+TV for
> $NZ160 or a GeForce 6800 PCI-E 128MB DDR +DVI+TV for $NZ290.
>
> I was leaning towards the 6600LE 256Mbyte ram expanded to 512 if possible
> rather than having to settle for the 6800 with only 128Mbyte.
>
> the switcher and speakers will most probably cost another $NZ100
>
> Cheers
> Dene

-- 

Brett I. Holcomb

Hi Brett
I don't have a Win Xp license available to me and OS software costs a 
fortune over here. I do have a 98se license though, comments noted though. 
Budget is limited so I reckon I'll have to start with 98se.

The KVM switches are TRENDnet brand...any experience?

6800 with 256Mbyte.... would mean the CPU budget would shrink to a P3, most 
probably without a PCI-E port.

Its all trade offs, hence asking for opinions on the balance rather than 
"how to make a Rolls Royce"

Dene

>From: "Brett I. Holcomb" <brettholcomb@...>
>Reply-To: flightgear-users@...
>To: flightgear-users@...
>Subject: Re: [Flightgear-users] Optimum Hardware Platform.
>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 23:07:02 -0500
>
>If you're going Windows go XP - I run Pro.  Win98SE is ancient and not
>supported so drivers for some of your hardware may be an issue.
>
>Second, for XP go 256 meg of memory and if possible 512 meg.
>
>I'm partial to Nvidia cards so I like that choice <G>.  Why not the 6800 
>with
>more than 128?
>
>On switchboxes avoid Belkin.  I'm not too wild about IOGear either but in 
>the
>low cost end you don't have much choice.  I use Black Box gear when I can 
>but
>that's expensive.
>
>
>On Wednesday 28 December 2005 23:01, dene maxwell wrote:
> > >Hi Dene,
> > >
>
> > >Opinions may vary greatly, but I'd pick a 1Ghz cpu as my absolute 
>minium.
> > >I would think that these days you could get something in the 2Ghz range
> > > for pretty cheap ... more is always better if you can afford it.
> > >
> > >512Mb video ram may be slightly overkill ... if you are buying a new 
>card,
> > >I would think that anything in the 128Mb - 256Mb range should do ... 
>but
> > > as is usually the case with computeres, more is often better if you 
>can
> > > afford it. :-)
> > >
> > >Win98 is extremely old.  Most people these days are running Windows XP 
>and
> > >have been for several years. :-)  Some of your problems may be due to 
>an
> > >extremely out of date operating system?
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >
> > >Curt.
> >
> > Hi Curt
> > First, I have got the impression that high end video specs can make up 
>for
> > low-med CPU spec. Maybe I went to far, 1Ghz CPU/128Mbyte plus Video Ram 
>a
> > good compromise?
> >
> > I have budgeted on a 40% CPU/ 40% Video / 10% Other price break down..I
> > realise this will depend on local pricing structures but I can get a 
>high
> > end P3 (0.75 - 1.0 Ghz P3) for $NZ300 and was budgeting on about the 
>same
> > for a video card. I can get a GeForce 6600LE PCI-E 256MB DDR3 +DVI+TV 
>for
> > $NZ160 or a GeForce 6800 PCI-E 128MB DDR +DVI+TV for $NZ290.
> >
> > I was leaning towards the 6600LE 256Mbyte ram expanded to 512 if 
>possible
> > rather than having to settle for the 6800 with only 128Mbyte.
> >
> > the switcher and speakers will most probably cost another $NZ100
> >
> > Cheers
> > Dene
>
>--
>
>Brett I. Holcomb
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
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Why not Linux? You'll get a thinner OS and better scheduling, leaving
you with more resources and less jitter when running FG. Make sure
though that all your hardware is supported (but as you're building
it from the scratch, just select the right components). Wouldn't
get you into support worries either (it may well happen that some
of the newer hardware won't be supported by your older Windows).

See also the "Linux Hardware HOWTO" for a compatibility sheet.

Vassilii

>Why not Linux? You'll get a thinner OS and better scheduling, leaving
>you with more resources and less jitter when running FG. Make sure
>though that all your hardware is supported (but as you're building
>it from the scratch, just select the right components). Wouldn't
>get you into support worries either (it may well happen that some
>of the newer hardware won't be supported by your older Windows).
>
>See also the "Linux Hardware HOWTO" for a compatibility sheet.
>
>Vassilii
>
what brand of Linux?... I looked at a copy of  Redhat Linux in the local 
computer shop and it cost $NZ129.

I wouldn't mind having dual boot with linux so I could learn linux. But even 
linux costs.

I know Windows 98 se better than any other OS, so can address and resolve OS 
issues quickly and efficiently.

Win XP has been suggested, for two reasons I am reluctant to go to XP; it 
costs heaps and unlike XP I can get 98se to do most things I want without 
un-solicited "wizards" etc popping up giving me all the reasons why it will 
make it difficult for me to do what I want it to do.

I don't really wanna get in to an OS discussion. Suffice to say W 98 se is 
my chosen OS because I have a license and it will have minimal impact on an 
upgrade budget while giving a familiar environment. If I move to a different 
OS, then getting drive sharing, printing to a network printer etc become 
learning curves instead of "do it in my sleep" actions.

Dene

_________________________________________________________________
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On Thursday 29 December 2005 09:10, dene maxwell wrote:
> >Why not Linux? You'll get a thinner OS and better scheduling, leaving
> >you with more resources and less jitter when running FG. Make sure
> >though that all your hardware is supported (but as you're building
> >it from the scratch, just select the right components). Wouldn't
> >get you into support worries either (it may well happen that some
> >of the newer hardware won't be supported by your older Windows).
> >
> >See also the "Linux Hardware HOWTO" for a compatibility sheet.
> >
> >Vassilii
>
> what brand of Linux?... I looked at a copy of  Redhat Linux in the local
> computer shop and it cost $NZ129.
>

But the advantage is that you can also download any linux distribution legally 
for free. Personally, I've been using Suse for quite some time now and I'm 
really happy with it. Other people may prefer other distributions. 

Since you are going to build a computer specifically for FlightGear, I would 
definitely explore the linux option. 

Cheers,
Durk

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

dene maxwell schrieb:
> I intend running Win 98se as my primary OS but as can be seen have
> allowed enough room on the system partition for dual boot should I
> choose (but that's a different topic)

As others wrote: use Linux. You can download it legally for free (e.g.
Debian, OpenSuse and Fedora (=3D RedHat)).
Oh, and having a Win98 licence allows you to use it on only one
computer. You musn't run it on two computers at the same time.
(And if you go towards Windows you should definitely use XP. You might
get it quite cheap whe you are buying the new computer)

> =D8    Motherboard
>   =A7    PIII or P4
>   =A7    500Mhz + processor speed

That look ancient to me. If you like Intel you need IMHO at least a P4 2
GHz.
But you might get it cheaper and faster by taking an AMD Athlon. Also 2
GHz min I recon.

>   =A7    512Mbytes system RAM plus

512 MB is a good start. More doesn't hurt - but try to get a faster
processor first (RAM can easily extended later)

>   =A7    AGP or PCI-E slot for video card
> =D8    Video
>   =A7    512Mbyte Nvidia graphics card (interface to suit m/board)
> =D8    Storage

If you've got the choice: PCI-E.
512 MB on the Graphics Card are overkill. Take 128 - 256 as Curt wrote.
It's more important to look for the latest features in the shaders
(version 3.0). We won't use them yet, but who knows. An easy guide it to
look for DirectX 9.0c compatability. (And don't let yourself get fooled
by nVidia TurboCache cards. Avoid them. The other nVidias are great -
I'd prefer them to ATi)

>   =A7    40Gbyte plus 7200rpm HDD configured as 10/15/15 partitions
> (System/Program/Data)

OK, but also a bit ancient. 80 GB shouldn't cost much more these days

> [...]

rest looks ok.


You should note that the CPU and the GPU are important. Making one too
slow it will also slow down the other. (The FDM can't be updated when
the CPU waits for the GPU. The graphics can't be drawn when the CPU
waits for the data)

CU,
Christian



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> > what brand of Linux?... I looked at a copy of  Redhat Linux in the local
> > computer shop and it cost $NZ129.

I would recommend Debian due to the ease of installation of the NV
accelerated drivers there (with the module-assistant utility),
from what I used it is the most user-friendly in the context
of FlightGear development/use (compared to Mandrake/Redhat/Fedora/Gentoo).
Gentoo is the best wrt flexibility, but if you want to start with smth
quickly w/o too much effort, it's not for you. No experience with SUSE
recent distros administration here, as you see in the above list :)
You can download and install Linux for free, absolutely legally.
However, some of the stores sell some linux distributions bundled
with support packages (e.g., some company guarantees you support of the
computer installation through the 1st month). I've got no experience
with this option myself.

Drive sharing for a local network windows users is going to be easy, just
install the samba-server package and follow the docs. There will be some
learning for sure, but since most of the developers are using Linux,
you'll have better support chances. Also, there are excellent mailing
list/irc support from virtually all the distributions' community.

> Since you are going to build a computer specifically for FlightGear, I would
> definitely explore the linux option.

Seconded. Also, if you are totally lost where to look for help, ask
here on the flightgear-users and people will probably either help
right away or direct you to a more appropriate resource.

Finally, if somebody is BUILDING a custom workstation for you, try
asking them if they've got a Linux installation to put on it. Most
hardware folks I know will pre-install linux on your computer at
no extra cost. Furthermore, if you say you want linux compatibility
right away, this will ensure all the hardware is supported if whoever
is building you the workstation has got even minimal Linux experience.

HTH,
Vassilii

> >   =A7    40Gbyte plus 7200rpm HDD configured as 10/15/15 partitions
> > (System/Program/Data)
>
> OK, but also a bit ancient. 80 GB shouldn't cost much more these days
>
OTOH, for a Linux dedicated FG station, 40Gb will be more than enough.

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 16:06:42 +1300
"dene maxwell" <dene_maxwell@...> wrote:

Hi Dene,

FWIW I run fg (always cvs), on this ageing P3 box (under
Slackware linux). It is in fact a dual 1ghz P3 smp, but as I
understand it (and observation of cpu usage bears it out),
fg uses the second processor only when loading scenery
tiles and I don't think its presence makes much difference
to my overall experience.

For the past couple of years I used a GeForce4 MX 440 /
64MB. The mobo ties me to AGP 2x.

I don't have a basis of comparison with a range of hardware
(and fg seems no longer to offer the option of displaying
fps), but the sim always ran pretty smoothly - though it
helped to if I disabled specular highlights. Only on the
approach to one or two dense areas of scenery eg (San
Francisco), was I aware of things slowing down a little.

Due to a possible fault developing on the GeForce4 I just
changed to a GF FX 5500 / 256MB.  I have not experimented
much as yet, but my initial feeling is that I am not seeing
any significant improvement over the old card so far as fg
is concerned.

Regards,

Geoff

		
___________________________________________________________ 
Yahoo! Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Vassilii Khachaturov schrieb:
>>>     40Gbyte plus 7200rpm HDD configured as 10/15/15 partitions
>>>(System/Program/Data)
>>
>>OK, but also a bit ancient. 80 GB shouldn't cost much more these days
>>
> 
> OTOH, for a Linux dedicated FG station, 40Gb will be more than enough.

Yes. But when you buy a new HDD you should have a look at the cost/value
ratio as well.

A big distributor around here charges 46 - 49 Euro for a 40 GB. And the
80 GB are at 51 - 56 Euro.
So buying a new 40 GB would be a bit insane...

At 80 GB and above the HDD have a normal cost/value ratio, so going
bigger isn't necessary.

CU,
Christian

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I'm sorry if i'm not explaining myself sufficently.

I have a spare W 98 se licence from a retired PC. It suffered multiple 
failures when involved in an automobile accident. I still have the disks 
though and will be using them.

W 98 se WILL be my primary OS. a) I have a licence b) I'm familiar with W 98 
se and the issue is getting the best HARDWARE for FGv099. c) I don't want to 
have to learn a new OS at the moment. Learning to fly a helicopter is far 
more fun.

I have a limited amount of money for this new platform.

Yes, 80Gbyte is not 2x the price of a 40gbyte, but the extra 25% is money 
that I could spend on Video RAM etc.

Yes, P3 is ancient, but is it sufficient ? I want to be able to run FGv099 
at 30-60fps under 99% of scenarios, will a 1Ghz P3 do it?

I suspect that stressing this to my PC builder will remove the same "but if" 
factor from their build.
IE I have $NZ700. This is the minimum spec.....any left over money will be 
spent of these items in this order: Video processor, Video ram, CPU 
processor, System RAM, HDD speed, HDD size

cheers
Dene




>From: Vassilii Khachaturov <vassilii@...>
>Reply-To: flightgear-users@...
>To: flightgear-users@...
>Subject: Re: [Flightgear-users] Optimum Hardware Platform.
>Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 11:55:44 +0200 (IST)
>
> > > what brand of Linux?... I looked at a copy of  Redhat Linux in the 
>local
> > > computer shop and it cost $NZ129.
>
>I would recommend Debian due to the ease of installation of the NV
>accelerated drivers there (with the module-assistant utility),
>from what I used it is the most user-friendly in the context
>of FlightGear development/use (compared to Mandrake/Redhat/Fedora/Gentoo).
>Gentoo is the best wrt flexibility, but if you want to start with smth
>quickly w/o too much effort, it's not for you. No experience with SUSE
>recent distros administration here, as you see in the above list :)
>You can download and install Linux for free, absolutely legally.
>However, some of the stores sell some linux distributions bundled
>with support packages (e.g., some company guarantees you support of the
>computer installation through the 1st month). I've got no experience
>with this option myself.
>
>Drive sharing for a local network windows users is going to be easy, just
>install the samba-server package and follow the docs. There will be some
>learning for sure, but since most of the developers are using Linux,
>you'll have better support chances. Also, there are excellent mailing
>list/irc support from virtually all the distributions' community.
>
> > Since you are going to build a computer specifically for FlightGear, I 
>would
> > definitely explore the linux option.
>
>Seconded. Also, if you are totally lost where to look for help, ask
>here on the flightgear-users and people will probably either help
>right away or direct you to a more appropriate resource.
>
>Finally, if somebody is BUILDING a custom workstation for you, try
>asking them if they've got a Linux installation to put on it. Most
>hardware folks I know will pre-install linux on your computer at
>no extra cost. Furthermore, if you say you want linux compatibility
>right away, this will ensure all the hardware is supported if whoever
>is building you the workstation has got even minimal Linux experience.
>
>HTH,
>Vassilii
>
>
>
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dene maxwell schrieb:
> I'm sorry if i'm not explaining myself sufficently.
> 
> [...]

Ok, that makes more sense now.

> IE I have $NZ700. This is the minimum spec.....any left over money will
> be spent of these items in this order: Video processor, Video ram, CPU
> processor, System RAM, HDD speed, HDD size

I'd suggest a little reordering. The amount of video RAM isn't very
important for FGFS (as long as it's at least 64 MB or so). So I'd
exchange video RAM and processor speed.

When you are on a tight budget: have you thought of buying a used one
from eBay? At least in Germany you can get quita a bargain for used ones.

CU,
Christian

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Yes, I have considered both eBay and a local auction site TradeMe. New 
Zealand being a relatively smalll country (4 Million total population) and 
being 1500 NM from the nearest eBay site Ebay.au.com transport costs would 
be expensive. Even within NZ it would cost $NZ50 to get a system half the 
length of the country.

The local PC Builder also offers a 28 day warranty... not much but at least 
they build and test the complete system and warranty it.

Cheers
Dene


>From: Christian Mayer <mail@...>
>Reply-To: flightgear-users@...
>To: flightgear-users@...
>Subject: Re: [Flightgear-users] Optimum Hardware Platform.
>Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 12:41:08 +0100
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>dene maxwell schrieb:
> > I'm sorry if i'm not explaining myself sufficently.
> >
> > [...]
>
>Ok, that makes more sense now.
>
> > IE I have $NZ700. This is the minimum spec.....any left over money will
> > be spent of these items in this order: Video processor, Video ram, CPU
> > processor, System RAM, HDD speed, HDD size
>
>I'd suggest a little reordering. The amount of video RAM isn't very
>important for FGFS (as long as it's at least 64 MB or so). So I'd
>exchange video RAM and processor speed.
>
>When you are on a tight budget: have you thought of buying a used one
>from eBay? At least in Germany you can get quita a bargain for used ones.
>
>CU,
>Christian
>
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>=qY+T
>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
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>_______________________________________________
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>Flightgear-users@...
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On Thursday 29 December 2005 13:24, dene maxwell wrote:
> I suspect that stressing this to my PC builder will remove the same "but
> if" factor from their build.
> IE I have $NZ700. This is the minimum spec.....any left over money will be
> spent of these items in this order: Video processor, Video ram, CPU
> processor, System RAM, HDD speed, HDD size

Dene, it may be a good idea to shop around a bit first.
Also putting a PC together yourself is a lot of fun and saves some money too.

I don't live in New Zealand but I checked out some prices online and you can 
get a system with the following specs for under $NZ 700 :

- AMD Sempron 2400+ (1667MHz) Socket A 333MHz FSB 256KB Cache Boxed with 
Heatsink & Fan
- VIAKM400A Chipset motherboard, Socket A, 400MHz FSB, 2xDIMM, 1xAGP, 3xPCI, 
2xATA133, 6xUSB2, Onboard Graphics, Audio, LAN, Micro ATX
- 512MB DDR400
- HLC9632B Midi Tower Case 350W PSU Black ATX
- Hitachi 80GB 7200rpm ATA100 2 MB Cache
- Samsung 3.5" 1.44MB Floppy Disk Drive, Beige
- Pixelview GeForce 6600 256MB DDR 8x AGP Graphics Card

So now you have a fairly decent system with a very good video card, fast 
DDR400 RAM, a half decent processor and twice the amount of secondary storage 
space.

If you're an Intel fan then you'll have to get something a lot slower because 
of the price difference but I can guarentee you that a Sempron 2400+ will be 
a *lot* faster than PIII clocked at less that 1 GHz. Even the old, budget, 
AMD Durons gave the PIII's a run for their money.

Paul

On Thursday 29 Dec 2005 18:57, Paul Surgeon wrote:
> On Thursday 29 December 2005 13:24, dene maxwell wrote:
> > I suspect that stressing this to my PC builder will remove
> > the same "but if" factor from their build.
> > IE I have $NZ700. This is the minimum spec.....any left over
> > money will be spent of these items in this order: Video
> > processor, Video ram, CPU processor, System RAM, HDD speed,
> > HDD size
>
> Dene, it may be a good idea to shop around a bit first.
> Also putting a PC together yourself is a lot of fun and saves
> some money too.
>
> I don't live in New Zealand but I checked out some prices
> online and you can get a system with the following specs for
> under $NZ 700 :
>
> - AMD Sempron 2400+ (1667MHz) Socket A 333MHz FSB 256KB Cache
> Boxed with Heatsink & Fan
> - VIAKM400A Chipset motherboard, Socket A, 400MHz FSB, 2xDIMM,
> 1xAGP, 3xPCI, 2xATA133, 6xUSB2, Onboard Graphics, Audio, LAN,
> Micro ATX - 512MB DDR400
> - HLC9632B Midi Tower Case 350W PSU Black ATX
> - Hitachi 80GB 7200rpm ATA100 2 MB Cache
> - Samsung 3.5" 1.44MB Floppy Disk Drive, Beige
> - Pixelview GeForce 6600 256MB DDR 8x AGP Graphics Card
>
> So now you have a fairly decent system with a very good video
> card, fast DDR400 RAM, a half decent processor and twice the
> amount of secondary storage space.
>
> If you're an Intel fan then you'll have to get something a lot
> slower because of the price difference but I can guarentee you
> that a Sempron 2400+ will be a *lot* faster than PIII clocked
> at less that 1 GHz. Even the old, budget, AMD Durons gave the
> PIII's a run for their money.
>
> Paul

I would have to agree with Paul regarding choice of processor on 
your budget.  I run an old Athlon XP+ 1900 (1600MHz) and this  
has the same 256Kb cache as the Sempron.  I believe that in 
addition to the higher FSB speed, the Sempron has a few other 
improvements over my old cpu.  My video card is nVidia 6600 
based with 256 MB ram and at 1600x1200 I typically get between 
40-20 fps.  Unless you intend running at a lower screen res I 
wouldn't think about getting anything slower than the Sempron 
2400+.

I've had a _lot_ of problems with an ATI 9200 based card, not 
just with FG but also with other OGL apps, especially one that I 
beta test for, and even with the developers dealing directly 
with ATI those problems have still not been satisfactorily 
resolved.

No ATI discussions please.

LeeE

Hi Paul,
The only reason I've spec'd Intel is that I'm familiar with the processor 
set. ie what's crippled and what's not.

I am quite open to AMD processors or any others that maybe suggested as long 
as the recommendation is backed up by proven compatibility with FG.

I will amend my spec to include AMD Sempron processors, what would be the 
minimum model of sempron you would consider?
>
>If you're an Intel fan then you'll have to get something a lot slower 
>because
>of the price difference but I can guarentee you that a Sempron 2400+ will 
>be
>a *lot* faster than PIII clocked at less that 1 GHz. Even the old, budget,
>AMD Durons gave the PIII's a run for their money.
>
>Paul

As for building it myself, yes i'm sure a could bolt the bits together and 
have fun doing it. Prebuilt has the advantage that, from the right supplier, 
it's pretested for compatibility and conflicts and the bios is optimised for 
the hardware configuration.

Dene

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dene maxwell wrote:
> Hi Paul,
> The only reason I've spec'd Intel is that I'm familiar with the 
> processor set. ie what's crippled and what's not.
> 
> I am quite open to AMD processors or any others that maybe suggested as 
> long as the recommendation is backed up by proven compatibility with FG.
> 
> I will amend my spec to include AMD Sempron processors, what would be 
> the minimum model of sempron you would consider?
>>
>> If you're an Intel fan then you'll have to get something a lot slower 
>> because
>> of the price difference but I can guarentee you that a Sempron 2400+ 
>> will be
>> a *lot* faster than PIII clocked at less that 1 GHz. Even the old, 
>> budget,
>> AMD Durons gave the PIII's a run for their money.
>>
>> Paul
> 
> As for building it myself, yes i'm sure a could bolt the bits together 
> and have fun doing it. Prebuilt has the advantage that, from the right 
> supplier, it's pretested for compatibility and conflicts and the bios is 
> optimised for the hardware configuration.
> 
> Dene
> 
> _________________________________________________________________

If you ever had the displeasure of dealing with suppliers, you'd know 
most talk total tummy rot, so building it yourself isn't a bad idea, 
especially as the typical ignoramous will tell you that any problems 
were due to damage caused by Linux - I've had this and also read many 
such stories on the net. You can always get the latest BIOS and update 
it. Apart from some Winmodems there are no real hardware compatibility 
issues. Booting a Knoppix CD in any x86 box/laptop, you'll see what I 
mean and as a matter of fact Knoppix is well known for recovering files 
from trashed Windows boxes. I've also used it to troubleshoot a problem 
when Windows XP was unable to connect via a cable modem, knoppix booted 
up and was straight in, so I was able to get the setup details to cross 
check with XP. Just before Christmas I went with a relative to purchase 
a Packard Bell box based on low price with reasonable features and as it 
was for a TOTAL novice, I whipped the cables off the 80G XP HD, 
connected them up to a spare 80G I had, installed SuSE 10.0 and he is up 
using skype, kmail, surfing the net and listening to music on cable 
broadband shared with his daughter who uses XP and is racked with 
mal/spy/skunk-ware that gets through whatever defences you throw at it. 
Then there was another one I had to look at where Windows update failed, 
restored the files and left the box in a trashed state, needing a CD 
restore by me the fool left to do it.
Apologies for the digression, but Linux is pretty hardware agnostic on 
PC's (I do it all the time), Mac's, SPARC (done that), mainframes (done 
that) and lots more.
Regards
Sid.

-- 
Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot
Retired IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support 
Specialist, Cricket Coach
Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks