Guido van Robot

Forgot to attach it :-(


On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:30:41 +0100, Stas Z <staslinux@...> wrote:
> powermode WORKS !!! and more importantly, it works like it was intended.!!
> 
> Not with wxpython but with SDL wrapper called pygame.
> Makes sense when you think about it ;-)
> powermode is basically a tool to visualise the movements of Guido, so
> a SDL approach
> seems logical.
> 
> I've tried to follow the original concept as closely as possible, so
> it shouldn't be hard to
> follow when you understand worldDisplay.py and world.py.
> The only thing which might be odd is the "EventPump" object.
> It's just a call to the pygame event framework to get messages from X
> to SDL which runs
> in a separate thread.
> 
> It's of course a bit rough but everything works without all kinds of
> weird stuff.
> If you want to try it:
> 
> Make sure you have pygame installed along with it dependencies.
> You should install it from your distro, it can be difficult to get the
> dependencies right.
> 
> unpack the tarball which creates a directory called "spowermode" and
> go to that directory.
> Make sure your in the lessons directory and do
> "export PYTHONPATH=<name of the spowermode path>
> 
> Then do "python lesson1.py" or some other lesson.
> 
> Be aware that when there's a exception or if you stop the program with
> Ctrl-C you also
> have to kill the second thread from a xterm "kill -9 pid of lesson"
> 
> @Steve: Be glad I haven't accepted the wager, it seems I comply with
> the demands of your
> wager ;-)
> 
> Stas
> 
> --
> "Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual
>  who can labor in freedom."
> -Albert Einstein
> 


-- 
"Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual
 who can labor in freedom."
-Albert Einstein

--- Stas Z <staslinux@...> wrote:

> powermode WORKS !!! and more importantly, it works
> like it was intended.!!
> (...)
> @Steve: Be glad I haven't accepted the wager, it
> seems I comply with
> the demands of your
> wager ;-)
> 

This is great news!  It was a wager I would have been
happy to lose, but I'm glad I'm not out 100 Euros,
especially after all the money I spent in New York
City this weekend. :)




		
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 20:55:20 -0800 (PST), Steve Howell
<showell30@...> wrote:
>> > @Steve: Be glad I haven't accepted the wager, it
> > seems I comply with
> > the demands of your
> > wager ;-)
> >
> 
> This is great news!  It was a wager I would have been
> happy to lose, but I'm glad I'm not out 100 Euros,
> especially after all the money I spent in New York
> City this weekend. :)
So,.. while I spend the whole Sunday coding on (your) powermode,
you went out and came back (probably) with a hangover. ;-)

But serious, install pygame and try my "spowermode", it works great.
Also look at the speed! In eightQueens.py, Guido moves with such a
speed I think I have to compensate for the mass increase Guido will
experience :-)

-- 
"Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual
 who can labor in freedom."
-Albert Einstein

--- Stas Z <staslinux@...> wrote:

> On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 20:55:20 -0800 (PST), Steve
> Howell
> <showell30@...> wrote:
> >> > @Steve: Be glad I haven't accepted the wager,
> it
> > > seems I comply with
> > > the demands of your
> > > wager ;-)
> > >
> > 
> > This is great news!  It was a wager I would have
> been
> > happy to lose, but I'm glad I'm not out 100 Euros,
> > especially after all the money I spent in New York
> > City this weekend. :)
> So,.. while I spend the whole Sunday coding on
> (your) powermode,
> you went out and came back (probably) with a
> hangover. ;-)
> 

Heh.  It was a pretty exhausting weekend, indeed.

> But serious, install pygame and try my "spowermode",
> it works great.
> Also look at the speed! In eightQueens.py, Guido
> moves with such a
> speed I think I have to compensate for the mass
> increase Guido will
> experience :-)
> 

I'll definitely give it a spin.  Now that we have a
working power mode, our next step should be to write
some more power mode examples for study.  Also, we
need to get working on the curriculum.


		
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On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 05:48:15 -0800 (PST), Steve Howell
<showell30@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> > But serious, install pygame and try my "spowermode",
> > it works great.
> > Also look at the speed! In eightQueens.py, Guido
> > moves with such a
> > speed I think I have to compensate for the mass
> > increase Guido will
> > experience :-)
> >
> 
> I'll definitely give it a spin.  Now that we have a
> working power mode, our next step should be to write
> some more power mode examples for study.  Also, we
> need to get working on the curriculum.
> 
I will leave the lessons/examples part to you and Andre.
I'm currently cleaning up the Gvr-Testing tree and planning to
put my HvR (Hal van Robot) SDL approach in there.
When it's all working and we agree on the design we can move it over
to "GvR" or put it in a tree of itself.

I will then work with the GvR-Testing tree for HvR, so anyone can take
part in this SDL extravaganza :-)
BTW, check out the pygame website, it gives "documentation" a whole
new meaning.

Stas

-- 
"Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual
 who can labor in freedom."
-Albert Einstein

BTW, pygame/SDL runs on all major platforms without any problem.

Stas

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 15:10:16 +0100, Stas Z <staslinux@...> wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 05:48:15 -0800 (PST), Steve Howell
> 
> 
> <showell30@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > But serious, install pygame and try my "spowermode",
> > > it works great.
> > > Also look at the speed! In eightQueens.py, Guido
> > > moves with such a
> > > speed I think I have to compensate for the mass
> > > increase Guido will
> > > experience :-)
> > >
> >
> > I'll definitely give it a spin.  Now that we have a
> > working power mode, our next step should be to write
> > some more power mode examples for study.  Also, we
> > need to get working on the curriculum.
> > 
> I will leave the lessons/examples part to you and Andre.
> I'm currently cleaning up the Gvr-Testing tree and planning to
> put my HvR (Hal van Robot) SDL approach in there.
> When it's all working and we agree on the design we can move it over
> to "GvR" or put it in a tree of itself.
> 
> I will then work with the GvR-Testing tree for HvR, so anyone can take
> part in this SDL extravaganza :-)
> BTW, check out the pygame website, it gives "documentation" a whole
> new meaning.
> 
> Stas
> 
> 
> 
> --
> "Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual
>  who can labor in freedom."
> -Albert Einstein
> 


-- 
"Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual
 who can labor in freedom."
-Albert Einstein

Just a thought:

This would be a pretty radical jump -- but would we ever consider moving
GvR from wxWidgets to pygame/SDL? I know there was discussion of it a
long time ago when we thought we'd never solve that flicker problem...
do we still think it's a viable option at all?

i.e. would there be a compelling advantage to jumping the wxPython ship?

- W

On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 15:16 +0100, Stas Z wrote:
> BTW, pygame/SDL runs on all major platforms without any problem.
> 
> Stas

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:47:53 -0500, Waseem S. Daher <wdaher@...> wrote:
> Just a thought:
> 
> This would be a pretty radical jump -- but would we ever consider moving
> GvR from wxWidgets to pygame/SDL? I know there was discussion of it a
> long time ago when we thought we'd never solve that flicker problem...
> do we still think it's a viable option at all?
One of the reasons I put the SDL powermode in GvR-Testing is that we
can test it without tempering with the "normal" stuff.
IMO, SDL is the ultimate solution, however we have a good and stable
gvr which runs on all platforms, finally :-)
I would suggest that we first look how it goes with powermode, it would
be an excellent learning experience.
Don't think pygame is easier to grok then wxPython :-)

> i.e. would there be a compelling advantage to jumping the wxPython ship?
At this moment, no.
In the near future, yes. 

BTW, Waseem did you have the opportunity to look at my 
"gvr/powermode design study in GTK+" ?
I had to think about your OOP/MVC study in java you told us.
I have implemented a "signal emitting" observer which could be considered
the ultimate OO observer. :)

Stas

-- 
"Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual
 who can labor in freedom."
-Albert Einstein

On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 16:14 +0100, Stas Z wrote:
> BTW, Waseem did you have the opportunity to look at my 
> "gvr/powermode design study in GTK+" ?
> I had to think about your OOP/MVC study in java you told us.
> I have implemented a "signal emitting" observer which could be considered
> the ultimate OO observer. :)

Not bad at all :-)

How did you guys learn about design patterns, if you don't mind my
asking? In class, they recommended that we get the "Design Patterns"
book, which is apparently a pretty famous and well-accepted book... but
I imagine that most of this stuff is reasonably well-written up on the
internet (though there is something to be said for having it all
organized, well-written, and in one place).

So, did you guys mostly learn by example, or was it ever formally taught
to you?

I kind of had a leg up this semester because they were stressing test
cases, and I already had a fairly solid XP foundation thanks to
Steve/Jeff Elkner.

- W

--- "Waseem S. Daher" <wdaher@...> wrote:

> Just a thought:
> 
> This would be a pretty radical jump -- but would we
> ever consider moving
> GvR from wxWidgets to pygame/SDL? I know there was
> discussion of it a
> long time ago when we thought we'd never solve that
> flicker problem...
> do we still think it's a viable option at all?
> 
> i.e. would there be a compelling advantage to
> jumping the wxPython ship?
> 

I am more than willing to jump ship from wxPython, as
long as we don't have to give up any functionality.




		
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--- "Waseem S. Daher" <wdaher@...> wrote:
> How did you guys learn about design patterns, if you
> don't mind my
> asking? In class, they recommended that we get the
> "Design Patterns"
> book, which is apparently a pretty famous and
> well-accepted book... but
> I imagine that most of this stuff is reasonably
> well-written up on the
> internet (though there is something to be said for
> having it all
> organized, well-written, and in one place).
> 


I highly recommend reading the book, even if it all it
does is formalize designs that you would naturally
gravitate toward by using common sense.




		
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On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:39:30 -0500, Waseem S. Daher <wdaher@...> wrote:

> On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 16:14 +0100, Stas Z wrote:
>> BTW, Waseem did you have the opportunity to look at my
>> "gvr/powermode design study in GTK+" ?
>> I had to think about your OOP/MVC study in java you told us.
>> I have implemented a "signal emitting" observer which could be considered
>> the ultimate OO observer. :)
>
> Not bad at all :-)
>
> How did you guys learn about design patterns, if you don't mind my
> asking? In class, they recommended that we get the "Design Patterns"
> book, which is apparently a pretty famous and well-accepted book... but
> I imagine that most of this stuff is reasonably well-written up on the
> internet (though there is something to be said for having it all
> organized, well-written, and in one place).
>
> So, did you guys mostly learn by example, or was it ever formally taught
> to you?

I wish they were formally taught... :)
I've read "Design Patterns" by GoF (Gang of Four or Gamma and Co.) it is one of the best programming books I've touched and I strongly recommend it. It is true, there is nothing radical or new in those design patterns, everything was already common knowledge and as Steve said you would eventually gravitate toward the solutions presented there, however I see the book as a shortcut to a better solution, you'll get there faster.
My advice is to get the book, read it and then take one step forward by looking at:
http://c2.com/ppr/
also... Bruce Eckel's unfinished "Thinking in Python" sheds some light on the subject from python's perspective.

> I kind of had a leg up this semester because they were stressing test
> cases, and I already had a fairly solid XP foundation thanks to
> Steve/Jeff Elkner.
>
> - W



-- 
Peter Damoc
Hacker Wannabe
http://www.sigmacore.net/

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:39:30 -0500, Waseem S. Daher <wdaher@...> wrote:
>
> How did you guys learn about design patterns, if you don't mind my
> asking? In class, they recommended that we get the "Design Patterns"
> book, which is apparently a pretty famous and well-accepted book...
I've read it but it's a bit,... well.... boring :-{
I think that knowledge about a few designs is good but a whole book is
a bit overkill (IMHO)

> but
> I imagine that most of this stuff is reasonably well-written up on the
> internet (though there is something to be said for having it all
> organized, well-written, and in one place).
Perhaps I'm being old fashion, but what's wrong with the library ? :-)
 
> So, did you guys mostly learn by example, or was it ever formally taught
> to you?
Never got formal computer teaching, just hacking and trips to the library.
(And internet nowadays)

Stas

-- 
"Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual
 who can labor in freedom."
-Albert Einstein

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 15:48:13 -0800 (PST), Steve Howell
<showell30@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> I am more than willing to jump ship from wxPython, as
> long as we don't have to give up any functionality.
> 
I would suggest that we first see how powermode evolves.

Stas

-- 
"Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual
 who can labor in freedom."
-Albert Einstein

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:30:41 +0100, Stas Z <staslinux@...> wrote:
> powermode WORKS !!! and more importantly, it works like it was intended.!=
!
>=20
> Not with wxpython but with SDL wrapper called pygame.
> Makes sense when you think about it ;-)

Well... not necessarily :-)  I've managed to have my version of GvR
(or HvR ... or A.R :-) work
with wxPython *only*; no pygame :-).  I tested it on the following program:

----
def turnright():
    turnleft()
    turnleft()
    turnleft()
move()
turnleft()
move()
turnleft()
move()
pick_beeper()
move()
move()
put_beeper()
move()
turnright()
---
and it did what it was supposed to do :-)

This program is imported just like in the traditional GvR.  Last time
I reported on the state of my program, I mentioned that the display
only showed the initial and final position of the robot, with nothing
in between.  If you recall, I "exec" a user-defined program (after
doing some safety check) and "exec" basically took over the main
thread so that the display could not be updated until "exec" was
finished.   So, I took the plunge, looked at "thread examples" and
basically replaced

exec(code)

by

thread.start_new(self.execute_program, (code,))

where the exec statement (as well as a few variable assignments) occur
within the function execute_program().

So, the concept appears to work, and my version treats "traditional"
GvR program and "powermode" ones in the same fashion, since I don't
use a custom designed parser, but Python itself.

I am happy :-)   (Understatement of the year!)

Of course, much works remains to be done.  Right now, "Guido" ignores
non-existent beepers, doesn't complain about hitting walls, etc., etc.

I also need to do more work on the GUI world builder.  And clean up
the code.  And ...

Also, as far as I know, it only displays properly under Windows XP
(can't test yet under Linux).

But it works :-)

Can I still call myself a Python newbie?

Andr=E9

On Tue, 2004-11-23 at 20:00 -0400, Andre Roberge wrote:
> Can I still call myself a Python newbie?

Once you've entered the dangerous territory of threads and managed to
come back alive, in any language, I don't think you qualify as a newbie
anymore. 

Just watch out for synchronization problems when thousands of copies of
GvR are running in parallel on your mainframe and are doing bank
transactions! Because if Paul is simultaneously trying to deposit $100
on one computer and withdraw $100 on the other, he could end up with a
net difference of anywhere from $0 to $200! :-P

-- W

--- Andre Roberge <andre.roberge@...> wrote:

> This program is imported just like in the
> traditional GvR.  Last time
> I reported on the state of my program, I mentioned
> that the display
> only showed the initial and final position of the
> robot, with nothing
> in between.  If you recall, I "exec" a user-defined
> program (after
> doing some safety check) and "exec" basically took
> over the main
> thread so that the display could not be updated
> until "exec" was
> finished.   So, I took the plunge, looked at "thread
> examples" and
> basically replaced
> 
> exec(code)
> 
> by
> 
> thread.start_new(self.execute_program, (code,))
> 
> where the exec statement (as well as a few variable
> assignments) occur
> within the function execute_program().
> 
> So, the concept appears to work, and my version
> treats "traditional"
> GvR program and "powermode" ones in the same
> fashion, since I don't
> use a custom designed parser, but Python itself.
> 
> I am happy :-)   (Understatement of the year!)
> 

This is great news!


		
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After adding "error messages" when the robot hits a wall and has
problems with beepers, and adding robot positioning in the GUI world
builder,  I felt ready to tackle some of Roger Frank's lessons.  You
won't be suprised to hear that, in the process, I found a few bugs.=20
However, here's an example that now works properly, taken from Roger
Frank's lesson 2.

=3D=3D Initial world file =3D=3D
robot =3D (1, 5, 4)
walls =3D []
beepers =3D {}
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Note that my robot is *always* facing South by default.
(It's drawn so that it looks better that way :-)
I think that using Python syntax for strings (e.g. 'N')
would be too much at this stage.

Ok, here's the "normal solution"

=3D=3Dlesson2.py=3D=3D
turnleft()
move()
move()
put_beeper()
move()
put_beeper()
move()
put_beeper()
move()
put_beeper()
move()
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

This is the final world configuration:
robot =3D (7, 5, 0)
walls =3D []
beepers =3D {
    (5, 5): 1,=20
    (4, 5): 1,=20
    (6, 5): 1,=20
    (3, 5): 1
}
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Notice that the coordinates for the beepers do not appear to be in an
ordered way; this is typical of a Python dictionary.

Also note that there is no "import powermode" command.

Now, for variety, here's a more advanced solution:
=3D=3Dlesson2a.py=3D=3D
def put_and_move():
    put_beeper()
    move()
   =20
turnleft()
move()
move()
repeat(put_and_move, 4)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

I have introduced a "repeat function" whose syntax
is as follows:
repeat(command, number_of_times)

and is defined internally as follows:

def repeat(f, n):
    for i in range(n):
        f()

This is to replace the "do" command in GvR,
but hiding from the student the complication of for loops.

I think that "repeat" is more appropriate than "do", but I'm willing
to listen to thoughts to the contrary :-)

Andr=E9

--- Andre Roberge <andre.roberge@...> wrote:
> I have introduced a "repeat function" whose syntax
> is as follows:
> repeat(command, number_of_times)
> 
> and is defined internally as follows:
> 
> def repeat(f, n):
>     for i in range(n):
>         f()
> 
> This is to replace the "do" command in GvR,
> but hiding from the student the complication of for
> loops.
> 
> I think that "repeat" is more appropriate than "do",
> but I'm willing
> to listen to thoughts to the contrary :-)
> 

I'd try it out on some real students. :)



		
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On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:00:16 -0400, Andre Roberge
<andre.roberge@...> wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 21:30:41 +0100, Stas Z <staslinux@...> wrote:
> > powermode WORKS !!! and more importantly, it works like it was intended.!!
> >
> > Not with wxpython but with SDL wrapper called pygame.
> > Makes sense when you think about it ;-)
> 
> Well... not necessarily :-)  I've managed to have my version of GvR
> (or HvR ... or A.R :-) work
> with wxPython *only*; no pygame :-).  I tested it on the following program:
Great.

[...]
> This program is imported just like in the traditional GvR.  
So if I understand it correctly your app executes powermode files instead
of powermode controlling the app (world with robot)?

If so it's a totally different approach to the powermode design. I don't mean
it's bad thing, it's just different. :-)
 
Stas

-- 
"Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual
 who can labor in freedom."
-Albert Einstein

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:00:16 -0400, Andre Roberge
<andre.roberge@...> wrote:
> 
> Can I still call myself a Python newbie?
> 
No.

Stas

-- 
"Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual
 who can labor in freedom."
-Albert Einstein

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 07:37:10 +0100, Stas Z <staslinux@...> wrote:
>=20
> [...]
> > This program is imported just like in the traditional GvR. =20
> So if I understand it correctly your app executes powermode files instead
> of powermode controlling the app (world with robot)?
>=20
> If so it's a totally different approach to the powermode design. I don't =
mean
> it's bad thing, it's just different. :-)
>=20
Yes it is.  If you recall, my goal from the start was to provide a
seamless transition from GvR world to Python.  Just to explain
differently than what I had written, in order to do this, I had to
change GvR's notation as follows:

move -->  move()
turnleft --> turnleft()   [or turn_left() ... yet to finalise]
put_beeper --> put_beeper()
define --> def
if next_to_a_beeper:  -->  if next_to_a_beeper():

do n:=20
  (series of instruction)

is replaced by

def f():
   (series of instruction)
repeat( f, n)      or    do( f, n)

Using this "translation guide", you can immediately convert existing
solutions to Roger Frank's lessons.  But, you can also use the full
power of Python (aka powermode).

So, yes, it is "different"... and certainly not bad ;-)

Andr=E9