Library and GUI for Apple's iPod

On Mon, Feb 19, 2007 at 10:38:02 +0100, Tino Keitel wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> I just received my nano 2G (8 GB) and gtkpod is very slow during
> filling it. It looks like it doesn't even reach 2 MB/s. The iPod is
> connected to a USB2 card, /proc/bus/usb/devices also shows Spd=480 for
> the iPod device.
> 
> Is this normal, or is there a way to get better write speed?

>From the silence, I assume that this is normal. I think this is
strange. I got 2-3 times better transfer rates (5 MB/s) with my mini
1G, and I would have thought that current NAND flash is faster than a
microdrive from 3 years ago.

Regards,
Tino

On Tue, Feb 27, 2007 at 18:09:11 +0100, Tino Keitel wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2007 at 10:38:02 +0100, Tino Keitel wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> > 
> > I just received my nano 2G (8 GB) and gtkpod is very slow during
> > filling it. It looks like it doesn't even reach 2 MB/s. The iPod is
> > connected to a USB2 card, /proc/bus/usb/devices also shows Spd=480 for
> > the iPod device.
> > 
> > Is this normal, or is there a way to get better write speed?
> 
> >From the silence, I assume that this is normal. I think this is
> strange. I got 2-3 times better transfer rates (5 MB/s) with my mini
> 1G, and I would have thought that current NAND flash is faster than a
> microdrive from 3 years ago.

Hum, I tried again on another computer and got 5 MB/s using dd. Maybe I
should check my USB setup.

Sorry for the noise.

Regards,
Tino

On Tuesday 27 February 2007 6:49 pm, Tino Keitel wrote:
> Hum, I tried again on another computer and got 5 MB/s using dd. Maybe I
> should check my USB setup.

Hello Tino,

Check just not the ipod..but another USB device (a thumbdrive).  I had 
problems with SUSE 10.0 initially. Check this out:

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=105871#c19

HTH,
Jorge

On Tue, Feb 27, 2007 at 19:42:57 -0400, Jorge Fábregas wrote:
> On Tuesday 27 February 2007 6:49 pm, Tino Keitel wrote:
> > Hum, I tried again on another computer and got 5 MB/s using dd. Maybe I
> > should check my USB setup.
> 
> Hello Tino,
> 
> Check just not the ipod..but another USB device (a thumbdrive).  I had 

When I tried it with the other computer, I used dd instead of gtkpod.
With dd on the origin computer, I also got 5 MB/s. It looks like gtkpod
slows things down a lot.

Regards,
Tino

> On Tue, Feb 27, 2007 at 19:42:57 -0400, Jorge Fábregas wrote:
> > On Tuesday 27 February 2007 6:49 pm, Tino Keitel wrote:
> > > Hum, I tried again on another computer and got 5 MB/s using dd. Maybe
> I
> > > should check my USB setup.
> > 
> > Hello Tino,
> > 
> > Check just not the ipod..but another USB device (a thumbdrive).  I had 
> 
> When I tried it with the other computer, I used dd instead of gtkpod.
> With dd on the origin computer, I also got 5 MB/s. It looks like gtkpod
> slows things down a lot.

Speed will depend a lot on how the iPod is mounted. If you use the "sync" option when mounting things will slow down, but there is less of a chance of messing up you iPod when you disconnect before unmounting.

Also, dd has to be faster then normal file access -- it's just reading a chunk of memory instead of random accessing.

JCS.

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On Thu, Mar 01, 2007 at 15:54:30 +0100, Jorg Schuler wrote:

[...]

> Speed will depend a lot on how the iPod is mounted. If you use the
> "sync" option when mounting things will slow down, but there is less
> of a chance of messing up you iPod when you disconnect before
> unmounting.

I never use sync.

> 
> Also, dd has to be faster then normal file access -- it's just
> reading a chunk of memory instead of random accessing.

As gtkpod also reads/writes big chunks of data (mp3 files), it
shouldn't be that slow compared to dd IMHO, or am I missing something?

Regards,
Tino

On Thu, Mar 01, 2007 at 13:59:12 -0300, Manuel Naranjo wrote:
> 
> >As gtkpod also reads/writes big chunks of data (mp3 files), it
> >shouldn't be that slow compared to dd IMHO, or am I missing something?
> >  
> Yes I think so. Memory fragmentation. dd will read the hole, while mp3 
> files requires reading chunks that not necessary has to be one next to 
> the other.

The mp3 files from the hard disk were just copied from my old mini. The
hard disk of my notebook was filled ~20%, so there shouldn't be much
fragmentation. The nano was also fresh from Apple, so I don't see any
reason for notable fragmentation.

Regards,
Tino

Mhh not be so sure, flash memory is not the same than hd memories,
fragmentation on flash is much easier than hd. But I'm not sure how
the ipod handles this.

2007/3/1, Tino Keitel <tino.keitel@...>:
> On Thu, Mar 01, 2007 at 13:59:12 -0300, Manuel Naranjo wrote:
> >
> > >As gtkpod also reads/writes big chunks of data (mp3 files), it
> > >shouldn't be that slow compared to dd IMHO, or am I missing something?
> > >
> > Yes I think so. Memory fragmentation. dd will read the hole, while mp3
> > files requires reading chunks that not necessary has to be one next to
> > the other.
>
> The mp3 files from the hard disk were just copied from my old mini. The
> hard disk of my notebook was filled ~20%, so there shouldn't be much
> fragmentation. The nano was also fresh from Apple, so I don't see any
> reason for notable fragmentation.
>
> Regards,
> Tino
>
>
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naranjo.manuel@...

On Thu, Mar 01, 2007 at 18:10:05 +0100, Tino Keitel wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 01, 2007 at 13:59:12 -0300, Manuel Naranjo wrote:
> > 
> > >As gtkpod also reads/writes big chunks of data (mp3 files), it
> > >shouldn't be that slow compared to dd IMHO, or am I missing something?
> > >  
> > Yes I think so. Memory fragmentation. dd will read the hole, while mp3 
> > files requires reading chunks that not necessary has to be one next to 
> > the other.

Hum, I copied the mp3 files with the cp command and then the same files
again with gtkpod. gtkpod was slower, bit not that much (236 MB total, took ~
90 seconds with cp and a bit longer with gtkpod).

That's quite slow, just 2,5 MB/s. But it seems like I have to live with
it.

Regards,
Tino

On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 01:31:01 +0100, Tino Keitel wrote:

[...]

> Hum, I copied the mp3 files with the cp command and then the same files
> again with gtkpod. gtkpod was slower, bit not that much (236 MB total, took ~
> 90 seconds with cp and a bit longer with gtkpod).
> 
> That's quite slow, just 2,5 MB/s. But it seems like I have to live with
> it.

I just tried to copy a big (2 GB) tar archive to the iPod, and stopped
after a few hundred MBs because the transfer speed seems to be below 1
MB/s. That's really sick for such a device IMHO. :-(

Regards,
Tino

>
> What fragmentation? The device never was filled and there are some GB
> free space. Fragmentation also shouldn't really matter on flash drives,
> as there is no seek time like on hard disks.
>   
Mhh you don't have seek time in a flash memory, but you do time for 
memory direction.
>
>
> What ipod module? It's just usb-storage
You sure? Mhh maybe that can explain it. The ipod doesn't use the 
standard usb-storage under windows, it uses apple driver. I think you 
should really try the ipod under windows or mac.

Cheers,
Manuel

On Thu, Mar 08, 2007 at 14:29:23 +0100, Tino Keitel wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 04, 2007 at 01:31:01 +0100, Tino Keitel wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Hum, I copied the mp3 files with the cp command and then the same files
> > again with gtkpod. gtkpod was slower, bit not that much (236 MB total, took ~
> > 90 seconds with cp and a bit longer with gtkpod).
> > 
> > That's quite slow, just 2,5 MB/s. But it seems like I have to live with
> > it.
> 
> I just tried to copy a big (2 GB) tar archive to the iPod, and stopped
> after a few hundred MBs because the transfer speed seems to be below 1
> MB/s. That's really sick for such a device IMHO. :-(

I just saw this in dmesg:

SCSI device sdb: 3964928 2048-byte hdwr sectors (8120 MB)

What do other iPods report as hardware sector size? Maybe Linux VFAT
slows down a lot when the hardware sector size is not 512 bytes.

Regards,
Tino

On Thu, Mar 08, 2007 at 11:06:35 -0300, Manuel Naranjo wrote:

[...]

> You sure? Mhh maybe that can explain it. The ipod doesn't use the 
> standard usb-storage under windows, it uses apple driver. I think you 
> should really try the ipod under windows or mac.

OK, thanks for the suggestion. I'll try it in MacOS X and report back
the results.

Regards,
Tino

On Thu, Mar 08, 2007 at 11:13:12 -0300, Manuel Naranjo wrote:

[...]

> This is what my Kingstong 2GB pendrive reports:
> SCSI device sdb: 4030464 512-byte hdwr sectors (2064 MB)
> You are right it reports 512-byte as sector size.
> I checked neither usb-storage or scsi_mod lets you define the sector size.

That's why it is a _hardware_ sector size, because it is given by the
hardware and not by the (driver) software.

> Do you have a windows or mac box? If so please test the transfer speed.

A Mac with Linux and a hardly used MacOS X.

Regards,
Tino

On Thu, Mar 08, 2007 at 15:21:27 +0100, Tino Keitel wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 08, 2007 at 11:06:35 -0300, Manuel Naranjo wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > You sure? Mhh maybe that can explain it. The ipod doesn't use the 
> > standard usb-storage under windows, it uses apple driver. I think you 
> > should really try the ipod under windows or mac.
> 
> OK, thanks for the suggestion. I'll try it in MacOS X and report back
> the results.

Damn. The slow rates I discovered yesterday were on a Dell box with a
Debian 2.6.18 kernel. I tried again on a Mac with vanilla 2.6.20 and
got ~4,5 MB/s when I copied a 2,5 GB file to the same iPod over the
same cable. So either the kernel or the Dell box seems to be the
culprit. Sorry for the noise.

Regards,
Tino