I think I'll try FLTK. It looks like it has enough widgets to get me by, and
I like the fact that it compiles into the application (means I don't have to
setup the wxWindows libraries in my installer).
I like the discussion this has generated though. Geoff seems pretty
frustrated by his experience in trying to get Eiffel projects going, and who
can blame him. It's hard when you've got an environment you love, but enough
people don't love it to support it. You do everything you can, but you just
can't stop it from starving to death.
But that brings me back to an earlier question I think I asked on this list:
is there a language out there that a) gives type safety and automatic memory
management, b) generates native code applications that can be distributed
independantly of another install (otherwise I'd be using Python or Ruby),
and c) has a fairly rich set of standard libraries (these should include
GUI, database CLIs, XML and internet, good string manipulation, and perhaps
a math/numeric library)?
Eiffel's the only thing I can think of. There are many other environments
out there that give some of the above, but nothing that give all of them,
and you'd have to have all of them to have a decent general purpose
development platform. At least I need all of the above in what I do
From: Geoff Eldridge [mailto:geldridg@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 5:07 PM
Cc: SmartEiffel@...; elj-devel@...
Subject: Re: Windows/Mac cross platform GUI ...
-- CC'ed to the elj-devel list for information and discussion.
-- My apologies for not sending something like this a long time ago.
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 bmyers@... wrote:
> With the death of the ewxw project, it appears I'm left with Fox. Is
> this true?
I think others have already provided possible alternatives.
> Does anyone know the current state of the ewxw project?
There has been little developer activity since the last release. The project
received a mortal blow when its lead developer farewelled the project days
after the 0.7 release. My apologies for promoting the project for a short
period thereafter. I had an illusion that the project might continue,
though circumstances, and lack of technical skills and motivation on my part
saw the project come to its current
I know the project is being used by some developers. Even a university in
Spain is using the library as part of a course. I really have no idea if the
library is proving useful to these people as there has been no feedback. I
know there is at least one developer using wxEiffel on a daily basis and
even a SmartEiffel IDE (SEED2) has been developed:
Maybe another developer will step up to carry the ELJ project forward. Who
knows, stranger things have happened. For me I don't have the skills to pull
it off and I have lost the motivation to try and find others to help. I've
been involved in too many failed projects over the last six or seven years
(remember GRAPE, sarith, elj.com, ...). For the moment, I am just sitting
back using Eiffel on a daily basis and letting other more qualified people
push Eiffel forward. They know who they are and I am thankful they are still
there and appreciative of their efforts.
> If so, has anyone used ewxw and found it to be useable in it's current
It will still be useable in its current state. Not much has changed with the
core libraries (wxWindows) and the tools (SmartEiffel, GOBO,
geant) it uses. However, with time things will break and maintenance will
be required to keep the library uptodate. For instance:
* wxWindows is still in the 2.4.x version run with 2.5.x releases
planned for the first part of the year with 2.6.x releases planned
for the northern summer of 2004. The last six months have been
fairly destabilising for the wxWindows project with Borland toying
with them to include wxWindows in a future product. Most of
the developer energy has been lost to political issues surrounding
the formation of the wxFoundation and the developer copyright
assignment to the foundation to appease Borland's legal requirements
to take on an open source multiplatform GUI toolkit.
* SmartEiffel and Eiffel Language evolution: SmartEiffel is being
rewritten and the Eiffel Language is evolving. No doubt both of
these activities will break current wxEiffel code.
Hence, someone will have to be motivated enough to make these changes and
then make a release for wxEiffel to evolve past the 0.7 release.
Ultimately, the problem with small open source, Eiffel based projects is the
reliance on a single developer. The Eiffel landscape is littered with many
stalled and abandoned projects. It is a risky proposition to start using
libraries that can crumble once a lead developer decides to abandon the
> Has anyone tried EWG with ewxw?
This is something I have thought of over the last six months. I have lost
touch with the intimate details of how wxEiffel interacts with wxWindows C++
library via the wxEiffel customised C interface. I am sure some creative
thinking by someone with EWG and wxEiffel knowledge would find some way
forward with this idea. I must admit I have not used EWG beyond finding that
there are problems with lcc-win32's lcclib lcclnk tool (? .. something to do
with long filenames). In the past I would have asked Jacob to have a look at
this, but I think I have done too much asking over the years, so have not
pursued EWG beyond this.
Anyway, in summary:
* wxEiffel is probably best described as a stalled project. It is
currently usuable, but will need developer activity to evolve
with it dependencies. My hope is that someone might appear on the
scene to push it along again, particularly when SmartEiffel,
Eiffel and wxWindows start to evolve in 2004. Though, I suspect
this to be fairly unlikely as interest in Eiffel seems to be
retracting rather than expanding. Maybe I am wrong on this.
I hope I am.
* You are more than welcome to explore wxEiffel (maybe ask some
questions on the elj-devel list). My only warning is that there
is a lot to learn if you want to get involved with the internals.
You will need excellent C/C++ skills if you want to follow
wxWindows evolution. There was a lot of `magic' performed to get
the C interface working with both the SE and ISE compilers.
* there are other GUI libraries worth pursuing.
Good luck with your adventures. It is possible to produce professional GUI
applications using SmartEiffel, but be prepared for a lot frustration and to
put in a lot of effort to make it work for you.
Regards .. Geoff