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Marantz RC5 22 bits (Extend Data Word), possible with lircd.conf semantic ?

From: <lirc_ml_sf@pe...> - 2013-02-02 10:52

     Hi,

     I've got a Marantz remote control RC003PM. This a kind of 
multi-standard remote as it sends classical 14 bits RC5 for the TUNER 
function but uses at least two other standards for other functions. The 
main of these two others is a RC5 modified to be longer up to 22 bits in 
length (17/18 bits of data). It seems this is called Marantz Extend Data 
Word (see chronogram below).

     My question is : How to introduce two space bits (below in cyan) 
inside an RC5 (that never returns to zero by definition) ? I tested but 
found no options of lircd.conf to do so (pre, post, pre_data, 
post_data). Is there a solution ?

     Thanks all !

/David./

------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Protocol description (http://www.perrache.com/lirc_tmp/proto.png) :*


*AUX function, buttons chronograms 
(http://www.perrache.com/lirc_tmp/chrono.png) :*


*
**The remote (http://www.perrache.com/lirc_tmp/remote.jpg) :*

Thread View

Thread	Author	Date
Marantz RC5 22 bits (Extend Data Word), possible with lircd.conf semantic ?	<lirc_ml_sf@pe...>

Marantz RC5 22 bits (Extend Data Word), possible with lircd.conf semantic ?

From: <lirc_ml_sf@pe...> - 2013-02-02 10:52

Attachments: Message as HTML

Hi,

     I've got a Marantz remote control RC003PM. This a kind of 
multi-standard remote as it sends classical 14 bits RC5 for the TUNER 
function but uses at least two other standards for other functions. The 
main of these two others is a RC5 modified to be longer up to 22 bits in 
length (17/18 bits of data). It seems this is called Marantz Extend Data 
Word (see chronogram below).

     My question is : How to introduce two space bits (below in cyan) 
inside an RC5 (that never returns to zero by definition) ? I tested but 
found no options of lircd.conf to do so (pre, post, pre_data, 
post_data). Is there a solution ?

     Thanks all !

/David./

------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Protocol description (http://www.perrache.com/lirc_tmp/proto.png) :*


*AUX function, buttons chronograms 
(http://www.perrache.com/lirc_tmp/chrono.png) :*


*
**The remote (http://www.perrache.com/lirc_tmp/remote.jpg) :*

Re: Marantz RC5 22 bits (Extend Data Word), possible with lircd.conf semantic ?

From: Mona <deleon@ch...> - 2013-02-04 17:52

lirc_ml_sf wrote
> The main of these two others is a RC5 modified to be longer up to 22 bits
> in 
> length (17 bits of data). It seems this is called Marantz Extend Data 
> Word (see chronogram below).
> 
> My question is : How to introduce two space bits (below in cyan) 
> inside an RC5 (that never returns to zero by definition) ?
> 
> bffebjjh.png (28K)
> http://lirc.10951.n7.nabble.com/attachment/9784/0/bffebjjh.png

Your Marantz Extend Data Word and chronogram is actually the RC5x protocol.
I have the same problem with a Marantz SR8000 AV receiver (RC2000 MkII or
RC-18SR remote). I almost got it to work using "pre" and "pre_data". For
example, Marantz code 16 12 01 (discrete power on) would encode as 1101 0000
(2 bit space) 0011 0000 0001.

begin remote
  name        RC5x
  bits           20
  flags         RC5|CONST_LENGTH
  eps           30
  aeps         100
  one          890   890
  zero          890   890
  gap          125000
  toggle_mask  0x20000   # toggle_bit 3
  frequency      36000

  pre_data_bits  8
  pre_data        0xD0       # System = 16, limited to commands 0-63
  pre                0    3560 # No pre pulse, pre space of 2 bit times
(890*4)

  begin codes
    power_on     0x301 # 16 12 01
    power_off     0x302 # 16 12 02
  end codes
end remote

Unfortunately, lircd won't send the pre pulse/space unless BOTH values are
non-zero. It would be an easy code fix that shouldn't break anything else.
>From lircd 0.9.0 (transmit.c):

  290  if (remote->pre_p > 0 && remote->pre_s > 0) {
  291     send_pulse(remote->pre_p);
  292     send_space(remote->pre_s);
  293  }

Change this to:

 if (remote->pre_p > 0) {
    send_pulse(remote->pre_p);
 }

 if (remote->pre_s > 0)  {
    send_space(remote->pre_s);
 }

LIRC coders: I would suggest similar changes to the send_post, send_header,
and send_foot functions. It would increase flexibility without breaking
existing lircd.conf files. Or skip all the zero checks and have the
send_pulse and send_space functions immediately exit if called with data ==
0 (although this might have other side effects, mostly with invalid
lircd.conf files and the check_send_buffer function).

For now I'm using the raw_codes option. The RC5x commands I've needed are
discrete commands, so not having the toggle bit hasn't been a problem. Raw
codes for the commands above can be seen  here
<http://lirc.10951.n7.nabble.com/trouble-with-rc5x-td5701.html>  .

Adrian




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Re: Marantz RC5 22 bits (Extend Data Word), possible with lircd.conf semantic ?

From: <lirc_ml_sf@pe...> - 2013-02-04 18:25

Attachments: Message as HTML

Hi Mona,

     Thanks a lot for your solid and indeep explanations : Very 
helpfull. That would be a cool thing that LIRC devs would fix 
pulse/space limitations. However that would even be better that a such 
common coding could be handled natively, with a RC5x flag for example ! 
Why (seems) LIRC so backward ?

     My personal conculsion : After taking so much time working around 
lircd limitations finally I'm gonna drop lircd and just keep lirc_dev / 
lirc_serial modules which them are usefull. Coding RC5 myself took me 
much lesser time than configuring lircd... and thus printing out decoded 
values was easy, somthing that lircd can't even do (must use the poor 
irrecord).

Le 04/02/2013 18:52, Mona a écrit :
> lirc_ml_sf wrote
>> The main of these two others is a RC5 modified to be longer up to 22 bits
>> in
>> length (17 bits of data). It seems this is called Marantz Extend Data
>> Word (see chronogram below).
>>
>> My question is : How to introduce two space bits (below in cyan)
>> inside an RC5 (that never returns to zero by definition) ?
>>
>> bffebjjh.png (28K)
>> http://lirc.10951.n7.nabble.com/attachment/9784/0/bffebjjh.png
> Your Marantz Extend Data Word and chronogram is actually the RC5x protocol.
> I have the same problem with a Marantz SR8000 AV receiver (RC2000 MkII or
> RC-18SR remote). I almost got it to work using "pre" and "pre_data". For
> example, Marantz code 16 12 01 (discrete power on) would encode as 1101 0000
> (2 bit space) 0011 0000 0001.
>
> begin remote
>    name        RC5x
>    bits           20
>    flags         RC5|CONST_LENGTH
>    eps           30
>    aeps         100
>    one          890   890
>    zero          890   890
>    gap          125000
>    toggle_mask  0x20000   # toggle_bit 3
>    frequency      36000
>
>    pre_data_bits  8
>    pre_data        0xD0       # System = 16, limited to commands 0-63
>    pre                0    3560 # No pre pulse, pre space of 2 bit times
> (890*4)
>
>    begin codes
>      power_on     0x301 # 16 12 01
>      power_off     0x302 # 16 12 02
>    end codes
> end remote
>
> Unfortunately, lircd won't send the pre pulse/space unless BOTH values are
> non-zero. It would be an easy code fix that shouldn't break anything else.
> >From lircd 0.9.0 (transmit.c):
>
>    290  if (remote->pre_p > 0 && remote->pre_s > 0) {
>    291     send_pulse(remote->pre_p);
>    292     send_space(remote->pre_s);
>    293  }
>
> Change this to:
>
>   if (remote->pre_p > 0) {
>      send_pulse(remote->pre_p);
>   }
>
>   if (remote->pre_s > 0)  {
>      send_space(remote->pre_s);
>   }
>
> LIRC coders: I would suggest similar changes to the send_post, send_header,
> and send_foot functions. It would increase flexibility without breaking
> existing lircd.conf files. Or skip all the zero checks and have the
> send_pulse and send_space functions immediately exit if called with data ==
> 0 (although this might have other side effects, mostly with invalid
> lircd.conf files and the check_send_buffer function).
>
> For now I'm using the raw_codes option. The RC5x commands I've needed are
> discrete commands, so not having the toggle bit hasn't been a problem. Raw
> codes for the commands above can be seen  here
> <http://lirc.10951.n7.nabble.com/trouble-with-rc5x-td5701.html>  .
>
> Adrian
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://lirc.10951.n7.nabble.com/Marantz-RC5-22-bits-Extend-Data-Word-possible-with-lircd-conf-semantic-tp9784p9788.html
> Sent from the LIRC mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Marantz RC5 22 bits (Extend Data Word), possible with lircd.conf semantic ?

From: mba <datscharf@gm...> - 2013-02-12 17:10

Hi,

I am struggling with the exact same problem with a SR5003. And I am a bit
discouraged by your findings.

Most of the buttons I need I just recorded as raw, but some of the buttons
are not available on my Marantz remote. I would therefore like to manually
create the missing buttons in raw format but I am having a hard time
deciphering the encoding.

Eg. I have recorded: 
          name PowerOn
              810     938    1727    1813    1706     917
              831     938     853     895     810    4479
              810     938     853    1791     810     938
             1706     917     810     938     853     895
              831     938     853     895     831     938
              853    1791     853

I would like to create a Power toggle button. Looking in the Marantz RC
codes xml file I can see that 

PowerOn is 16 12 01 (System Command Extension)

and

Power is 16 12 (System Command)

Is there any way to create the raw code section according to the
system/command I listed.

Best regards
Martin



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Re: Marantz RC5 22 bits (Extend Data Word), possible with lircd.conf semantic ?

From: Bengt Martensson <bulk@be...> - 2013-02-12 19:16

On 02/12/13 18:09, mba wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am struggling with the exact same problem with a SR5003. And I am a bit
> discouraged by your findings.
> 

...

> 
> Is there any way to create the raw code section according to the
> system/command I listed.
> 
> Best regards
> Martin

Hi Martin,

you can use IrMaster (and/or its commando line version, IrpMaster), see
http://www.harctoolbox.org/IrMaster.html. It can generate these signals
(and many more) and export them in different formats, including
lirc.conf format.

Bengt

Re: Marantz RC5 22 bits (Extend Data Word), possible with lircd.conf semantic ?

From: Adrian DeLeon <deleon@ch...> - 2013-02-12 23:43

On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 09:09:57 -0800, mba <datscharf@...> wrote:

> Power is 16 12 (System Command)
>
> Is there any way to create the raw code section according to the
> system/command I listed.
>

The two number (System Command) codes are standard RC5 protocol and don't  
need to be specified in raw format. Below is a lircd.conf I recently  
submitted for Marantz equipment. It contains 2 remotes: Marantz_RC2000 for  
standard RC5 codes (System Command), and Marantz_RC200x that uses raw  
codes for RC5x commands (System Command Data).

If you want to make raw codes anyway, read on.

For RC5 (your 2 number System Command), the format is:

Start, Inverted MSB of Command, Toggle, 5 bits of System, Lower 6 bits of  
Command

Code 16 12:
16 = 10000b (5 bit System)
12 = 0001100b (7 bit Command)

Start is a 1, inverted MSB of Command is 1, toggle is typically written as  
a 0.

So 16 12 becomes 11010000001100. In the lircd.conf below, the start bit is  
handled by plead, leaving only 1010000001100, which is why the hex code  
for POWER_ON/OFF is shown as 0x140C and not 0x340C

To make raw codes, let's use "A" to mean an 890us pulse of IR, and "B" to  
mean an 890us space of no IR. For RC5, each bit is encoded as follows:
0: AB
1: BA

So the binary code for the power toggle command gets translated as follows:

1  1  0  1  0  0  0  0  0  0  1  1  0  0
BA BA AB BA AB AB AB AB AB AB BA BA AB AB

The numbers in the raw_codes section of lircd.conf are lengths for an IR  
pulse, IR space, IR pulse, IR space, etc... Raw codes ALWAYS begin and end  
with a pulse, so ignore the leading "B" (space) in the command and any  
trailing "B". Finally, convert each string of A's and B's into the  
appropriate length of IR pulse or space.

Ignoring the leading and trailing B:
A BA AB BA AB AB AB AB AB AB BA BA AB A

Grouping the A's and B's for clarity:
A B AA BB AA B A B A B A B A B A BB A B AA B A

Substituting the proper number of microseconds for each pulse/space:
A (890), B (890), AA (1780), BB (1780), AA (1780), B (890), ...

This then becomes:

    name power_toggle
       890 890 1780 1780 1780 890
       890 890 890 890 890 890
       890 890 890 1780 890 890
       1780 890 890

As you can see, each number is a multiple of 890. When using irrecord to  
generate raw codes there is some measurement error, so the numbers won't  
always be exact multiples. Compare your power ON to mine:

           name PowerOn
               810     938    1727    1813    1706     917
               831     938     853     895     810    4479
               810     938     853    1791     810     938
              1706     917     810     938     853     895
               831     938     853     895     831     938
               853    1791     853

# Command 16 12 01
	name POWER_ON
		890	890	1780	1780	1780	890
		890	890	890	890	890	4450
		890	890	890	1780	890	890
		1780	890	890	890	890	890
		890	890	890	890	890	890
		890	1780	890

Not too different. Looks like your remote (or IR receiver) has a slightly  
longer space than pulse. There's a fair tolerance in IR commands, so  
either one will work. My codes were tested on a Marantz SR8000 A/V  
Receiver.

HTH,

Adrian



# lircd.conf.RC2000
#
# These codes are for the Marantz RC2000 MkII and RC-18SR universal remote  
control.
# They should operate the following Marantz AV Receiver/Amp devices:
#
# SR9600, SR9300, SR9200, SR8500, SR8400, SR8300, SR8200, SR7500, SR7400,  
SR7300
# SR7300OSE, SR7200, SR6400, SR6300, SR6200, SR5600, SR5500, SR5400, SR5300
# SR5200, SR4600, SR4500, SR4400, SR4300, SR4200, SR4320, PM-11S1, PM7001,  
PM7200
#
# From  
http://us.marantz.com/DocumentMaster/US/Marantz_RC_codes_All_AVR_Amp.zip
#
# Command codes listed by Marantz consist of groups of decimal numbers.
# Commands with 2 numbers (ie: command 16 12) are RC5 codes.
# Commands with 3 numbers (ie: command 16 12 01) are RC5x codes.
#
# Note: RC5x is not supported by LIRC (as of 0.9.0), so these codes are in  
raw format.
#
# RC5x protocol: 3 pieces of data are sent - System(0-31), Command(0-127),  
Data(0-63)
#      Data sent is START, inverted MSB of Command, TOGGLE, System, PAUSE,  
Command, Data
#       
START,~C6,TOGGLE,S4,S3,S2,S1,S0,PAUSE,C5,C4,C3,C2,C1,C0,D5,D4,D3,D2,D1,D0
#
# EXAMPLE: For the Marantz code 16 12 01 (POWER ON)
#          System =  16 (10000b)
#          Command = 12 (0001100b)
#          Data =     1 (000001b)
#
#          START  is always 1
#          TOGGLE is always 0 (lircd toggles it automatically every  
keypress)
#          PAUSE  is a gap of 2 bit times where no IR pulses are sent, it  
is NOT two zeroes!
#
#          So the resulting data is  
1,1,0,1,0,0,0,0,PAUSE,0,0,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1
#                                   ~C6 T S4.....S0       C5.......C0  
D5.......D0
#
#          This bit sequence is what is encoded in the raw format below  
(MSB first).
#

begin remote

   name  Marantz_RC2000
   bits           13
   flags RC5|CONST_LENGTH
   eps            30
   aeps          100

   one           890   890
   zero          890   890
   plead         890		# This is the start bit!
   gap          125000
   toggle_bit      2		# toggle_mask 0x800?
   frequency    36000

       begin codes

	POWER_ON/OFF		0x140C
	VOL+			0x1410
	VOL-			0x1411
	MUTE			0x140D
	ATT			0x140D	# (PM-11S1)
	OK/OSD_Menu		0x0412	# OSD menu ON & OK
	EXIT_MENU		0x0413	# Exit from OSD menu
	ENTER			0x0417	# (PM-11S1)
	CURSOR_Up		0x0410
	CURSOR_Down		0x0411
	CURSOR_Left		0x0415
	CURSOR_Right		0x0416

# These are the "System Select" keys. They change which
# mode the Marantz system and the remote are in.

	TUNER-1			0x147F	# Tuner-1 or change BAND (>FM>AM>LW)
	LINE1			0x147F	# (PM-11S1)
	CD			0x153F
	TAPE			0x14BF
	RECORDER2		0x14BF	# (PM-11S1)
	CD-R			0x16BF
	RECORDER1		0x16BF	# (PM-11S1)
	MD			0x15FF
	LD			0x133F
	TV			0x103F
	VCR1			0x117F
	VCR2			0x11BF
	DSS			0x123F
	PHONO			0x157F

	SURROUND_MODE		0x1425
	SOURCE_DIRECT		0x1422
	PURE_DIRECT		0x1422
	SLEEP			0x1426	# Activate sleep timer (10 min. step)
	OSD_Info		0x140F	# OSD general information on/off
	DISPLAY			0x140F	# Front display on/off

# SR4320
	SPEAKER_Sel		0x141D	# Select Speaker (SPKR-A> SPKR-B> SPKR-A+B> SPKR-Off>)
	SPEAKER-A_ON/OFF	0x1423
	SPEAKER-B_ON/OFF	0x1427

# Tone controls
	BASS+			0x1416
	BASS-			0x1417
	TREBLE+			0x1418
	TREBLE-			0x1419
	BALANCE_RIGHT		0x141A
	BALANCE_LEFT		0x141B

	BAND			0x147F	# Select FM and AM (Toggle)

# Commands for Tuner-1 mode
	Tuner-1_FM		0x146D
	Tuner-1_AM		0x146E
	Tuner-1_MEMO		0x1469	# Memory
	Tuner-1_PRESET_SCAN	0x146B	# Start Preset Scan
	Tuner-1_PRESET_Up+	0x1460	# Preset(Skip) up
	Tuner-1_PREST_Down-	0x1461	# Preset(Skip) down
	Tuner-1_FREQ_Up+	0x145E	# Frequency(Scan) up
	Tuner-1_FREQ_Down-	0x145F	# Frequency(Scan) down
	Tuner-1_T-MODE		0x1465	# FM MODE (Auto Stereo / Mono)
	Tuner-1_FREQ-DIRECT	0x144B	# Change to Direct Frequency input mode
	Tuner-1_0		0x1440
	Tuner-1_1		0x1441
	Tuner-1_2		0x1442
	Tuner-1_3		0x1443
	Tuner-1_4		0x1444
	Tuner-1_5		0x1445
	Tuner-1_6		0x1446
	Tuner-1_7		0x1447
	Tuner-1_8		0x1448
	Tuner-1_9		0x1449
	Tuner-1_CLEAR		0x147A

	PRESET_INFO		0x0452	# Display the preset station OSD
	DISPLAY_MODE		0x144F	# Toggle display mode
	PTY			0x1478	# Select Program Type for RDS

       end codes

end remote

begin remote

   name  Marantz_RC2000x
   flags RAW_CODES|CONST_LENGTH
   eps            30
   aeps          100

   gap 125000

#  one           890 890
#  zero          890 890
#  plead         890

#  If the transmit PAUSE is 2 bits long, the toggle bit would be in this  
position
#  toggle_mask 0x080000

   frequency 36000

       begin raw_codes

# Command 16 12 01
	name POWER_ON
		890	890	1780	1780	1780	890
		890	890	890	890	890	4450
		890	890	890	1780	890	890
		1780	890	890	890	890	890
		890	890	890	890	890	890
		890	1780	890

# Command 16 12 02
	name POWER_OFF
		890	890	1780	1780	1780	890
		890	890	890	890	890	4450
		890	890	890	1780	890	890
		1780	890	890	890	890	890
		890	890	890	890	890	1780
		1780

# Command 16 00 10 - Select DVD mode (LINE2 - PM11S1)
	name DVD
		890	890	1780	1780	1780	890
		890	890	890	890	890	4450
		890	890	890	890	890	890
		890	890	890	890	890	890
		890	890	890	1780	1780	1780
		1780

# Command 16 00 06 - Select AUX1 mode
	Name AUX1
		890	890	1780	1780	1780	890
		890	890	890	890	890	4450
		890	890	890	890	890	890
		890	890	890	890	890	890
		890	890	890	890	890	1780
		890	890	1780

# To Do:
#
# 16 13 00	MUTE_ON
# 16 13 01	MUTE_OFF
# 16 00 13	INPUT_NEXT
# 16 00 14	INPUT_BACK
# 17 63 02	TUNER-2
# 16 00 07	AUX2
# 16 00 20	BALANCED
# 16 01 03	7.1(6.1)CH.Input_ON/OFF
# 16 01 12	7.1(6.1)CH.Input_ON
# 16 01 13	7.1(6.1)CH.Input_OFF
# 16 37 45	AUTO
# 16 37 30	STEREO
# 16 37 50	MULTI-CH_STEREO
# etc...

	end raw_codes
end remote

Re: Marantz RC5 22 bits (Extend Data Word), possible with lircd.conf semantic ?

From: mba <datscharf@gm...> - 2013-02-27 07:57

Thanks a lot for the very detailed description of the format and thanks for
the link to the program both proved invaluable when creating a hybrid
configuration file.

As a side note, I made an android app called Amote (its on google play)
which basically is a multi-remote for your android device, with it I can
pick and place the buttons I want readily available. Therefore it does not
matter that the configuration of the Marantz remote is in two different
sections. Thats only evident when doing the configuration of the app, and
not when using it.



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