SquirrelMail

> since some years I have SquirrelMail in use on my servers for my
> customers and me. At the moment I am running the “newest” version 1.4.22
> from 15. July 2011.
>
> I wonder why the design and the functions are so “old-school” like.
> It looks like Web 1.0 or before, but I miss some stylish new design with
> the use of AJAX and so on, like other webmailers using today.

I think the reason is that no person has stepped up and offered a patch
with AJAX. I think that the biggest reason for SquirrelMail loosing ground
is that the UI is quite old-school.

> Is there any development going in this direction, which I missed since
> yet? I didn’t find anything about this on the website of squirrelmail.

Our development branch contains code which makes it possible to build a
more modern UI, but the persons doing most of the work in that direction
aren't contributing actively anymore. It's a pity, but that just how
things are. Anyway, check out the 1.5.2 snapshots to try out the more
advanced SquirrelMail UI, and feel free to send in any patches you might
have.

> Just to test, I installed the Webmailer “Roundcube” and this looks much
> newer to me.

Roundcube certainly is eye pleasing (I've seen screenshots). I haven't
used it or looked at the code, so I can't compare it to SquirrelMail
function-wise.

Sincerely,
Fredrik

On 28-11-2012 10:21, Fredrik Jervfors wrote:
>
> Roundcube certainly is eye pleasing (I've seen screenshots). I 
> haven't
> used it or looked at the code, so I can't compare it to SquirrelMail
> function-wise.
>
Quite simply, Roundcube rocks...

It is unfortunate, but I have not seen any significant development with 
squirrelmail for quite some time.

*written on my roundcube webmail*

Thank you.

This is a real pitty.
For years I used Squirrelmail, but now, when I introduced Roundcube to my users, they immediately wanted to switch.
It is done, roundcube is our new webmailer.

Good bye, Squirrelmail, it was a nice time after all :)

frank


Am 28.11.2012 um 11:21 schrieb Fredrik Jervfors:

>> since some years I have SquirrelMail in use on my servers for my
>> customers and me. At the moment I am running the “newest” version 1.4.22
>> from 15. July 2011.
>> 
>> I wonder why the design and the functions are so “old-school” like.
>> It looks like Web 1.0 or before, but I miss some stylish new design with
>> the use of AJAX and so on, like other webmailers using today.
> 
> I think the reason is that no person has stepped up and offered a patch
> with AJAX. I think that the biggest reason for SquirrelMail loosing ground
> is that the UI is quite old-school.
> 
>> Is there any development going in this direction, which I missed since
>> yet? I didn’t find anything about this on the website of squirrelmail.
> 
> Our development branch contains code which makes it possible to build a
> more modern UI, but the persons doing most of the work in that direction
> aren't contributing actively anymore. It's a pity, but that just how
> things are. Anyway, check out the 1.5.2 snapshots to try out the more
> advanced SquirrelMail UI, and feel free to send in any patches you might
> have.
> 
>> Just to test, I installed the Webmailer “Roundcube” and this looks much
>> newer to me.
> 
> Roundcube certainly is eye pleasing (I've seen screenshots). I haven't
> used it or looked at the code, so I can't compare it to SquirrelMail
> function-wise.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Fredrik
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Keep yourself connected to Go Parallel: 
> INSIGHTS What's next for parallel hardware, programming and related areas?
> Interviews and blogs by thought leaders keep you ahead of the curve.
> http://goparallel.sourceforge.net
> -----
> squirrelmail-users mailing list
> Posting guidelines: http://squirrelmail.org/postingguidelines
> List address: squirrelmail-users@...
> List archives: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.mail.squirrelmail.user
> List info (subscribe/unsubscribe/change options): https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/squirrelmail-users

OK, I just installed Roundcube.  I must say, it's a pleasing interface. 
You are
able to use shift-click and ctl-click on the message list to choose 
multiple messages for
deletion - unlike SM where you have to individually click on each 
message.

On the other hand, Roundcube is definitely more resource-hungry.  It 
uses an SQL
database to organize the emails.  I had a couple of really big mail 
spools - one
was 1.7 gigabytes - and roundcube barfed when I tried to open it.

Also, I have learned never to hit the "refresh" button in roundcube.  
The web browser
goes away for a long time, and my server gets bogged down with imapd 
processes.  The
refresh in SM is much more civilized.

Oh, and Roundcube doesn't have "delete-and-next".

As far as adapting SM to AJAX - doesn't sound too probable to me.  AJAX 
is a totally different way of doing business.  I am starting to use it 
in my business software ( a set of LAMP applications ) and I can say 
that it's hard to poke at the edges with AJAX and just do a little here 
and there.  One of the main strengths of SM is the richness of all the 
plugins - and I can't but imagine that converting to AJAX would break 
all or most of them.


                     - Jerry Kaidor

On 11/28/2012 04:11 AM, francwalter@... wrote:
> For years I used Squirrelmail, but now, when I introduced Roundcube to my users, they immediately wanted to switch.
> It is done, roundcube is our new webmailer.

I offer both on my server. (I also offer a 3rd which seems a little 
better for mobile users.) Some users don't like change, and it doesn't 
take much effort to keep offering SM.

RC doesn't have as rich a set of plugins as SM, but it seems to be 
rapidly catching up.

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 01:11:24PM +0100, francwalter@... wrote:
> Thank you.
> 
> This is a real pitty.
> 
> For years I used Squirrelmail, but now, when I introduced Roundcube
> to my users, they immediately wanted to switch.
> 
> It is done, roundcube is our new webmailer.
> 
> Good bye, Squirrelmail, it was a nice time after all :)

Obviously, every situation is different.  

We are a small rural ISP in mid-USA.  

We brought up both Roundcube in addition to our Squirrelmail
installation.  We give users the option of picking one or the other.
For the first month, we also had a poll on the website for users
to let us know which one they liked best.  The owner expected 90+%
would pick Roundcube.  He hates SquirrelMail because he thinks it
is visually outdated, and therefore ugly.  I expected around 75%
would prefer Roundcube.

Actual results, from those of our userbase who actually voted, were,
from memory:

	78% SquirrelMail

	22% RoundCube

We had a few hundred users vote out of a few thousand users.

We were both very surprised.

The result would probably have been different if our users had seen
both options from the start.  But, they were already familiar with
SquirrelMail.

In my experience, most people hate change.

-- 
Scott Lambert                    KC5MLE                       Unix SysAdmin
lambert@...

On Thu, November 29, 2012 11:07 am, WJCarpenter wrote:

> I offer both on my server. (I also offer a 3rd which seems a little
> better for mobile users.)

what is the mobile friendly one ?

-- 
Voytek

Am 27.11.2012 09:28, schrieb francwalter@...:
> I wonder why the design and the functions are so “old-school” like.
> It looks like Web 1.0 or before, but I miss some stylish new design with the use of AJAX and so on, like other webmailers using today.
> 
> Is there any development going in this direction, which I missed since yet?

I hope not. I am very happy there is still a webmailer left which
hasn't jumped on the 2.0/AJAX/active everything bandwagon.

> Just to test, I installed the Webmailer “Roundcube” and this looks much newer to me.
> 
> It is not just me, but also my customers, to who I want to offer a modern and nice looking webmailer for their websites. 

No one is stopping you from doing so. But please remember there
are other users who are, for various reasons ranging from simple
force of habit to actual technical limitations, quite happy to
stay with the "old school" interface.

Just install Roundcube and Squirrelmail side by side and let each
user use the one he or she likes best. Choice is good.  If
Squirrelmail converted to the same AJAX paradigm everyone else
is using it would take away that choice.

-- 
Tilman Schmidt
Phoenix Software GmbH
Bonn, Germany

>> I wonder why the design and the functions are so “old-school” like.
>> It looks like Web 1.0 or before, but I miss some stylish new design with
>> the use of AJAX and so on, like other webmailers using today.
>>
>> Is there any development going in this direction, which I missed since
>> yet?
>
> I hope not. I am very happy there is still a webmailer left which
> hasn't jumped on the 2.0/AJAX/active everything bandwagon.
>
>> Just to test, I installed the Webmailer “Roundcube” and this looks much
>> newer to me.
>>
>> It is not just me, but also my customers, to who I want to offer a
>> modern and nice looking webmailer for their websites.
>
> No one is stopping you from doing so. But please remember there
> are other users who are, for various reasons ranging from simple force of
> habit to actual technical limitations, quite happy to stay with the "old
> school" interface.
>
> Just install Roundcube and Squirrelmail side by side and let each
> user use the one he or she likes best. Choice is good.  If Squirrelmail
> converted to the same AJAX paradigm everyone else is using it would take
> away that choice.

The SquirrelMail approach is to detach the UI from the core functionality
so it's possible to use SquirrelMail for offering both an AJAX 2.0 UI and
a old-school HTML 4.01 UI side by side. We don't want to take that choice
away from the system administrator and his/her customers. And you you want
to have a custom-made UI you could provide it yourself as a plugin without
having to patch SquirrelMail. The same goes for a mobile UI.

But as I wrote earlier; we started but we haven't reached the goal yet
since we have limited resources. If you know anyone who can help with
graphics, layout, JavaScript please ask them to participate. Even if we go
web 2.0 we won't leave web 1.0 behind.

--
Fredrik Jervfors <http://fredrik.jervfors.se/>
The SquirrelMail Project
Please support Open Source Software by donating to SquirrelMail!
http://squirrelmail.org/donations.php

On Thu, November 29, 2012 03:01, Fredrik Jervfors wrote:
>>> I wonder why the design and the functions are so “old-school” like.
>>> It looks like Web 1.0 or before, but I miss some stylish new design
>>> with
>>> the use of AJAX and so on, like other webmailers using today.
>>>
>>> Is there any development going in this direction, which I missed since
>>> yet?
>>
>> I hope not. I am very happy there is still a webmailer left which
>> hasn't jumped on the 2.0/AJAX/active everything bandwagon.
>>
>>> Just to test, I installed the Webmailer “Roundcube” and this looks much
>>> newer to me.
>>>
>>> It is not just me, but also my customers, to who I want to offer a
>>> modern and nice looking webmailer for their websites.
>>
>> No one is stopping you from doing so. But please remember there
>> are other users who are, for various reasons ranging from simple force
>> of
>> habit to actual technical limitations, quite happy to stay with the "old
>> school" interface.
>>
>> Just install Roundcube and Squirrelmail side by side and let each
>> user use the one he or she likes best. Choice is good.  If Squirrelmail
>> converted to the same AJAX paradigm everyone else is using it would take
>> away that choice.
>
> The SquirrelMail approach is to detach the UI from the core functionality
> so it's possible to use SquirrelMail for offering both an AJAX 2.0 UI and
> a old-school HTML 4.01 UI side by side. We don't want to take that choice
> away from the system administrator and his/her customers. And you you want
> to have a custom-made UI you could provide it yourself as a plugin without
> having to patch SquirrelMail. The same goes for a mobile UI.
>
> But as I wrote earlier; we started but we haven't reached the goal yet
> since we have limited resources. If you know anyone who can help with
> graphics, layout, JavaScript please ask them to participate. Even if we go
> web 2.0 we won't leave web 1.0 behind.
>
> --
> Fredrik Jervfors <http://fredrik.jervfors.se/>
> The SquirrelMail Project
I concur that there needs to be a non-AJAX version.  I just had a client
who wanted us to add a download progress bar and I asked if he could
guarantee everyone had Javascript on and AJAX available and he said no he
couldn't and that's a small subset of our customer base.

Just my 2cents worth.

------
William R. Mussatto
Systems Engineer
http://www.csz.com
909-920-9154

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 10:00 AM, jerry <jerry@...> wrote:
> OK, I just installed Roundcube.  I must say, it's a pleasing interface.
> You are
> able to use shift-click and ctl-click on the message list to choose
> multiple messages for
> deletion - unlike SM where you have to individually click on each
> message.

See the Select Range plugin.

> As far as adapting SM to AJAX - doesn't sound too probable to me.  AJAX
> is a totally different way of doing business.  I am starting to use it
> in my business software ( a set of LAMP applications ) and I can say
> that it's hard to poke at the edges with AJAX and just do a little here
> and there.  One of the main strengths of SM is the richness of all the
> plugins - and I can't but imagine that converting to AJAX would break
> all or most of them.

Fredrik was referring to version 1.5.2.

-- 
Paul Lesniewski
SquirrelMail Team
Please support Open Source Software by donating to SquirrelMail!
http://squirrelmail.org/donate_paul_lesniewski.php

On 29/11/2012 7:10 μμ, Wm Mussatto wrote:

> I concur that there needs to be a non-AJAX version.

I won't insist on the use of AJAX, BUT a well-designed, pleasent 
interface is definitely needed. The bundled themes are simply over-aged 
and inadequate - below user expectations. As others have indicated, the 
UI may become a primary reason for forcing admins to migrate to other 
solutions, which would indeed be a pitty.

We are in the era of HTML 5 (incl. CSS), and someone should probably 
devote work on leveraging these technologies to create a GUI which is 
really rich, extensible, functional, productive and pleasing.

I hope some UI/web-technologies professional(s) can voluntarily provide 
this work, or the SM project could attempt to launch a dedicated 
UI-revision project which will have very well-defined budget, targets, 
time-frame etc. and promote/request public funding (I have proposed the 
same to LibreOffice whose GUI also remains terribly neglected...)

A first phase would be to create proposals of new UI designs and present 
to people for commenting/voting.

The essence is mainly to realize the importance of the UI which will 
undoubtedly lead to providing the resources needed.

My 2c.

Best regards,
Nick

The closest equivalent to Roundcube that I've seen in SquirrelMail is
Ensignia (old NutsMail - nutsmail.com). It's a SquirrelMail fork based on
1.4.22. It adds a theming engine (including mobile support) and some ajax
here and there, but it's not fully ajax-based like Roundcube. It's got some
very nice skins, but they're not free. Still, it could be a good option if
you'd like to stay with SquirrelMail since it's fully compatible with all
the plugins, user settings, etc. Roundcube is also a good option if you can
take the step of changing the client. It also has mobile support via
additional skins at roundcubeskins.net. There are demos available for both
Ensignia and roundcubeskins.net, so you should be able to make a
well-informed decision of whether to stay with SM or move to RC.

Good luck!



--
View this message in context: http://squirrelmail.5843.n7.nabble.com/Looking-for-a-new-version-with-AJAX-etc-tp25145p25170.html
Sent from the squirrelmail-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.