Bugs item #2941923, was opened at 2010-01-28 16:43
Message generated for change (Comment added) made by mwedel
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Submitted By: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
Summary: 11 bugs, alchemy, spell attunement, npc shops, client (WIN)
version: 1.12-beta-r12190M _and_ 1.trunk-r12372M
server: crossfire.metalforge.net _and_ invidious.melfin.net
client: GTK v2 (oroboros.glade layout, cache images _set_, download all
images from server _set_)
OS: Win XP sp3
char: selenil (lvl 21 monk dragon of gaea)
Alchemy (3rd lvl summoning skill, type "invoke alchemy"): Non-additive results with the range is an issue
This 3rd level summoning spell, Alchemy, grabs all items in the nine tiles at range 0 to 1 from the character, and turns them into approximately 20% of their value in gold nuggets.
The problem is that it does so in non-additive fashion! More than once now, I have "lost" a pile of valuable goodies, because it was adjacent to a piece of furniture (table, chair, etc.). The furniture got dragged into the alchemy spell, and its value replaced the value of the pile I was alching, basically giving zero value.
My band-aid fix has been to double-check that all nearby furniture and also "nearly invisible" (on my screen anyways) arrow droppings have been accounted for before alching. I try to alch in truly open places, away from flowers, mushrooms, trees, rubble, bones, boulders, and other bits of seemingly harmless scenery.
A much better, more robust fix would limit alchemy's range to 0, so you can affect only the pile of goodies that is in the one tile directly under you.
Identifying nuggets for Jeweler xp, large stacks don't count for proportionally more
If you identify a stack of 30 gold nuggets, you don't get thirty times the Jeweler xp as if you identified 30 piles of one nugget each. I believe this applies for Alchemy and Woodsman skills too, although the end results have been less painful for those skills (at least for me, on the maps I visit). It is especially bad if you fail to identify a pile of 30; then every nugget in that pile is unavailable for you to try again.
My band-aid fix has either been to identify before I pick them up (works on maps where the goodies are spread out) or to collect the unidentified nuggets in a sack, and spread them out in my apartment, identifying them in piles of 1 nugget type per pile. It actually isn't so insane, as you can do 18 nuggets at a time (range=1 means the identify skill will hit up to 9 tiles x 2 (1 large nugget, 1 small nugget). Plus you can automate pickups and drops with keybindings. Still, it would be better if the xp that piles gave was proportional.
I know all of this sounds silly, until you actually try it once with a large amount of nuggets, and see for yourself just how much Jeweler xp you would be missing out on, otherwise.
Rolanda's Cauldron in Scorn:
In Rolanda's house in Scorn, a cauldron respawns regularly. It looks just like an alchemy cauldron, it has the same name, colour, weight, value. Everything is the same, except that you can't do alchemy with it.
I've identified it to verify that it's not cracked or cursed. If you put alchemy products into it (yes, you can, it opens like a container, or cauldron), and then type "use_skill alchemy", the alchemy skill will attempt to identify nearby alchemy products, as if there was no cauldron nearby.
I don't know if it's intentional that Rolanda's cauldron does not work for alchemy, but if this is the case, perhaps renaming it to something like "witches kettle" will make things less confusing for new alchemists. Definitely keep it in the game though, it makes a fine apartment decoration. It rates as one of the most fun things I've found in Scorn so far; it just needs to be clearer that it's not for alchemy (or fixed so it works for alchemy, either way is good).
Ring of the Dark Priest will attune me to wounding, but I'll still be denied it by Gaea
I'm a Gaea aligned monk dragon wearing 1 (or even 2) rings of the Dark Priest. Gaea denies me wounding spells, yet the rings attune me to wounding.
I'm not sure if equipment is supposed to have priority over deity, or vice-versa. From the manuals, I got the impression that equipment was meant to overcome the limitations imposed on a character by a "challenging" class, race, or deity choice.
Either way though, it is odd to be both attuned and denied a spell. I figured either "blanket deny" the spell, or "over-ride attune" it. Or maybe some middle option where the deny and attune cancel out, and I am "repelled" to wounding if I wear 1 ring, and "neutral" to wounding if I wear 2 rings (of Dark Priest), as my Deity and the dark forces imbued in the rings vie for control of my soul and destiny.
Ring of the Dark Priest + Deity = Gaea means I am both attuned and denied to wounding path as shown in "Perceive Self". In any case, as it currently stands, I can't cast wounding spells with Dark Priest rings worn, while also serving Gaea.
"You worship Gaea
(lightning fast movement)(Spell abilities:)(burning hands ability)(medium fireball ability)(sustenance+15)(grace+3)(magic+1)(regeneration+2)(Claws: physical, fire)(Attuned: Protection, Fire, Electricity, Summoning, Wounding)(Repelled: Restoration)(Denied: Wounding, Death)(armour +15)(resist magic +8)(resist fire +8)(resist electricity +35)(resist cold +33)(resist confusion +55)(resist acid +1)(resist drain +100)(resist poison +6)(resist fear -100)(resist depletion +100)(resist death +100)
Your metabolism is focused on electricity."
Selling to NPC shops, odd buy-back prices:
The variants of odd NPC shop buy-back pricing are numerous, but I'll give 4 examples that stand out.
A) Hidden price caps: Unidentified Zombie Corpses. Back before I had the identify spell and woodsman skill, I would sell piles of these unidentified corpses to the NPC general store in Scorn. What I discovered was that the money I would get was capped at about 25 to 30 zombie units, so if I was selling 28 or 228, I would get the same payout. My band-aid solution: Sold 25 corpses at a time.
B) Relog can make or break you: Identified Zombie Corpses. I was slowly collecting a big pile of identified Zombie corpses in my apartment. What I had discovered, was that with identified corpses, that result was the reverse of the above .. to a point. There was no cap on identified corpses, in fact, the price per unit seemed to slowly rise with each new corpse I added to the pile. I got it to about 1088 platinum for 215 corpses. But then I logged out. Upon logging back, I discovered that my 1088 plat pile of corpses was now worth only about 568 plat (more in line with the value per unit of a much smaller pile). Apparently logging out had corrected some broken arithmetic regarding the true value of that pile, or had broken something. Either way, the pricing was inconsistent at best, and buggy at worst. "Beware the relog" is what I learned from it.
C) Melee madness: H2H weapon piles vs. thrown ones. Weapons that you are meant to hold while fighting (daggers, shortswords, clubs) give far inferior paybacks in large piles than missile weapons (bow, throwing dagger, stoneaxe, spear). The situation is even more apparent with piles of +1 or +2. These low end weapons may have similar buybacks in small amounts of 1 or 2, but put them in a pile of 30, 150, or 500, and watch how it diverges.
D) Mike Miller's house in Scorn: 18 bottles of Chateau Lapompe 1969. When you first get the 18 bottles from the 3 chests in the basement, they are worth about 77 platinum, and the stores pays about half to 2/3's of that at my charisma of 25. If I relog before selling them, the value drops to 56 platinum, and the stores gives no message that it has paid anything for them at all when I drop them. But they are amber-coloured text (unpaid) on the floor, with a 400+ platinum buyback. This particular Lapompe divergence, before and after logout, is very reproducible. I have tested it a few times with consistent results.
Containers no longer available to the character can remain in a "stuck open" condition
If you ...
a) walk away from a cauldron immediately after dropping items into it (when it is vanished from the "You See" list but still visible on the map under you
b) or if you alch the cauldron at that point (alch into nuggets, 3rd lvl summoning spell)
c) or if you walk away from multiple stacked opened containers under you (a pile of opened human, dog, bird, and skull skeletons from Mike Miller's house comes to mind here)
then your character can acquire a "container stuck open" condition, where it will behave as if a container is open, accessible to your character, even though none is available any longer.
My quick band-aid fix for this was to keep a light container on my person (sack or rucksack), and cycle it through its closed, active, active + open, closed phases. This clears the bug, until the next time. A programmed perma-fix would be far preferable, naturally.
Monsters (mobs) auto-rearrange the piles of loot in a room
I know that some spells can destroy loot or imprison it within other objects (icecubes), but it seems as if monsters have basic housekeeping on their minds whilst they fend off attacks from brave adventurers.
I have noticed this in particular in the goblin room of raffle1. I keep trying to move piles of unwanted weapons and corpses to the sides, but the goblins keep moving them back to where-ever the action is. Technically, it might not be the goblins themselves, but whatever procedure is called to drop the loot of slain mobs upon the floor. Piles are being merged, even at several tiles of range.
I'm not sure if this behaviour is intended, but it is odd to watch it happen while fighting back hordes of baddies and trying (in vain) to sort through their various treasures.
Stepping on an "unholy" tile or fumbling a prayer resets you to default attack and holy symbol (praying)
I play a monk dragon and I've noticed this especially at raffles entrance. If you try to cast a spell (like Banishment or Holy Word) while on an unholy tile (the gate tile) or if you fumble your spell, it resets you to your default attack (clawing) and to your holy symbol (praying). This means that if you were training Karate and Prayer (with Banishment), for example, you would have to re-select Karate and your Banishment spell to continue. It's annoying, and maybe on harder maps, potentially lethal. I hope it's an easy fix.
My band-aid fix for now is just to keep my holy symbol locked away in my sack, but when I eventually get a holy symbol with path attunements, I really won't want to hide it away. Even now I like having it handy for various functions, so this is a partial fix, at best.
Alchemy (3rd level summoning spell) in spoiler refers to a mix of the spell and the unrelated Alchemy skill
"Description: This spell is needed for alchemy. You must drop the items of a alchemy recipe in a cauldron. Then you must cast this spell on the cauldron. If it's not used with a cauldron it transforms surrounding objects into gold nuggets."
Yikes! If you actually try this 3rd level summoning skill on your cauldron, you will wind up alching your cauldron into 10 large nuggets and 6 small ones. So much for reading the manual. Seriously though, this needs to be updated with how the 3rd lvl summoning spell alchemy (gold nuggets, all the time), and the skill alchemy (cauldron, items = results) actually work. Right now, if some new alchemists read this, we are going to have some very unhappy alchemists.
X-ing (3rd Gui-button "close" on windows systems) for GTK v2 client perma-closes keybindings & spells
On the GTK v2 client for windows, the keybindings and spells options both open up as separate windows which contain their details and controls. But if you "X" either if these windows, then the X-ed window will be unavailable for recall from the GTK v2 menu, until the client is restarted.
Band-aid solution: I minimize the windows, instead of closing them, for now. If I forget, then I just restart the client. Hopefully it's an easy Windows GUI fix though, for whomever is maintaining the windows client.
More odd Windows (XP sp3) behaviour with the GTK v2 client: Shift+key, F10, and diagonals
Shift+Key keybindings don't seem to work in the windows client. You can set them, but pressing Shift+Key will not activate them. The other keybinding options: Key, Ctrl-Key, Alt-Key, all work fine.
Shift-diagonal (using the numpad) for firing & casting also refuses to work, although numpad works fine for movement (including diagonal movement with the 7, 9, 1, 3 numpad keys).
I can use F10 in a keybinding, but the client will over-ride this for its own use in menu selection. (F10 toggles menu options, instead of activating its keybinding.)
>Comment By: Mark Wedel (mwedel)
Date: 2010-11-26 21:41
Looking at price of items, I made a few adjustments, but overall, nothing
seems to far out of whack. While bows are a missile weapon, and at the
higher end of value, at the same time, one is not likely to find them in
much greater numbers than hth weapons - any given creature is only going to
have one bow.
The weapons which come in a bunch (like throwing daggers and spears) are
more a concern to me, since one creature could come with a larger number of
them, which means the value that that creature has is greater.
Comment By: Mark Wedel (mwedel)
Date: 2010-11-19 23:10
Ring of the Dark Priest will attune me to wounding, but I'll still be
denied it by Gaea:
That is working as intended - items can not overcome race/class/god
limitations. EG, there is nothing that will allow a monk to use weapons,
nothing that allows a dragon to wear armor, etc.
Some items can help overcome banes put on by the god, eg, if worshipping
some god gives high vulnerability to certain attacks, one can wear items to
reduce/eliminate that penalty.
It is perhaps incorrect to be both denied and attuned to a spellpath
(perhaps odder would be attuned + repelled, since in that case you could
cast a spell). However, if one things about it, this makes sense in the
way it operates - attuned gives you some bonus to cast spells, but denied
completely prevents casting - pretty clear that the denied has greater
While it would be fairly simple to clean that up so that it only lists the
a character being attuned/repelled/denied to once for each spellpath (so if
you are attuned + denied, it just shows denied), I'm not sure if that
really makes things any better - I can then see people saying 'I have this
ring that makes me attuned, but it isn't showing up' - seems like no matter
what is done, someone could find it not the ideal solution.
Comment By: Mark Wedel (mwedel)
Date: 2010-11-19 23:01
Rolanda's cauldron has been renamed since this bug report to make it clear
it isn't a cauldron, so that has been fixed in trunk.
Comment By: Mark Wedel (mwedel)
Date: 2010-11-19 22:57
In future, please file 1 bug for each issue - having them all in one bug
makes it very difficult to address/track each point.
In terms of alchemy, IMO, that is proper behavior - alchemy is lossy - and
you can alchemy nuggets, but you will end up with fewer than you started -
alchemy does not discriminate on what it converts. Maybe that is a bug -
may be it should specifically not alchemy nuggets, but I consider that a
feature - alchemy should be something used with care.
Identification is also working as expected IMO - many such operations get
you experience based on the operation, not how large the operation is.
This does mean that one can break apart the item and identify it 1 by 1 and
get more experience, but player is now making a tradeoff - spending more
time to identify for more exp - which is completely reasonable IMO.
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