Might be that some things in repeats are failing because of https://www.betterform.de/trac/ticket/52
From: Joern Turner [mailto:joern.turner@...]
To: pdipietro@... [mailto:pdipietro@...]
Cc: <abarone@...> [mailto:abarone@...], <betterform-users@...> [mailto:betterform-users@...]
Sent: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 14:33:32 +0200
Subject: Re: [Betterform-users] icons in repeat
I have just worked on the AVT implementation on friday. It's now supports refreshing too. There are some restrictions however and i've not yet tested repeats. I will commit those changes on Monday.
Probably i have another idea on how you can solve your tree problem. But that's better to discuss via Skype ( maybe monday?).
On 23.10.2010, at 13:22, "pdipietro@...
I'm trying to use the AVT, with no luck.
As you know, should the current AVT implementation work if used in a repeat child element?
Or the fact to be evaluated only at xforms:load have some unexpected side effects?
Da: "Joern Turner" <joern.turner@...>
Inviato: martedì 19 ottobre 2010 17.22
Oggetto: Re: icons in repeat
On 10/19/10 4:12 PM, pdipietro@... wrote:
> yes, I took but just a a little ;-) - I didn't want to enter in your
> home and shout, but just send you a message about the difficulties to
> use the product under some circumstances.
> My personal opinion is that there have been some back steps with respect
> to chiba. The introduction of dojo introduce a lot of interferences:
> just to say, if I put an <img ... /> in the body of a label, it just
> disappear, so I cannot freely mix xforms and html markups.
Sorry you see it like that but i seriously doubt that you could do this
in Chiba everywhere. And to be correct - it is not inline with the spec:
a XForms label does not allow any content but text() and xf:output in
its content model. So in fact it was never allowed to have HTML inside a
You may dislike this as a user but that are the facts.
The move to Dojo has made things more correct (though more strict in
some cases) and you have to take a different approach. Probably the
problem at the moment is not that you can't have HTML inside of
components but the lack of certain controls (or combinations thereof).
One of them certainly being the tree. We confess this but i have to
repeat myself. We as a team have put many years into that and can't
fulfill all wishes instantly. You are invited to take part and improve
> The real situation is that i tried to build a 'simple sample' to send
> you, but doing so I discovered other 'troubles' (as you can see, I'm not
> speaking about bugs, because they can simply be my faults!)
> Anyway, I'll enclose you a couple of files (not complete, but they give
> you an idea of the goal)
> - an xform with a repeat where i'd like to put xpath in the class
> attribute (changing dinamically the class can help for the tree-like
already answered that on the list
> - another one where I tried to use select, but itemlist cannot be used
> with bind so I cannot tell if a value is relevant/not relevant /visible
> not visible)
really? what is the problem - sure an itemset can be bound. If you have
an issue please sort in out in a simple testform.
> - a css (which I used to put images on the button side
> I think that the real important problem is the lack of the tree view.
As i said - that's true and i'd like to have it better today than
tomorrow. Nevertheless we don't have a schedule for that as there are
many other things to accomplish.
Btw, as i think of your tree - maybe there would have been a much
simpler solution. Why haven't you just generated an HTML tree? Or used a
foreign component to display the tree. Not everything must be in XForms
- i've used that in our Timetracker demo. If you are mainly using the
component to display something (as seems to be the case for your tree)
you can simply create some HTML (and probably some JS eventhandlers) and
embed it in the document. You can then still trigger XForms by using the
JS API to dispatch to a hidden trigger. Sorry, i don't have the time to
fully describe the whole solution here but i do not think all options
have been considered yet.
> I hope to hear news from you.
> *Da*: "Joern Turner" <joern.turner@...>
> *Inviato*: martedì 19 ottobre 2010 11.53
> *A*: pdipietro@...
> *Oggetto*: Re: icons in repeat
> the fact that you have not replied to this mail lets me assume that you
> probably taken some of my remarks personal. I can just assert you that
> this was not the intend.
> Anyway - i hope it is not too late for you but Tobi is now taking a
> little time to look into the repeated image triggers. With a little luck
> he can work our something. We will let you know.
> On 10/14/10 2:33 PM, Joern Turner wrote:
>> On 10/14/10 1:20 PM, pdipietro@... wrote:
>> > Joern,
>> > I'm a little bit disappointed, because betterform seems to have more
>> > flaws than I expected to see.
>> I'm sorry you make this experience. We are trying our best to improve
>> the situation and we have found and fixed quite a lot issues on our way
>> to the next release. Further we are improving our feature explorer which
>> involves writing some dozens of reference forms that are guaranteed to
>> work. This is another quality boost i think.
>> > As I already told you, we are doing a large investment in terms of
>> > development time to propose this approach for Poste Italiane and the
>> > government.
>> > It is a really hard proof of concept for our architecture, and it's
>> > going well.
>> > But they can and will decide the kind of product to use to implement. It
>> > could be betterform or maybe not.
>> Of course. I understand all that. But i hope you also understand our
>> position. We are very small and have to focus. Currently we focus on the
>> next release and of course your problem will be addressed in that release.
>> But we have problems if requests for fixes come with a 'fix it quickly
>> for me - i have business' label on it as we have our own agenda to
>> follow and also have to do some work for our living which simply does
>> not leave the room for quickly changing horses and reacting on requests
>> in the open source project.
>> Unfortunately we often do NOT profit from quickly helping and fixing
>> things within days unless we do not let the people pay for it. We made
>> some unfortunate experiences here.
>> And things will be addressed if you have a bit of patience or even try
>> to help it by giving detailed information about the issue and provide a
>> sample form and at least take away a bit of work for us.
>> This is why we stick to 'ask for money if instant service is requested'
>> - this is a matter of survival.
>> > We were trying to show them that betterform COULD DO THE JOB.
>> Hope you still believe in it.
>> > As you have surely noted, I didn't ask you to disturb you to implement
>> > 'tree controls', trying to use an alternate approach using basic
>> > controls.
>> Yes, i have and as we had some customer work to do in the meantime i did
>> not get back to you and started to work on that. I surely like the idea
>> of having that but there are still so many things to do before...
>> > But I discovered that basic controls are also bugged and this put me in
>> > a difficult situation.
>> Please file tickets for your issues in our trac. This already helps to
>> get things going. You won't believe how much time it takes us to do all
>> these things. Read and respond to mails and in case of bug description
>> (which are often cryptic and insufficient) turn that into a issue
>> description which can be filed as ticket. Then sometimes even invent a
>> test form that hopefully matches the use case of the requester etc. etc.
>> You help a lot if you think clearly about your problem and write a well
>> thought bug report and attach a broken-down sample form that shows the
>> In that case when can quickly take the sample and start testing /
>> debugging and work out a fix.
>> > As I'm working free of any charge investing all my time (D365/H24, I'm
>> > not joking and this is of course only my own problem!) and the time of
>> > other people in this proposal, I cannot pay an € just to solve other
>> > products problems.
>> I hope i've made clear that i understand your situation - it very much
>> the same for us. But i also have to object here. Of course we appreciate
>> that you have choosen betterFORM. But you did it on your own risk and
>> decision and you get a product that allows you to build YOUR business
>> upon it. You got this software (which is an investment of over 20
>> manyears now) for free and you are invited to improve it. Everything is
>> But if you make business with it it's just fair to give back some
>> contributions or pay for service and consulting or even donate
>> something. Otherwise no real professional open source will work any
>> more. If you are not able to pay regular fees you can help with your
>> work. Sometimes it's a gesture just to donate some euros at least - e.g.
>> we have a micro-payment on our tickets and you can choose yourself how
>> much you want to invest to make a bug fix attractive for us - it's not
>> always a question of the amount. But we do not feel motivated by
>> requests saying 'you have a problem - fix it quickly for me and fix it
>> for free'. Might be that we over-react sometimes here.
>> > Sorry, but as I already told you, I think the best way is to be open and
>> > honest.
>> Yes, and i really appreciate it. Please excuse if i hit a harsh tone but
>> i also have to make our point clear.
>> Please create a ticket at https://betterform.de/trac and provide a
>> broken down sample that you need to be working. We'll do our best to
>> look into that the next days though i simply cannot make any commitments
>> when it will be done as our customer has precedence.
>> I hope we can nevertheless fix it in time for you - we want it for the
>> next release anyway and i'll give this a higher priority. Of course i
>> hope you will succeed with betterFORM.
>> > Paolo
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > *Da*: "Joern Turner" <joern.turner@...>
>> > *Inviato*: mercoledì 13 ottobre 2010 10.14
>> > *A*: pdipietro@...
>> > *Oggetto*: Re: icons in repeat
>> > Paolo,
>> > of course it would be possible to solve this and create a patch. Which
>> > version do you currently use?
>> > It's more a problem with time. We currently have to struggle for paid
>> > work and the preparation on our next release is a bit slowed down now. I
>> > have a new customer to serve though that does not take all of our time.
>> > But i simply can't assert you that we can work on this issue with
>> > priority as we have so many other things to prepare for the release.
>> > If that's really mission-critical to you please consider to invest a
>> > little money to do that. This gives us the option to free some time for
>> > you - i do not think that this would take much more than a day but i
>> > think we really have to code something to make the image output work
>> > inside a trigger.
>> > Sorry i have no other option to offer. I think it would be difficult to
>> > explain what needs to be done to fix it for yourself. That would take
>> > nearly the time we need to do it. Please understand that we are under
>> > some economical pressure here.
>> > Best,
>> > Joern
>> > On 10/12/10 10:03 PM, pdipietro@... wrote:
>> >> Joern,
>> >> have you got any suggestion on how to solve this question?
>> >> Do you think it can be possible to patch in any way (compatable with the
>> >> running version Light steel without upgrading to the new exist?
>> >> Please let me know.
>> >> Paolo