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On 10/05/2010 01:04 PM, Tobias Ellinghaus wrote:
> WARNING: Braindump following!
> Am Dienstag, 5. Oktober 2010 schrub johannes hanika:
>> On 10/02/2010 05:37 PM, G.Siemerink wrote:
>>> Dear Robert,
>>> I'm not (completely) convinced.
>>> Why not start with a warning (balloon) in Darktable
>>> before anyone tries to redirect the improved image?
>>> As long as Darktable doesn't posses layers or tools to improve local
>>> it's up to the (amateur) photographer to do some finishing touch in Gimp.
>> and of course the remove-trotzki button. please remember that dt is not
>> the gimp, and it is also not designed to exploit the full capabilities
>> of libraries such as gegl.
> Let me use this thread to write a few ideas I had regarding GIMP and other
> tools. Please keep in mind that I'm writing from the distant future where
> everything is as it should be, not as it happens to be.
> In this world GIMP has reached a state where it's completely gegl based and
> non-destructive. It also supports arbitrary color spaces and bit depths. What
> that means in essence is that GIMP will construct a graph of gegl nodes which
> are stored together with the initial image data (plus some more fancy things
> which I'll ignore in our setting). To display the final image these nodes are
> applied to the image.
> Another application which has moved to gegl will be darktable – we'll build a
> linear graph of gegl nodes which are stored together with the input image. I
> hope you see that it's basically the same thing as GIMP does.
> My idea would be the following:
> Add a GIMP-plugin to darktable. The special thing about this plugin is that it
> has no fixed place in the pipeline but can be inserted anywhere (drag&drop?).
> It can also be inserted several times in different places.
> All it does is rendering the image up until the place in the pipeline where
> the GIMP plugin is inserted (full resolution pixel pipeline?), build some kind
> of minimal XCF file from it and pass it to GIMP. There the user can do his
> regular editing and save the file when he's done. This file has now a gegl
> graph which is extracted from the XCF file and inserted into our linear graph.
> This blob of nodes coming from GIMP will from now on be treated as a single
> node which can be turned on/off, removed, …
> The GIMP plugin will also allow the user to re-open the file in GIMP: render
> the image, put it into an XCF file together with the blob of nodes, proceed as
the gegl interoperability part i like and think it's realistic (in 20
years..). which i'd like to exploit to make my point stronger:
you use dt to develop your images in 1000s in short time, organize them
and quickly find your archived images by collections.
when you're done with that, you can still (non-destructively) import the
linear processing pipe into gimp and make your fine tuning adjustments,
make people smile and power lines disappear.
after these finishing moves, i don't really see a reason to go back to dt?
> I'm well aware that having a plugin at several places in the pipeline is far
> from ideal, but i guess there are use cases to have the possibility of editing
> anywhere in the pipeline. It has to go before monochrome if one needs color
> information from the image in GIMP, it has to be at the end to do $WHATEVER, …
>> dt can't do non-linear editing (in the sense of webs of nodes of
>> operations with multiple input images, output images, arbitrary
>> operators in between, in arbitrary order)
>> this is because a lot of our operations are specifically targeted toward
>> raw development (demosaic, white balance, base curve) and only make
>> sense in this linear, fixed order.
> That would still hold as our nodes would still be linear. The graphs coming
> from GIMP won't hurt.
>> dt is meant to make large-scale photo workflow (develop and organise
>> your 1000 shots quickly) feasible.
>> i don't want it to manipulate/falsify photographs or create new pieces
>> of artwork (via touch screen drawings etc).
>> this is also part of the keep-it-simple strategy. i very much believe
>> that too many too powerful features with too many small buttons too
>> close to each other result in unusable/hard to learn software. i really
>> like blender and it can solve all my 3d problems. but is it easy to use?
>> (spot removal sounds like a simple plugin though..)
> When we are geglified I'd also like a way to save the whole gegl graph in a
> way accessible from GIMP.
gegl has already some (unfinished, unstable) xml serialization code, so
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