Archetypes

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Thomas N. <thn-d@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> this mail is probably on interest for Vincent.
>
> ArgoUML is currently further developed to support UML2 (based on the eclipse
> UML2 implementation of the UML 2.2 spec). As an ArgoUML developer, I'm
> currently working on the profile subsystem to make it UML2 ready.
>
> Question: Shall I send you a UML2 version of the current AGX profile (would
> take me some days until I have this available), or is this needless, because
> AGX can't deal with such an XMI (2.1) file?

Hi Thomas,

I saw you on #agx, sorry I was AFK.

Currently AGX2, more precisely xmiparser handle only XMI 1.0, 1.1, 1.2.
AGX3 is in development, and we are close to have a full transformation chain.
Jens implemented profile at Budapest sprint, but I don't know the
details. Do you have a XMI 2.1 parser?
Jens, does model written with argouml 0.28.2/archgenxml_profile.xmi
will be usable in AGX3?
Maybe with a model transformation AGX2 to AGX3 ? :-)
In UML2, tagged-values are necessarily bound to a stereotype, so
having the current archgenxml_profile.xmi written in XMI 2.1/UML2 is
not so simple.

Regards

Vincent Fretin
Ecreall
Site : http://vincentfretin.ecreall.com

Hi,

Am Donnerstag, den 19.11.2009, 17:01 +0100 schrieb Vincent Fretin:
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Thomas N. <thn-d@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > this mail is probably on interest for Vincent.
> >
> > ArgoUML is currently further developed to support UML2 (based on the eclipse
> > UML2 implementation of the UML 2.2 spec). As an ArgoUML developer, I'm
> > currently working on the profile subsystem to make it UML2 ready.
> >
> > Question: Shall I send you a UML2 version of the current AGX profile (would
> > take me some days until I have this available), or is this needless, because
> > AGX can't deal with such an XMI (2.1) file?
The current archgenxml profile is not of interest for development of
AGX3 and the current xmiparser will propably not be adopted for UML2.

in AGX3 we use UML2, currently made with eclipse modelling tools. the
profile(s) used there are quite different from the one used in AGX2.

regards,

robert

> 
> Hi Thomas,
> 
> I saw you on #agx, sorry I was AFK.
> 
> Currently AGX2, more precisely xmiparser handle only XMI 1.0, 1.1, 1.2.
> AGX3 is in development, and we are close to have a full transformation chain.
> Jens implemented profile at Budapest sprint, but I don't know the
> details. Do you have a XMI 2.1 parser?
> Jens, does model written with argouml 0.28.2/archgenxml_profile.xmi
> will be usable in AGX3?
> Maybe with a model transformation AGX2 to AGX3 ? :-)
> In UML2, tagged-values are necessarily bound to a stereotype, so
> having the current archgenxml_profile.xmi written in XMI 2.1/UML2 is
> not so simple.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Vincent Fretin
> Ecreall
> Site : http://vincentfretin.ecreall.com
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Robert Niederreiter wrote:

> 
> in AGX3 we use UML2, currently made with eclipse modelling tools. the
> profile(s) used there are quite different from the one used in AGX2.

Cool - so no longer dependent on ArgoEclipse (well, it never really was - 
unless you wanted to use it inside Eclipse).  Is this AGX3 in a state that 
can be useful to someone willing to test the bleeding edge?
-- 
derek

Hi

Am Freitag, den 20.11.2009, 09:01 -0400 schrieb Derek Broughton:
> Robert Niederreiter wrote:
> 
> > 
> > in AGX3 we use UML2, currently made with eclipse modelling tools. the
> > profile(s) used there are quite different from the one used in AGX2.
> 
> Cool - so no longer dependent on ArgoEclipse (well, it never really was - 
> unless you wanted to use it inside Eclipse).  Is this AGX3 in a state that 
> can be useful to someone willing to test the bleeding edge?
not yet. the complete required transform chain is not finished yet, so
nothing concrete can be generated atm.

we'll sprint on agx3 next weekend for 3 days and hope to have the
missing links for the complete chain done then.

regards, robert

Hi,

to answer a question from Vincent first: yes, ArgoUML now has an XMI 2.1
parser (from the eclipse modeling tools, as mentioned above), since
developer version 0.29.1 (current is 0.29.2).
 

Robert Niederreiter wrote:
> 
>> > in AGX3 we use UML2, currently made with eclipse modelling tools. the
>> > profile(s) used there are quite different from the one used in AGX2.
>> 
>> Cool - so no longer dependent on ArgoEclipse (well, it never really was - 
>> unless you wanted to use it inside Eclipse).  Is this AGX3 in a state
>> that 
>> can be useful to someone willing to test the bleeding edge?
> not yet. the complete required transform chain is not finished yet, so
> nothing concrete can be generated atm.
> 
> we'll sprint on agx3 next weekend for 3 days and hope to have the
> missing links for the complete chain done then.
> 

Would be great to exchange models for UML2 then. Again, I can offer to send
a migrated agx profile the way ArgoUML could parse (with eclipse UML2), but
I also would be happy to see what your migrated profile would look like.

Thomas
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On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Thomas N. <thn-d@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> to answer a question from Vincent first: yes, ArgoUML now has an XMI 2.1
> parser (from the eclipse modeling tools, as mentioned above), since
> developer version 0.29.1 (current is 0.29.2).
>
>
> Robert Niederreiter wrote:
>>
>>> > in AGX3 we use UML2, currently made with eclipse modelling tools. the
>>> > profile(s) used there are quite different from the one used in AGX2.
>>>
>>> Cool - so no longer dependent on ArgoEclipse (well, it never really was -
>>> unless you wanted to use it inside Eclipse).  Is this AGX3 in a state
>>> that
>>> can be useful to someone willing to test the bleeding edge?
>> not yet. the complete required transform chain is not finished yet, so
>> nothing concrete can be generated atm.
>>
>> we'll sprint on agx3 next weekend for 3 days and hope to have the
>> missing links for the complete chain done then.
>>
>
> Would be great to exchange models for UML2 then. Again, I can offer to send
> a migrated agx profile the way ArgoUML could parse (with eclipse UML2), but
> I also would be happy to see what your migrated profile would look like.
>
> Thomas

I think AGX3/UML2 model will not be compatible with AGX2/UML1.4 model
until somebody write a migration tool AGX2 to AGX3.
There is no need to migrate the current archgenxml_profile.xmi from
UML 1.4 to UML 2, it will not be usable by AGX2 and is no adapted for
AGX3 transform chain.

Am I right Robert?

Vincent

Hi,

Am Samstag, den 21.11.2009, 17:14 +0100 schrieb Vincent Fretin:
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Thomas N. <thn-d@...> wrote:
> >
> > Would be great to exchange models for UML2 then.

What do you mean with "exchange" models?

>  Again, I can offer to send
> > a migrated agx profile the way ArgoUML could parse (with eclipse UML2), but
> > I also would be happy to see what your migrated profile would look like.
> >
> > Thomas
> 
> I think AGX3/UML2 model will not be compatible with AGX2/UML1.4 model
> until somebody write a migration tool AGX2 to AGX3.
> There is no need to migrate the current archgenxml_profile.xmi from
> UML 1.4 to UML 2, it will not be usable by AGX2 and is no adapted for
> AGX3 transform chain.
> 
> Am I right Robert?

AGX2 was written to generate plone products and archetypes (and some
other), but only this.

AGX3 will be different, it is designed to please any kind of code
generation (if the specific generators and handlers are written of
course). this will be realized by domain specific profiles, which give
the model its semantics, i.e. a profile for python eggs, one for
archetypes, one for generic setup profiles, for dcworkflow, etc.

if someone now wants to generate python eggs with archetypes and a
gsprofile, she imports the corresponding profiles to the modeller (argo
or eclipse) and creates the diagram using the domain specific profile's
semantics.

the transformation chain then processes the corresponding generators and
handlers needed for the desired transformation setup.

AGX3 uses an internal uml representation and can not dump it (yet) back
to xmi.

hope this helps so far ;).

regards,

robert

> 
> Vincent
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day 
> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on 
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
> _______________________________________________
> Archetypes-users mailing list
> Archetypes-users@...
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Hi Robert!

> What do you mean with "exchange" models?

If I understand correctly, for AGX3 you are using eclipse tools to both
create profiles and use them for AGX3 models. This is new to me, I didn't
know this. In AGX2, many where using ArgoUML for modelling, so I wondered if
there is a need for changes in ArgoUML to continue to be useful. That's why
I offered to help with a UML2 based profile for AGX2.

Now I realized that for AGX3 a complete different set of profiles is needed,
so there probably is no need to migrate the current AGX2 profile to UML2.
(As Vincent pointed out: the dealing with tag definitions outside
stereotypes is an issue.) OK. But then, there must be other profiles which
are of interest for AGX3, so I want to check if these can be used in ArgoUML
for all those who want to continue to work with ArgoUML in AGX3. For this I
offered to exchange models if this is of help for you.

> if someone now wants to generate python eggs with archetypes and a
> gsprofile, she imports the corresponding profiles to the modeller (argo
> or eclipse) and creates the diagram using the domain specific profile's
> semantics.

I guess you mean with ArgoUML for AGX2 and eclipse for AGX3. I'd love to see
ArgoUML as an option in the AGX3 tool chain, which I stated above.

So, the answer to the question in the subject is "no", correct? We're now
discussing profiles for AGX3 only. I hope it became clear that I offered
help in case you want to continue to use ArgoUML here.

Regards,
Thomas
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Hi,

Am Montag, den 23.11.2009, 02:22 -0800 schrieb Thomas N.:
> Hi Robert!
> 
> > What do you mean with "exchange" models?
> 
> If I understand correctly, for AGX3 you are using eclipse tools to both
> create profiles and use them for AGX3 models.
Right.

> 
> Now I realized that for AGX3 a complete different set of profiles is needed,
> so there probably is no need to migrate the current AGX2 profile to UML2.
> (As Vincent pointed out: the dealing with tag definitions outside
> stereotypes is an issue.) OK. But then, there must be other profiles which
> are of interest for AGX3, so I want to check if these can be used in ArgoUML
> for all those who want to continue to work with ArgoUML in AGX3. For this I
> offered to exchange models if this is of help for you.
Thanks for this, we'll inform you as soon as the several profiles grow,
currently the only profile is "pyegg", we want to check against Argo
after the missing base work is done.

> 
> I guess you mean with ArgoUML for AGX2 and eclipse for AGX3. I'd love to see
> ArgoUML as an option in the AGX3 tool chain, which I stated above.
No i mean ArgoUML and AGX3. We want to deal with source from both. AGX2
is major as said earlier, and propably never adopted to UML2.

Hm, you use Eclipse EMF framework for your model representation, right?
And Eclipse Ecore does the same. Are the profiles then incompatible
anyway?

> 
> So, the answer to the question in the subject is "no", correct? We're now
> discussing profiles for AGX3 only.
Right

Regards, Robert

Hi Robert!


Robert Niederreiter wrote:
> 
> Hm, you use Eclipse EMF framework for your model representation, right?
> And Eclipse Ecore does the same. Are the profiles then incompatible
> anyway?
> 

We use eclipse UML2 and even EMF for our resource sets, so the profiles
should be compatible, I only never tested with other profiles then those
created with ArgoUML. The XMI always begins with: (you can see that we use
the most recent eclipse UML2 version)

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<uml:Profile xmi:version="2.1"
    xmlns:xmi="http://schema.omg.org/spec/XMI/2.1"
xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
    xmlns:uml="http://schema.omg.org/spec/UML/2.2"
xsi:schemaLocation="http://schema.omg.org/spec/UML/2.2
http://www.eclipse.org/uml2/3.0.0/UML" xmi:id="..."
    name="..." metaclassReference="...">

(In parallel, we also use Netbeans MDR to continue our UML1.4 support, btw.
So, we have two UML implementations under the hood. What a fun! ;-) )

Thomas
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Am Mon, 23 Nov 2009 02:22:59 -0800 schrieb Thomas N.:
... 
> I guess you mean with ArgoUML for AGX2 and eclipse for AGX3. I'd love to
> see ArgoUML as an option in the AGX3 tool chain, which I stated above.

I tried latest ArgoUML 0.29 with EUML and used its XMI output with our 
latest AGX. It seems it produces exact the same XMI as eclipse does. And 
our transformations are working with this XMI fine.

Our goal is to support modellers sticking to the UML2.2 and corresponding 
XMI standards. But for our early development we needed a reference 
implementation and therefore we took Eclipse Modelling Tools - also 
keeping in mind ArgoUML is migrating to use the same EUML-libs interally.

I'am really interested in early testing of ArgoUML for use as a reference 
modeller for AGX. Its much more lightweight and easier to use than 
Eclipse for just modelling. 

best regards

Jens
PS.: Is there any Undo-functionality planned for ArgoUML? Its the most 
missing feature IMO.
-- 
Jens W. Klein - Klein & Partner KEG - BlueDynamics Alliance

Jens W. Klein wrote:

> I'am really interested in early testing of ArgoUML for use as a reference
> modeller for AGX. Its much more lightweight and easier to use than
> Eclipse for just modelling.

While true, I can't say I've ever had much use for modelling without the 
other features of an IDE (workflow design is one possibility that comes to 
mind, though), which is why I've been making do with the less-than-stellar 
ArgoEclipse.

> PS.: Is there any Undo-functionality planned for ArgoUML? Its the most
> missing feature IMO.

That's what I miss most, too.  Regular saves and commits to SVN, and 
routinely restoring specific versions from SVN just doesn't cut it.  
Especially since the current Eclipse/beta argoeclipse combination only lets 
you save the model once, then you have to close and reopen it...
-- 
derek

Hi!

Derek Broughton-3 wrote:
> 
> Jens W. Klein wrote:
>> PS.: Is there any Undo-functionality planned for ArgoUML? Its the most
>> missing feature IMO.
> 
> That's what I miss most, too.  Regular saves and commits to SVN, and 
> routinely restoring specific versions from SVN just doesn't cut it.  
> Especially since the current Eclipse/beta argoeclipse combination only
> lets 
> you save the model once, then you have to close and reopen it...
> 

ArgoUML & Undo: I can't do promises, but I'm happy to openly explain what's
going on: we abandoned Undo/Redo for ArgoUML & Netbeans MDR (for technical
reasons), but we are committed for Undo/Redo for ArgoUML & eclipse UML2. We
have separated subsystems for diagramming and for the model repository. Our
graphics environment already supports Undo/Redo, and our eclipse based model
repository of course supports it, too. We already have most of our actions
implement an "Undoable" interface, now we need to crawl through all the code
to complete that work and get the glue working. Much work, few people, many
other tasks. But the roadmap is clear: first the UML1 to UML2 transition by
completing the eclipse modeling tool integration, then finish the Undo work.
(My private opinion: we'll then have a 1.0 release, yesssss!)

Call: any developer that wants to inspect our code if I'm talking the truth
(and maybe then decides to join and contribute, heehee) is warmly invited!!!
:-D

I can't comment on anything regarding ArgoEclipse, I'm simply not involved.

OK, we became off-topic. I'll contact you if there are news from our side
regarding UML2 and profiles. The next developer release 0.28.3 will be much
more usable regarding UML2 profiles, I already committed most of the work.
I'm looking forward to hear from AGX3 profiles.

Thank you for all your answers,
Thomas
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