On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 19:44:21 +0200 vvainikk@... babbled:
> I was reading distrowatch.com today and noticed that they had a news about
> upcoming ELiveCD release (0.4). I found something that struck me as a bit odd:
> This is the official wiki for EliveCD.org. Before I get to the point, some
> history regarding this E-Web ring: at least as far as I know, the idea was
> to form an official Enlightenment "circle" of sites (E, Edevelop, Get-E and
> EliveCD). In other words all of these sites are more or less heavily related
> (to the point of being "official" sites) to the Enlightenment project. If
> I'm wrong about this, please correct me, but this is the impression I have
> been under.
> This new ELiveCD.org wiki includes these pages:
> To get to the actual point, it seems like the EliveCD project is in the
> process of setting up a commercial club like mandrake used to do
> (mandrakeclub). To quote their wiki:
> Elive Club is a growing international community of users and developers.
> Our financial aim is to pay for a Premium Server for Priority Updates for
> club members
> and eventually to be able to allow the core developers to work on Elive
> (However, there is no intention to exclude non-members from enjoying Elive
> Support Elive with a donation (orange Donate button at your right) or a
> special contribution
> and become a member of the Elive Club, a great community of people worldwide.
> Donations of 10 euro qualify you to be a Member and take advantage of
> the Support community here for a full year, so please join Now :-).
> We are preparing the server infrastructure for privileged access to faster
> repositories and up-to-the-minute security updates with automatic alerts for
> our Members
> and many more offers to come. Joining now will make you profit right from
> the start.
> (and the "Support" page mentions that in order to get write access to the
> wiki, you also need to pay and join the premium club)
> What this means is that they are apparently going to offer commercial
> premium services to certain people who are ok to pay the price to join the
> premium club.
> This raises a lot of questions. There's a big difference between having one
> banner to pay some of the hosting fees, or perhaps having a "please donate
> money" banner somewhere on the site, and actually launching a commercial
> premium member club. Before the ELiveCD.org people flame me, I am merely
> pointing this out - this is something the people in charge of the
> Enlightenment project deserve to know about.
> If the ELiveCD project is indeed going commercial, there should be some
> discussion regarding their inclusion in the official E-web ring. Currently
> it looks like they are part of the official Enlightenment project, as their
> site is directly linked on the main Enlightenment.org website, and they also
> use the same website template as all the other more or less official sites
> (Get-E and Edevelop).
> So to get the actual point, are the people who set up this E-web ring
> (raster & co) ok with this? What I mean is, that their (EliveCD.org)
> commercial venture is currently directly linked to the Enlightenment
> project, not simply on a "we are a third party site that does something E
> related" kind of style - it looks as if the project is officially "ok":d by
> the Enlightenment project. And currently the project is officially "ok":d by
> it, but when that was decided, EliveCD did not have any commercial aspect.
> My personal opinion is that if EliveCD.org is to go ahead with their
> commercial venture, they should not use the official Enlightenment website
> page layout, nor should they be linked like they currently are (=linked as
> if it is part of the official project). We could of course still add link to
> them on the links page, but it is different than to be a member of the
> "official E-web triangle". But that is up to discussion, and I know I'm not
> the one to decide these things. This whole situation deserves some
> discussion and re-evaluating though.
> As a closing comment I'd like to add that I'm not trying to bash the ELiveCD
> project people (their liveCD is fantastic), they are free to do whatever
> they wish of course, but it is obvious that this topic needs to be brought up.
> (vrln on IRC, one of the Get-E.org people)
ok - here's my take.
1. i don't begrudge anyone making money off e - they have a right to. we would
hope if they make good money it would somehow come back to us eventually. 2. i
realise hosting ISO's of a distribution uses a LOT OF BANDWIDTH and that kind
of bandwidth it expensive. attempting to help cover costs by getting a club,
donation etc. is a valid thing to do i think. 3. i dont think any such club or
closed site/community/whatever should be PART of the ring. it shouldnt use the
same graphics from the e ring sites (those graphics ARE copyright
enlightenment.org - and thus we technically can control their copying,
distribution and use - and use is fine as it is as being part of the ring). i
thik it would be fair and good of us to link TO such closed clubs/etc. or
commercial enterprises FROM ring sites where appropriate as a pointer to "if
you want to pay - pay here and you may get faster downloads etc.". 4. you do
raise a point that we need to have some common agrred on policy. i know views
may range from "they are charging money! we hate them - people charging money!
evil devil spawn" to "whatever - i don't care" and anything in between. i think
we should NOT begrudge someone tryign to recoup costs or improve services by
getting money to pay for them.
i personalyl think this is an interesting project. in our esperience so far the
numebr of people willing to put money where their mouths are are few and far
between - donations to e have been abysmal. we might be able to afford a new
gfx card for someone - and thats it - from several years of donations. wedon't
have enough to do much useful with. i would like to see if "if you donate $x
you get something in return other than the feel-good feeling" works
------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) raster@...
Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本)