Enhanced Machine Controller

I've just upgraded my machine to Ubuntu 8.04 using the EMC2 live CD.

I've been working on a jog pendant and DRO using an Arduino Diecimila
and everything was working fine with Ubuntu 6.06, but since the upgrade
neither the Arduino IDE nor my Python interface code can talk to either
of my Arduino boards. (They still work fine with my Windows PC, so it's
not the hardware).

It seems that the Arduino is not picking up a driver. dmesg shows:

[  198.610819] usb 3-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and
address 4
[  198.808664] usb 3-1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice

and lsusb gives:

Bus 004 Device 001: ID 0000:0000  
Bus 003 Device 004: ID 0403:6001 Future Technology Devices
International, Ltd FT232 USB-Serial (UART) IC
Bus 003 Device 003: ID 067b:2303 Prolific Technology, Inc. PL2303 Serial
Port
Bus 003 Device 001: ID 0000:0000  
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 0000:0000  
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000

but ls /dev/ttyUSB* gives only:

/dev/ttyUSB0

Which is the Prolific USB to serial converter - there is no sign of the
Arduino.

Poking around a bit, it looks like the ftdi_sio driver is missing from
the system. I've tried building it from source without success (it's
marked as experimental, and I don't know how to get it to build with the
other USB serial drivers)

Has anyone else got the Arduino running with 8.04? If so, what's the
trick?

Steve

I haven't tested this myself, and it will be a time-consuming process,
but you can rebuild the realtime kernel with this driver included.

0. Because you're going to overwrite the installed kernel, install a
generic kernel so you can still boot even if something goes wrong
with the new kernel you're installing
    sudo apt-get install linux-image-2.6.24-16-generic
(if you can live with rebooting between work on arduino and work on emc,
maybe it's sufficient to stop here -- the -generic kernel should have
the ftdi_sio driver available)

1. Prepare your system with packages needed to rebuild the kernel
    sudo apt-get install build-essential fakeroot
    sudo apt-get build-dep linux-image-2.6.24-16-rtai

2. Get the kernel source in a subdirectory of the current directory
    wget http://linuxcnc.org/hardy/dists/hardy/base/source/linux_2.6.24-16.30.linuxcnc.1.tar.gz
    wget http://linuxcnc.org/hardy/dists/hardy/base/source/linux_2.6.24-16.30.linuxcnc.1.dsc

3. Extract the kernel source
        dpkg-src -x linux_2.6.24-16.30.linuxcnc.1.dsc

4. Change to the linux-2.6.24 directory and apply this patch with 'patch -p0':

--- debian/binary-custom.d/rtai/config.i386.1	2008-09-20 15:24:36.000000000 -0500
+++ debian/binary-custom.d/rtai/config.i386	2008-09-20 15:24:45.000000000 -0500
@@ -2905,7 +2905,7 @@
 # CONFIG_USB_SERIAL_CP2101 is not set
 # CONFIG_USB_SERIAL_CYPRESS_M8 is not set
 CONFIG_USB_SERIAL_EMPEG=m
-# CONFIG_USB_SERIAL_FTDI_SIO is not set
+CONFIG_USB_SERIAL_FTDI_SIO=m
 CONFIG_USB_SERIAL_FUNSOFT=m
 CONFIG_USB_SERIAL_VISOR=m
 CONFIG_USB_SERIAL_IPAQ=m

5. Build the binary package
    NOEXTRAS=1 fakeroot debian/rules custom-binary-rtai

6. Install the package
    sudo dpkg -i ../linux-image*.deb

7. Reboot and test the new kernel (with two kernels you may need to
choose the rtai kernel at the boot menu)

8. If you're satisfied with the new kernel, you can remove the
linux-2.6.24 directory and the linux-image-2.6.24-16-generic package you
installed.

Jeff

Wow!

Thanks, but before I dive in so deeply, how likely is it that the
problem really is the missing ftdi_sio driver? Was this driver included
in the Ubuntu 6.06 / EMC2 Live CD installation? (I never checked,
because it all just worked)

Steve

On Sat, 2008-09-20 at 15:37 -0500, Jeff Epler wrote:
> I haven't tested this myself, and it will be a time-consuming process,
> but you can rebuild the realtime kernel with this driver included.
> 
> 8< snip ...
>
> 8. If you're satisfied with the new kernel, you can remove the
> linux-2.6.24 directory and the linux-image-2.6.24-16-generic package you
> installed.
> 
> Jeff
> 
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It probably was..
Try as Jeff suggested, install a generic kernel, and reboot using that one.
Of that makes the arduino talk to the IDE you mentioned, then it's probably 
the missing module.
Then you get 2 choices :) Either install 6.06 again, which is probably a bit 
of a pain,
or follow those instructions to build the module (or tell us how the first 
observation went, and I'll try to build and send you the module).

Regards,
Alex

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Hobbs" <steve.hobbs@...>
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 12:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Arduino with Ubuntu 8.04


> Wow!
>
> Thanks, but before I dive in so deeply, how likely is it that the
> problem really is the missing ftdi_sio driver? Was this driver included
> in the Ubuntu 6.06 / EMC2 Live CD installation? (I never checked,
> because it all just worked)
>
> Steve
>
> On Sat, 2008-09-20 at 15:37 -0500, Jeff Epler wrote:
>> I haven't tested this myself, and it will be a time-consuming process,
>> but you can rebuild the realtime kernel with this driver included.
>>
>> 8< snip ...
>>
>> 8. If you're satisfied with the new kernel, you can remove the
>> linux-2.6.24 directory and the linux-image-2.6.24-16-generic package you
>> installed.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's 
>> challenge
>> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great 
>> prizes
>> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the 
>> world
>> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's 
> challenge
> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great 
> prizes
> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the 
> world
> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> _______________________________________________
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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10:24

Alex, thanks for the clarification.
I've now installed the generic kernel and it correctly finds the ftdi
device - this is what dmesg reports:

33.695614] /build/buildd/linux-2.6.24/drivers/usb/serial/usb-serial.c:
USB Serial support registered for FTDI USB Serial Device
[   33.695657] ftdi_sio 3-1:1.0: FTDI USB Serial Device converter
detected
[   33.695695] /build/buildd/linux-2.6.24/drivers/usb/serial/ftdi_sio.c:
Detected FT232RL
[   33.695865] usb 3-1: FTDI USB Serial Device converter now attached to
ttyUSB0
[   33.695888] usbcore: registered new interface driver ftdi_sio
[   33.695892] /build/buildd/linux-2.6.24/drivers/usb/serial/ftdi_sio.c:
v1.4.3:U

But the Arduino IDE still fails to communicate with the Diecimila board.
Clearly I need to do some digging on the Arduino forum.

But I'm confused. On 6 September 2008 Jeff Epler wrote (in response to
another Arduino query):

> I'm not sure what to tell you -- I just tested the code from
> http://axis.unpy.net/01198594294 again and it (still) works for me.
> Today, I'm using emc 2.2, ubuntu 8.04, and the arduino diecimilila
> board.  The sketch was compiled using arduino 0010.

This is the same setup I'm struggling with, so Jeff, did you have to do 
some magic with the drivers to get it working on the real-time kernel?

Steve

On Sun, 2008-09-21 at 01:37 +0300, Alex Joni wrote:
> It probably was..
> Try as Jeff suggested, install a generic kernel, and reboot using that one.
> Of that makes the arduino talk to the IDE you mentioned, then it's probably 
> the missing module.
> Then you get 2 choices :) Either install 6.06 again, which is probably a bit 
> of a pain,
> or follow those instructions to build the module (or tell us how the first 
> observation went, and I'll try to build and send you the module).
> 
> Regards,
> Alex
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve Hobbs" <steve.hobbs@...>
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@...>
> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 12:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Arduino with Ubuntu 8.04
> 
> 
> > Wow!
> >
> > Thanks, but before I dive in so deeply, how likely is it that the
> > problem really is the missing ftdi_sio driver? Was this driver included
> > in the Ubuntu 6.06 / EMC2 Live CD installation? (I never checked,
> > because it all just worked)
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > On Sat, 2008-09-20 at 15:37 -0500, Jeff Epler wrote:
> >> I haven't tested this myself, and it will be a time-consuming process,
> >> but you can rebuild the realtime kernel with this driver included.
> >>
> >> 8< snip ...
> >>
> >> 8. If you're satisfied with the new kernel, you can remove the
> >> linux-2.6.24 directory and the linux-image-2.6.24-16-generic package you
> >> installed.
> >>
> >> Jeff
> >>

On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 12:40:09AM +0100, Steve Hobbs wrote:
> > I'm not sure what to tell you -- I just tested the code from
> > http://axis.unpy.net/01198594294 again and it (still) works for me.
> > Today, I'm using emc 2.2, ubuntu 8.04, and the arduino diecimilila
> > board.  The sketch was compiled using arduino 0010.
> 
> This is the same setup I'm struggling with, so Jeff, did you have to do 
> some magic with the drivers to get it working on the real-time kernel?

actually, for that test I was using my laptop with the "sim" version of
emc which can't control actual hardware, but also runs using any kernel
-- so I was on the ubuntu -generic kernel at the time.

Jeff

I don't have any experience with arduino on linux except for the usage  
with emc2. But, just to make sure, are you 100% certain that you  
choose the correct serial port and the correct arduino board in the  
arduino interface?

I assume you have read the instructions for ubuntu at the arduino  
site? http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Linux/Ubuntu Maybe you don't  
have the right librxtx-java?

Dirk

OK, here's what I've found so far.

1. The ftdi_sio driver is included in the generic 8.04 kernel and the 
   Arduino attaches to port /dev/ttyUSB0 as expected.

1.1. Both GtkTerm and the Python serial library can then communicate
     with the Arduino (I programmed it to act like a serial loopback) 
     so the driver appears to be working correctly.

1.2. The Arduino IDE still fails to connect to the board, firing a Java
     exception:
     gnu.io.UnsupportedCommOperationException: Invalid Parameter
     This seems to be an Arduino problem that I'll pursue elsewhere
     (Thanks for your comments Dirk: I'm sure I have the right port and
     I've tried replacing librtx-java with no effect).
     Meanwhile, I can program the Arduino from a Windows XP machine.

1.3  I haven't yet finished testing whether I can get the Arduino
     talking to the EMC2 sim since I need to hack around with my 
     config to do so. Jeff's comments and my own tests with Python
     imply that it should work.

2. The ftdi_sio driver is missing from the 8.04 rtai kernel, so the
   Arduino fails to attach to a port 

2.1  Since there's no port attached, neither GtkTerm nor Python can talk
     to the Arduino.

2.2  I tried using the generic USB serial driver as per instruction on
     the RepRap forum. (http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?12,4546) 
     The Arduino does bind to a port but generates a constant stream of
     garbage input in GtkTerm and Python.

3. I conclude I need the ftdi_sio driver for the 8.04 rtai kernel.
   (I suspect anyone else trying to use the Arduino Diecimila will
   also).

3.1  I tried to follow Jeff's instructions to build the kernel with
     the driver included, but came off the rails at step 3 with:
     dpkg-src: command not found

3.2  I tried unpacking the source manually and building from it but 
     hit many errors so I was evidently missing some magic!

So please can someone advise how to complete the build process. I'd like
to know how to build this driver module myself, but if someone has it
built already I'd be glad to give it a try.

And a final dumb question so you can be sure how little I know: I can't
simply use the ftdi_sio.ko from the generic kernel with the rtai kernel,
can I?

Steve

On Sat, 2008-09-20 at 15:37 -0500, Jeff Epler wrote:
> I haven't tested this myself, and it will be a time-consuming process,
> but you can rebuild the realtime kernel with this driver included.
> 
> 0. Because you're going to overwrite the installed kernel, install a
> generic kernel so you can still boot even if something goes wrong
> with the new kernel you're installing
>     sudo apt-get install linux-image-2.6.24-16-generic
> (if you can live with rebooting between work on arduino and work on emc,
> maybe it's sufficient to stop here -- the -generic kernel should have
> the ftdi_sio driver available)
> 
> 1. Prepare your system with packages needed to rebuild the kernel
>     sudo apt-get install build-essential fakeroot
>     sudo apt-get build-dep linux-image-2.6.24-16-rtai
> 
> 2. Get the kernel source in a subdirectory of the current directory
>     wget http://linuxcnc.org/hardy/dists/hardy/base/source/linux_2.6.24-16.30.linuxcnc.1.tar.gz
>     wget http://linuxcnc.org/hardy/dists/hardy/base/source/linux_2.6.24-16.30.linuxcnc.1.dsc
> 
> 3. Extract the kernel source
>         dpkg-src -x linux_2.6.24-16.30.linuxcnc.1.dsc
> 
> 4. Change to the linux-2.6.24 directory and apply this patch with 'patch -p0':
> 
> --- debian/binary-custom.d/rtai/config.i386.1	2008-09-20 15:24:36.000000000 -0500
> +++ debian/binary-custom.d/rtai/config.i386	2008-09-20 15:24:45.000000000 -0500
> @@ -2905,7 +2905,7 @@
>  # CONFIG_USB_SERIAL_CP2101 is not set
>  # CONFIG_USB_SERIAL_CYPRESS_M8 is not set
>  CONFIG_USB_SERIAL_EMPEG=m
> -# CONFIG_USB_SERIAL_FTDI_SIO is not set
> +CONFIG_USB_SERIAL_FTDI_SIO=m
>  CONFIG_USB_SERIAL_FUNSOFT=m
>  CONFIG_USB_SERIAL_VISOR=m
>  CONFIG_USB_SERIAL_IPAQ=m
> 
> 5. Build the binary package
>     NOEXTRAS=1 fakeroot debian/rules custom-binary-rtai
> 
> 6. Install the package
>     sudo dpkg -i ../linux-image*.deb
> 
> 7. Reboot and test the new kernel (with two kernels you may need to
> choose the rtai kernel at the boot menu)
> 
> 8. If you're satisfied with the new kernel, you can remove the
> linux-2.6.24 directory and the linux-image-2.6.24-16-generic package you
> installed.
> 
> Jeff

On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 05:54:34PM +0100, Steve Hobbs wrote:
> 3.1  I tried to follow Jeff's instructions to build the kernel with
>      the driver included, but came off the rails at step 3 with:
>      dpkg-src: command not found
looks like I meant dpkg-source

Jeff

On 21 sep 2008, at 18:54, Steve Hobbs wrote:

> OK, here's what I've found so far.
>
> 1. The ftdi_sio driver is included in the generic 8.04 kernel and the
>   Arduino attaches to port /dev/ttyUSB0 as expected.
>
> 1.1. Both GtkTerm and the Python serial library can then communicate
>     with the Arduino (I programmed it to act like a serial loopback)
>     so the driver appears to be working correctly.
>
> 1.2. The Arduino IDE still fails to connect to the board, firing a  
> Java
>     exception:
>     gnu.io.UnsupportedCommOperationException: Invalid Parameter

I only found 2 threads on the arduino about this. I am not sure they  
will be of any help.
>
>     This seems to be an Arduino problem that I'll pursue elsewhere
>     (Thanks for your comments Dirk: I'm sure I have the right port and
>     I've tried replacing librtx-java with no effect).
>     Meanwhile, I can program the Arduino from a Windows XP machine.
>
> 1.3  I haven't yet finished testing whether I can get the Arduino
>     talking to the EMC2 sim since I need to hack around with my
>     config to do so. Jeff's comments and my own tests with Python
>     imply that it should work.
>
> 2. The ftdi_sio driver is missing from the 8.04 rtai kernel, so the
>   Arduino fails to attach to a port
>
> 2.1  Since there's no port attached, neither GtkTerm nor Python can  
> talk
>     to the Arduino.
>
> 2.2  I tried using the generic USB serial driver as per instruction on
>     the RepRap forum. (http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?12,4546)
>     The Arduino does bind to a port but generates a constant stream of
>     garbage input in GtkTerm and Python.
>
Ok, if you really want to try it. Why not use the serial pins 0 and 1  
from the deicimila? You need something in between like a max232 to get  
the voltage levels from and to rs232<>TTL.

> 3. I conclude I need the ftdi_sio driver for the 8.04 rtai kernel.
>   (I suspect anyone else trying to use the Arduino Diecimila will
>   also).
>
> 3.1  I tried to follow Jeff's instructions to build the kernel with
>     the driver included, but came off the rails at step 3 with:
>     dpkg-src: command not found
>
> 3.2  I tried unpacking the source manually and building from it but
>     hit many errors so I was evidently missing some magic!
>
> So please can someone advise how to complete the build process. I'd  
> like
> to know how to build this driver module myself, but if someone has it
> built already I'd be glad to give it a try.
>
Again, I only know ubuntu from emc2. But I have been using debian for  
years. If you are lucky you can use the debian way of compiling  
kernels. This will solve dependency's too. Try: apt-get install kernel- 
kpkg" this will install all stuff needed to compile your own kernel in  
a nice .deb package. Follow this guide: http://www.howtoforge.com/kernel_compilation_debian_etch 
   You need some more packages to do a "make menuconfig", just follow  
the instructions from the howto.

> And a final dumb question so you can be sure how little I know: I  
> can't
> simply use the ftdi_sio.ko from the generic kernel with the rtai  
> kernel,
> can I?

I was thinking the same thing. Trying doesn't hurt. As long as you are  
not machining anything at the same moment. Go to "/lib/modules/name of  
generic kernel" and look for the ftdi module. (find * -name *ftdi* )  
Insert it with insmod.

I am trying to to compile a kernel with ubuntu, but this is on a mac  
with parallels.

Dirk

On 21 sep 2008, at 19:25, Jeff Epler wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 05:54:34PM +0100, Steve Hobbs wrote:
>> 3.1  I tried to follow Jeff's instructions to build the kernel with
>>     the driver included, but came off the rails at step 3 with:
>>     dpkg-src: command not found
> looks like I meant dpkg-source

:-) Just in time. I was just following your instructions.

Inserting the module doesn't work BTW. Probably because it would have  
been way to easy.

Dirk

On Sunday 21 September 2008, Dirk wrote:
> If you are lucky you can use the debian way of compiling  
> kernels. This will solve dependency's too. Try: apt-get install kernel-
> kpkg" this will install all stuff needed to compile your own kernel in  
> a nice .deb package.

That should be kernel-package - However, Ver 11.001 currently produces 
slightly broken header packages for 2.6.24 (and up). See:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=475029 for a workround.

Have a patch (almost) ready to send to the package maintainer(s), so an 
updated version could be out soon.


Regards, Paul.

Fantastic - it works! Thank you for your help Jeff.

Just for the record then, I've rebuilt and installed the kernel
according to Jeff's recipe and now the Arduino talks happily with EMC2
again.

The Arduino IDE still fails to connect to the Arduino board, but that's
for another day since I can program the board from a Windows PC.

What happens next though? Will I forever be operating with a patched
branch of the Ubuntu kernel, or will there be an update that includes
this driver so I can return to the comfort of a release version?

Steve


On Sun, 2008-09-21 at 12:25 -0500, Jeff Epler wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 05:54:34PM +0100, Steve Hobbs wrote:
> > 3.1  I tried to follow Jeff's instructions to build the kernel with
> >      the driver included, but came off the rails at step 3 with:
> >      dpkg-src: command not found
> looks like I meant dpkg-source
> 
> Jeff

Sorry, me again.

Update manager has just popped up to offer me one update:
linux-image-2.6.24-16-rtai.

It looks like it wants to reinstall the release kernel in place of my
patch. Any idea why? Do I just have to keep saying No?

Steve

On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:23:04 +0100, you wrote:

>Axis usability.
>
>Two things spring to mind, in feedhold, if you damage an insert, how do
>you replace it? In Mach, I'd feedhold, jog away, replace the insert then
>press cycle start and the machine would carry on, I have the choice of
>from exactly the same position it stopped in, or anywhere else as a
>"safe move".
>
>Secondly, on my router I don't use tool tables, it's not practical as it
>uses collets and there's no stop to make most tool positioning
>repeatable. I also use CAM and it programs the corrected path for tool
>diameter, so there's no real reason to.
>
>My normal method is touch off tool 1 and zero all axis, run that tool,
>when Mach pauses for next toolchange, I jog upwards, change the tool,
>jog back down until tool touches and re-zero Z, then press cycle start
>again and off it goes. 
>
>Is the above possible in EMC?

No comments? - I'm disappointed.

I notice somebody else posted a tracker for jogging back in march - 
#1926697 - still at level 1 and assigned to nobody :(

Steve Blackmore
--

emc (and so this is a limitation shared by all the GUIs, not just axis)
is designed to separate different activities into different "modes".  In
"auto" mode, you can run a program and in "manual" mode you can do
things like jog.  There's no way for a running program to switch out of
"auto" into "manual" temporarily.  It would take a substantial amount of
coding to change this.

Jeff

On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:55:56 -0500, you wrote:

>emc (and so this is a limitation shared by all the GUIs, not just axis)
>is designed to separate different activities into different "modes".  In
>"auto" mode, you can run a program and in "manual" mode you can do
>things like jog.  There's no way for a running program to switch out of
>"auto" into "manual" temporarily.  It would take a substantial amount of
>coding to change this.

Hi Jeff - thanks for the answer, but a major drawback IMO :(

It doesn't make EMC very user friendly for those without toolchangers or
setable tool lengths, only way around it I can see is load each tool as
a separate program, and if you happen to break an insert or tool - I
guess your sunk. 

Steve Blackmore
--

Steve Blackmore wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:23:04 +0100, you wrote:
>
>   
>> Axis usability.
>>
>> Two things spring to mind, in feedhold, if you damage an insert, how do
>> you replace it? In Mach, I'd feedhold, jog away, replace the insert then
>> press cycle start and the machine would carry on, I have the choice of
>>     
> >from exactly the same position it stopped in, or anywhere else as a
>   
>> "safe move".
>>
>> Secondly, on my router I don't use tool tables, it's not practical as it
>> uses collets and there's no stop to make most tool positioning
>> repeatable. I also use CAM and it programs the corrected path for tool
>> diameter, so there's no real reason to.
>>
>> My normal method is touch off tool 1 and zero all axis, run that tool,
>> when Mach pauses for next toolchange, I jog upwards, change the tool,
>> jog back down until tool touches and re-zero Z, then press cycle start
>> again and off it goes. 
>>
>> Is the above possible in EMC?
>>     
>
> No comments? - I'm disappointed.
>   
Yeah, this has been a traditional problem with EMC.  Forever.
In the middle of a program, you can pause and then continue.  But, there 
really is no provision to pause, make a manual move, and then continue 
with the program seamlessly.  I think you can't alter offsets, either, 
while paused, but maybe you can.  After making any manual moves, you 
have to know the G-code block to restart from, search for that line in 
the G-code display window and click the "start from line" button in the 
menu.  EMC2 does scan the entire program to make sure it is in the right 
mode for the line it will start from, except it won't start the spindle, 
so you need a manual override.


Jon

Steve Blackmore wrote:
> Hi Jeff - thanks for the answer, but a major drawback IMO :(
>
> It doesn't make EMC very user friendly for those without toolchangers or
> setable tool lengths, only way around it I can see is load each tool as
> a separate program,
Yup, that's how you learn to work around it.
>  and if you happen to break an insert or tool - I
> guess your sunk. 

No, at least Axis will hold the currently executing line on the screen so you can remember the line number when you pause.  After changing the tool and resetting the length, you highlight that line and click on "start from line" in the machine menu (I think), and then hit R for run.  It will restart at that line.

Jon

I would like to vote for this feature to be added as well. It's a bit of 
a chore to keep loading a new g-code file for each tool just to cut one 
piece.

Andy

Steve Blackmore wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:55:56 -0500, you wrote:
> 
>> emc (and so this is a limitation shared by all the GUIs, not just axis)
>> is designed to separate different activities into different "modes".  In
>> "auto" mode, you can run a program and in "manual" mode you can do
>> things like jog.  There's no way for a running program to switch out of
>> "auto" into "manual" temporarily.  It would take a substantial amount of
>> coding to change this.
> 
> Hi Jeff - thanks for the answer, but a major drawback IMO :(
> 
> It doesn't make EMC very user friendly for those without toolchangers or
> setable tool lengths, only way around it I can see is load each tool as
> a separate program, and if you happen to break an insert or tool - I
> guess your sunk. 
> 
> Steve Blackmore
> --
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
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> 
> 
> 

-- 
Andy
PGP Key ID: 0xDC1B5864

I guess I don't know why this would be difficult to implement.

For trivkins based machines, I would think that one could do all of this 
in HAL. While the program is paused, it should be possible to use some 
adder blocks with input from special jog blocks to cause the position to 
change based on input from some VCP buttons.

The spindle could be stopped using VCP buttons.

After the tool is changed, the X, Y could be restored to the original 
positions. A Z axis offset could be left in place.

I've never done anything with HAL, but from what I've seen, this should 
be pretty easy. It might look a little (or a lot) kludgy, but the 
functionality should be easy to get.

What am I missing?

Ken

Jon Elson wrote:
> Steve Blackmore wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:23:04 +0100, you wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> Axis usability.
>>>
>>> Two things spring to mind, in feedhold, if you damage an insert, how do
>>> you replace it? In Mach, I'd feedhold, jog away, replace the insert then
>>> press cycle start and the machine would carry on, I have the choice of
>>>     
>> >from exactly the same position it stopped in, or anywhere else as a
>>   
>>> "safe move".
>>>
>>> Secondly, on my router I don't use tool tables, it's not practical as it
>>> uses collets and there's no stop to make most tool positioning
>>> repeatable. I also use CAM and it programs the corrected path for tool
>>> diameter, so there's no real reason to.
>>>
>>> My normal method is touch off tool 1 and zero all axis, run that tool,
>>> when Mach pauses for next toolchange, I jog upwards, change the tool,
>>> jog back down until tool touches and re-zero Z, then press cycle start
>>> again and off it goes. 
>>>
>>> Is the above possible in EMC?
>>>     
>> No comments? - I'm disappointed.
>>   
> Yeah, this has been a traditional problem with EMC.  Forever.
> In the middle of a program, you can pause and then continue.  But, there 
> really is no provision to pause, make a manual move, and then continue 
> with the program seamlessly.  I think you can't alter offsets, either, 
> while paused, but maybe you can.  After making any manual moves, you 
> have to know the G-code block to restart from, search for that line in 
> the G-code display window and click the "start from line" button in the 
> menu.  EMC2 does scan the entire program to make sure it is in the right 
> mode for the line it will start from, except it won't start the spindle, 
> so you need a manual override.
> 
> 
> Jon
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
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> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Steve,

> Hi Jeff - thanks for the answer, but a major drawback IMO :(
>
> It doesn't make EMC very user friendly for those without toolchangers or
> setable tool lengths, only way around it I can see is load each tool as
> a separate program, and if you happen to break an insert or tool - I
> guess your sunk.

Whilst dabbling with EMC on my lathe I have noticed it is *very* modal 
between Jog and MDI mode.
I am used to being able to jog and then type in an MDI command, then jog, 
then MDI etc.
e.g. I tend to start/stop the spindle using MDI commands and then the arrow 
keys to jog etc.

As soon as I touch the TABs at the top of the axis screen to go from one 
mode to the other, it e-stops the machine, which is really quite 
infuriating!

Simon

On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:54:01 -0500, you wrote:

>Steve Blackmore wrote:
>> Hi Jeff - thanks for the answer, but a major drawback IMO :(
>>
>> It doesn't make EMC very user friendly for those without toolchangers or
>> setable tool lengths, only way around it I can see is load each tool as
>> a separate program,

>Yup, that's how you learn to work around it.

Hi Jon

It is only a work around, at best.

>>  and if you happen to break an insert or tool - I
>> guess your sunk. 
>
>No, at least Axis will hold the currently executing line on the screen so you can remember the line number when you pause.  After changing the tool and resetting the length, you highlight that line and click on "start from line" in the machine menu (I think), and then hit R for run.  It will restart at that line.

Yea - you need to pause, then note line, then stop, then jog, then set
next line, then run. Can't jog until you stop.

Steve Blackmore
--

I was the culprit that posted that SourceForge request to way back before I read a lot more of the docs, got active on the list and investigated the examples included.  I don't have much time right now, or the clarity of thought to rehash what I ended up learning, but my intent was to look for a way to run a macro and there is an example included in the EMC2 stuff that shows how to use the probe command with variable and touch the Z off to a machine point thereby setting the Z for the new tool.  It has been discussed on the list since then and a link posted -
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Chris Radek 
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 8:01 AM
  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] R: New user new problem


  On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 10:33:00AM +0200, snoopy wrote:
  > 
  > Whit a collet I can do the change correctly, but I?m more happy if I
  > find an automatically zero tool procedure whit a switch/probe.

  http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/nc_files/tool-length-probe.ngc?rev=1.4

  This Gcode program shows how I do that.  This sample file is also in
  the EMC2 distribution.
That was posted back in August and basically does what I was looking for in automating the Z length at a tool change with a simple insulated pad mounted to a fixed position on the table and connected to the probe input (basically a piece of single sided PC board bolted to the T slots at a spot I don't really use commonly but is available to the spindle centerline - single sided PCB material keeps it insulated from the table so the tool touching can complete the probe circuit).  By moving in the machine coordinate system (as opposed to an offset coordinate system) the position is easily repeated, the Z zero of the new tool calculated, and that dimension applied to the Z value converting it to the new Z for the newly inserted tool, obviously you need to run it at the start so the original tool length is saved as the initial reference to correctly calculate everything from there on.  

I haven't actually used it yet (been laid up with some medical issues and the last thing I have had time to do is work on my hobbyist mill).  Others may have additional requirements they are looking for but I really should have gone back and canceled that request as this method solves the problem for me.  It may not be as nifty as a GUI button to do it as a "Macro" but you can easily set the code as a O code that you call when you run a tool change.  Not hard to insert that into a .ngc file and then search for each M6 and add the O call immediately following that before starting any more operations.

My .02 HTH YMMV :)

Greg
 http://www.distinctperspectives.com

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steve Blackmore 
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
  Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 3:57 PM
  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Axis question


  On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:54:01 -0500, you wrote:

  >Steve Blackmore wrote:
  >> Hi Jeff - thanks for the answer, but a major drawback IMO :(
  >>
  >> It doesn't make EMC very user friendly for those without toolchangers or
  >> setable tool lengths, only way around it I can see is load each tool as
  >> a separate program,

  >Yup, that's how you learn to work around it.

  Hi Jon

  It is only a work around, at best.

  >>  and if you happen to break an insert or tool - I
  >> guess your sunk. 
  >
  >No, at least Axis will hold the currently executing line on the screen so you can remember the line number when you pause.  After changing the tool and resetting the length, you highlight that line and click on "start from line" in the machine menu (I think), and then hit R for run.  It will restart at that line.

  Yea - you need to pause, then note line, then stop, then jog, then set
  next line, then run. Can't jog until you stop.

  Steve Blackmore
  --

  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
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  Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
  Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release Date: 9/21/2008 10:10 AM

Kenneth Lerman wrote:
> I guess I don't know why this would be difficult to implement.
>
> For trivkins based machines, I would think that one could do all of this 
> in HAL. While the program is paused, it should be possible to use some 
> adder blocks with input from special jog blocks to cause the position to 
> change based on input from some VCP buttons.
>
>   
I think this is done now on the Mazak, etc. to clear the workspace for 
tool changes.
But, you can't do it directly using all the existing methods such as 
manual jog, MDI and so on.

Jon

On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:16:44 -0400, you wrote:

>That was posted back in August and basically does what I was looking for in automating the Z length at a tool change with a simple insulated pad mounted to a fixed position on the table and connected to the probe input (basically a piece of single sided PC board bolted to the T slots at a spot I don't really use commonly but is available to the spindle centerline - single sided PCB material keeps it insulated from the table so the tool touching can complete the probe circuit).  By moving in the machine coordinate system (as opposed to an offset coordinate system) the position is easily repeated, the Z zero of the new tool calculated, and that dimension applied to the Z value converting it to the new Z for the newly inserted tool, obviously you need to run it at the start so the original tool length is saved as the initial reference to correctly calculate everything from there on.  

>My .02 HTH YMMV :)

It does ;)

Already looked at that, more cons than pros - a simple insulated pad
won't work for me, the router/engraver spindle head is double insulated,
it would have to be a switch of some sort, or messing about with
temporary grounding wires. Also finding a suitable spot that's not in
the way of varying sizes of work is a problem, it would have to be
movable. Pressing one with some of the expensive small inlay bit's I use
is a big problem. The only way I've reliably got them to survive
touching off is having them rotating at cutting rpm, creeping down to
the work surface and watching for a mark, then press Z Zero - not
elegant but it works. 

Steve Blackmore
--

On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 08:25:18PM -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
>
> I think this is done now on the Mazak, etc. to clear the workspace for 
> tool changes.

The Mazak uses plain old TOOL_CHANGE_POSITION.

http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:%5BEMCIO%5D-Section

The final piece of the jigsaw, in case anyone has similar problems.

The Arduino IDE wouldn't talk to the Arduino board because
serial.debug_rate in ~/.arduino/preferences.txt was set to 14400, a
value not supported by the port (something to do with the ftdi_sio
driver?).

Setting this value to 9600 cured my final problem.

The relevant thread on the Arduino forum is:
http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1222121634

I am home - what do you want to do about suzi?

love you
sam
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Hobbs" <steve.hobbs@...>
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Arduino with Ubuntu 8.04


> The final piece of the jigsaw, in case anyone has similar problems.
>
> The Arduino IDE wouldn't talk to the Arduino board because
> serial.debug_rate in ~/.arduino/preferences.txt was set to 14400, a
> value not supported by the port (something to do with the ftdi_sio
> driver?).
>
> Setting this value to 9600 cured my final problem.
>
> The relevant thread on the Arduino forum is:
> http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1222121634
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's 
> challenge
> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great 
> prizes
> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the 
> world
> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> _______________________________________________
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.2/1689 - Release Date: 9/24/2008 
6:51 PM

Alex Joni has uploaded a new version of the kernel package which
includes the ftdi_sio driver.  If you can, please try the new kernel
package by downloading
    http://www.linuxcnc.org/hardy/dists/hardy/base/binary-i386/linux-image-2.6.24-16-rtai_2.6.24-16.30.linuxcnc.4_i386.deb
and installing it with dpkg.  If this works for you (both ftdi_sio and
emc2), then we'll probably make the package available through the
regular update process.

Thanks again for reporting this problem, and I hope the new kernel
package fixes this for you without the problems you mentioned relating
to having your own self-built kernel package.  Let us know the results.

Jeff

Re Kernel update,
Downloaded this onto desktop and then all I had to do was double click
and installer ran automatically.

Now works fine with my Diecimilia board whereas before I could not
download to the chip before, so far so good. I'm not in my workshop so
unable to try emc actually running, but it loads ok.

Alan

On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 19:48 -0500, Jeff Epler wrote:
> Alex Joni has uploaded a new version of the kernel package which
> includes the ftdi_sio driver.  If you can, please try the new kernel
> package by downloading
>     http://www.linuxcnc.org/hardy/dists/hardy/base/binary-i386/linux-image-2.6.24-16-rtai_2.6.24-16.30.linuxcnc.4_i386.deb
> and installing it with dpkg.  If this works for you (both ftdi_sio and
> emc2), then we'll probably make the package available through the
> regular update process.

> Thanks again for reporting this problem, and I hope the new kernel
> package fixes this for you without the problems you mentioned relating
> to having your own self-built kernel package.  Let us know the results.
> 
> Jeff
> 

> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> _______________________________________________
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Jon Elson wrote:

>[big snip]  
>  
>
>Yeah, this has been a traditional problem with EMC.  Forever.
>In the middle of a program, you can pause and then continue.  But, there 
>really is no provision to pause, make a manual move, and then continue 
>with the program seamlessly.  I think you can't alter offsets, either, 
>while paused, but maybe you can.  After making any manual moves, you 
>have to know the G-code block to restart from, search for that line in 
>the G-code display window and click the "start from line" button in the 
>menu.
>
Note that with AXIS, you can click on a line segment in the preview 
pane, and this will select the line of G-code responsible for that 
move.  Since you can manipulate the preview any time, and you can see 
where the tool is in the preview, this is an easy way to get to the 
correct place for a restart.

>  EMC2 does scan the entire program to make sure it is in the right 
>mode for the line it will start from, except it won't start the spindle, 
>so you need a manual override.
>  
>
There's a new ini option that will leave the spindle running between 
mode changes.  This allows you to set the spindle turning manually and 
then restart the program.

- Steve

Stephen Wille Padnos wrote:
>
> Note that with AXIS, you can click on a line segment in the preview 
> pane, and this will select the line of G-code responsible for that 
> move. 
Holy COW!  I had no idea it could do that!  I will have to try it next time!
Thanks!

Jon

Works perfectly - both the Arduino comms (ftdi_sio) and EMC2.

Thank you.

Steve

On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 19:48 -0500, Jeff Epler wrote:
> Alex Joni has uploaded a new version of the kernel package which
> includes the ftdi_sio driver.  If you can, please try the new kernel
> package by downloading
>     http://www.linuxcnc.org/hardy/dists/hardy/base/binary-i386/linux-image-2.6.24-16-rtai_2.6.24-16.30.linuxcnc.4_i386.deb
> and installing it with dpkg.  If this works for you (both ftdi_sio and
> emc2), then we'll probably make the package available through the
> regular update process.
> 
> Thanks again for reporting this problem, and I hope the new kernel
> package fixes this for you without the problems you mentioned relating
> to having your own self-built kernel package.  Let us know the results.
> 
> Jeff

Would it be possible to have the coolant turn off when
I hit feed hold?(I usually hit the "p"key for feed hold) 
Most of my parts require alot of coolant so I cant
see the tool at all.Should F8 do this? 
If it is a pain in the rear to do I can put a switch to
do it manually.


Terry



---- Msg sent via CableONE.net MyMail - http://www.cableone.net

On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 19:21:01 -0700, you wrote:

>
>Would it be possible to have the coolant turn off when
>I hit feed hold?(I usually hit the "p"key for feed hold) 
>Most of my parts require alot of coolant so I cant
>see the tool at all.Should F8 do this? 
>If it is a pain in the rear to do I can put a switch to
>do it manually.

In normal CNC controls, Feed hold stops movement, nothing more, but
other controllers then allow you to do anything you like. 

From earlier explanations EMC simply pauses the code execution and won't
allow anything else. 

To do anything useful, you need to note the line, stop, do whatever,
then restart from that line :(

Steve Blackmore
--

"P" is for pause program not feed hold. F8 is flood toggle. If you use AXIS look in 
Help/AXIS Quick Reference for all the hot keys.

If you find the need to pause the program often perhaps you should look at 
changing your code to stop for you and turn off your flood.

John

On 11 Oct 2008 at 19:21, Terry wrote:

> 
> Would it be possible to have the coolant turn off when
> I hit feed hold?(I usually hit the "p"key for feed hold) 
> Most of my parts require alot of coolant so I cant
> see the tool at all.Should F8 do this? 
> If it is a pain in the rear to do I can put a switch to
> do it manually.
> 
> 
> Terry
> 
> 
> 
> ---- Msg sent via CableONE.net MyMail - http://www.cableone.net
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's
> challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK &
> win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event
> anywhere in the world
> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> _______________________________________________ Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 05:44:10 -0600, you wrote:

>"P" is for pause program not feed hold. F8 is flood toggle. If you use AXIS look in 
>Help/AXIS Quick Reference for all the hot keys.
>
>If you find the need to pause the program often perhaps you should look at 
>changing your code to stop for you and turn off your flood.

Agreed, - but Feed Hold is there for unforeseen circumstances like a
broken insert, or swarf wrap up. EMC doesn't have a working feed hold :(
 

Steve Blackmore
--

Hello guys,

I have small computer which based on VIA C7 1Gg, motherboard is CN700.
Looks like I have SMI problem with this computer.
When I start latency test, it works well (15000-36000 nS)
But each 10-15 minutes system has 200000-360000 nS ...
As I can read from this document http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?FixingSMIIssues
I have to add rtapi_smi.ko in rtapi.conf.
Nice. But how can i be sure that the problem is solved?
By that document I can see SMI module in memory when I start EMC.
When I start latency test I do not see SMI module in memory.
How can I start latency test SMI module, to be sure that my RT machine is real RT machine?

Thank you 
Evgeny

Steve, but EMC does have a working Feed Hold... M53 enables it.

http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_main.html#sec:M50:-Feed-Override

John

On 12 Oct 2008 at 14:58, Steve Blackmore wrote:

> Agreed, - but Feed Hold is there for unforeseen circumstances like a
> broken insert, or swarf wrap up. EMC doesn't have a working feed hold
> :(
> 
> 
> Steve Blackmore

I think if you look through the archives, you'll see that Steve (the 
other Steve) is looking for the ability to pause a running program, then 
do some things manually, then resume the running program.  At the 
moment, this is not as easy to do with EMC2 as it is with some other 
controls.  There are changes in CVS TRUNK that may make it work a bit 
closer to what he wants.  Steve - how about trying those changes out and 
letting us know if they work for you?

The feedhold HAL input merely causes the motion controller to stop the 
motors in a controlled way, it doesn't change modes to allow manual/MDI 
movement.

- Steve

John Thornton wrote:

>Steve, but EMC does have a working Feed Hold... M53 enables it.
>
>http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_main.html#sec:M50:-Feed-Override
>
>John
>
>On 12 Oct 2008 at 14:58, Steve Blackmore wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Agreed, - but Feed Hold is there for unforeseen circumstances like a
>>broken insert, or swarf wrap up. EMC doesn't have a working feed hold
>>:(
>>
>>
>>Steve Blackmore
>>    
>>

Also, I want to ask about VIA С7 CN700.
At page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Hardware_Requirements I see that VIA C7 CN700 is good choise.
But, at page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TestedHardware I see that VIA C7 has problems like I.
So, does anybody use VIA C7 CN700 based computer for EMC?

Thanks
Evgeny

P.S.
My PC has DOM Flash, could be this a reason for RT problem?
 




-----Original Message-----
From: Евгений Александрович<evgeni_atel@...>
To: emc-users@...
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:37:05 +0400
Subject: [Emc-users] SMI problem

> 
> Hello guys,
> 
> I have small computer which based on VIA C7 1Gg, motherboard is CN700.
> Looks like I have SMI problem with this computer.
> When I start latency test, it works well (15000-36000 nS)
> But each 10-15 minutes system has 200000-360000 nS ...
> As I can read from this document http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?FixingSMIIssues
> I have to add rtapi_smi.ko in rtapi.conf.
> Nice. But how can i be sure that the problem is solved?
> By that document I can see SMI module in memory when I start EMC.
> When I start latency test I do not see SMI module in memory.
> How can I start latency test SMI module, to be sure that my RT machine is real RT machine?
> 
> Thank you 
> Evgeny

The second link is really a dead one.  You should use 

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test

I've got several C7-D 1.5 MHz boxes running here.  They are the ones I
used for the EMC2 lab at fest.  Their stats are listed on the page above
as well as a Jetway that I tested for another company.

Both of these use their on-board video drivers.

I tried a flash adapter for memory but didn't like it a bit so went back
to small hard drives.

HTH

Rayh




On Sun, 2008-10-12 at 20:12 +0400, Евгений Александрович wrote:
> Also, I want to ask about VIA С7 CN700.
> At page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Hardware_Requirements I see that VIA C7 CN700 is good choise.
> But, at page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TestedHardware I see that VIA C7 has problems like I.
> So, does anybody use VIA C7 CN700 based computer for EMC?
> 
> Thanks
> Evgeny
> 
> P.S.
> My PC has DOM Flash, could be this a reason for RT problem?
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Евгений Александрович<evgeni_atel@...>
> To: emc-users@...
> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:37:05 +0400
> Subject: [Emc-users] SMI problem
> 
> > 
> > Hello guys,
> > 
> > I have small computer which based on VIA C7 1Gg, motherboard is CN700.
> > Looks like I have SMI problem with this computer.
> > When I start latency test, it works well (15000-36000 nS)
> > But each 10-15 minutes system has 200000-360000 nS ...
> > As I can read from this document http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?FixingSMIIssues
> > I have to add rtapi_smi.ko in rtapi.conf.
> > Nice. But how can i be sure that the problem is solved?
> > By that document I can see SMI module in memory when I start EMC.
> > When I start latency test I do not see SMI module in memory.
> > How can I start latency test SMI module, to be sure that my RT machine is real RT machine?
> > 
> > Thank you 
> > Evgeny
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
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On Sat, Oct 11, 2008 at 07:21:01PM -0700, Terry wrote:
> 
> Would it be possible to have the coolant turn off when
> I hit feed hold?(I usually hit the "p"key for feed hold) 

halui has an output "halui.program.is-paused" and you could invert
(hal "not" block) this and then and it (hal "and2" block) with your
coolant output in HAL.

I wish I had a memory like yours :) 

All this time I thought Steve was asking about Feed Hold...

John

On 12 Oct 2008 at 11:34, Stephen Wille Padnos wrote:

> I think if you look through the archives, you'll see that Steve (the
> other Steve) is looking for the ability to pause a running program,
> then do some things manually, then resume the running program.  At the
> moment, this is not as easy to do with EMC2 as it is with some other
> controls.  There are changes in CVS TRUNK that may make it work a bit
> closer to what he wants.  Steve - how about trying those changes out
> and letting us know if they work for you?
> 
> The feedhold HAL input merely causes the motion controller to stop the
> motors in a controlled way, it doesn't change modes to allow
> manual/MDI movement.
> 
> - Steve
> 
> John Thornton wrote:
> 
> >Steve, but EMC does have a working Feed Hold... M53 enables it.
> >
> >http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gcode_main.html#sec:M50:-Feed-O
> >verride
> >
> >John
> >
> >On 12 Oct 2008 at 14:58, Steve Blackmore wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Agreed, - but Feed Hold is there for unforeseen circumstances like a
> >>broken insert, or swarf wrap up. EMC doesn't have a working feed
> >>hold :(
> >>
> >>
> >>Steve Blackmore
> >>    
> >>
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's
> challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK &
> win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event
> anywhere in the world
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> _______________________________________________ Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 12:09:41 -0600, you wrote:

>I wish I had a memory like yours :) 
>
>All this time I thought Steve was asking about Feed Hold...

I was, but a feed hold that allows nothing else is pretty worthless ;)

Steve Blackmore
--

On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 11:34:49 -0400, you wrote:

>I think if you look through the archives, you'll see that Steve (the 
>other Steve) is looking for the ability to pause a running program, then 
>do some things manually, then resume the running program.  At the 
>moment, this is not as easy to do with EMC2 as it is with some other 
>controls.  There are changes in CVS TRUNK that may make it work a bit 
>closer to what he wants.  Steve - how about trying those changes out and 
>letting us know if they work for you?

CVS trunk? If I knew where it was, or how to do it, I'd try it. 

>The feedhold HAL input merely causes the motion controller to stop the 
>motors in a controlled way, it doesn't change modes to allow manual/MDI 
>movement.

Which you must admit is pretty pointless. Why would you want to pause
motion on a CNC machine, unless you wanted, or needed, to perform some
other action.
 

Steve Blackmore
--

That depends on the type of machine you have.

On my Bridgeport clone:

1 -- Hit feed hold
2 -- Lower the knee
3 -- Replace the tool
4 -- Raise the knee
5 -- Continue


Not worthless to me.

Ken

Steve Blackmore wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 12:09:41 -0600, you wrote:
> 
>> I wish I had a memory like yours :) 
>>
>> All this time I thought Steve was asking about Feed Hold...
> 
> I was, but a feed hold that allows nothing else is pretty worthless ;)
> 
> Steve Blackmore
> --
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> _______________________________________________
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

-- 
Kenneth Lerman
Mark Kenny Products Company, LLC
55 Main Street
Newtown, CT 06470
888-ISO-SEVO
203-426-7166

Here it is...

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-
bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Getting_the_source_with_CVS

John

On 12 Oct 2008 at 20:29, Steve Blackmore wrote:

> 
> CVS trunk? If I knew where it was, or how to do it, I'd try it. 
> 
> 
> Steve Blackmore
> --
>

On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 15:07:03 -0600, you wrote:

>Here it is...
>
>http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-
>bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Getting_the_source_with_CVS
>
>John
>
>On 12 Oct 2008 at 20:29, Steve Blackmore wrote:
>
>> 

Still same question, that wrapped link tells me little. It doesn't tell
me how to get Steve's "fix" ??

I'm not a linux guru, I'm a CNC user. EMC has some great possibilities,
but the advantages are far outweighed by the practical difficulties of
understanding what you guys are talking about :(


Steve Blackmore
--

Steve:

Try reading this
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CVS
and this:(section 2.1 and 2.2)
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2

Then if not clear ask a specific question


----------------------------------------
> From: steve@...
> To: emc-users@...
> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2008 02:13:32 +0100
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Axis question
> 
> On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 15:07:03 -0600, you wrote:
> 
>>Here it is...
>>
>>http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-
>>bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Getting_the_source_with_CVS
>>
>>John
>>
>>On 12 Oct 2008 at 20:29, Steve Blackmore wrote:
>>
>>> 
> 
> Still same question, that wrapped link tells me little. It doesn't tell
> me how to get Steve's "fix" ??
> 
> I'm not a linux guru, I'm a CNC user. EMC has some great possibilities,
> but the advantages are far outweighed by the practical difficulties of
> understanding what you guys are talking about :(
> 
> 
> Steve Blackmore
> --
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> _______________________________________________
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

_________________________________________________________________

Sorry about the wrapped link but I'm on a windoz machine and my mail reader does 
it automagicly. I'm not a linux guru either and found no problem following the 
instructions in that link to install the CVS TRUNK version of EMC2. 

I thought you asked how to get the CVS Trunk vesion and that link was how to 
download and install it...

John

> 
> CVS trunk? If I knew where it was, or how to do it, I'd try it. 
> 
> 
> Steve Blackmore
> --
> 



On 13 Oct 2008 at 2:13, Steve Blackmore wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 15:07:03 -0600, you wrote:
> 
> >Here it is...
> >
> >http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-
> >bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Getting_the_source_with_CVS
> >
> >John
> >
> >On 12 Oct 2008 at 20:29, Steve Blackmore wrote:
> >
> >> 
> 
> Still same question, that wrapped link tells me little. It doesn't
> tell me how to get Steve's "fix" ??
> 
> I'm not a linux guru, I'm a CNC user. EMC has some great
> possibilities, but the advantages are far outweighed by the practical
> difficulties of understanding what you guys are talking about :(
> 
> 
> Steve Blackmore
> --
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's
> challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK &
> win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event
> anywhere in the world
> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> _______________________________________________ Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

Looks like we has the same motherbords.
I guess your configuration I can see at page http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153092
Both PCs are based on VIA C7 CN700 platform. http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Barebone/Products_Spec.aspx?ProductID=2369&ProductName=U1R
Differents are CPU, your is 1,5 Gg, my 1 Gg funless. I do not thnik it could be a reason of my problems.
Also I have DOM Flash instead HDD.
Why you did not like DOM Flash? Why real HDD?
I use Puppy linux, and system works complitly in RAM. It has a little bit slow start and shutdown, but no more problems with performance.

At the moment I think I found what is reason of problem.
In BIOS I have parameter for CPU "Delay Prior of Thermal"
I am able to set it to 4-32 minutes. (But I am not able to disable it)
It is 16 minutes by default. And I have latency problem each 16 minutes.
If I set it to 4 minutes, I have problem each 4 minutes.

You wrote about some BIOS changes. What kind of your changes?
Also if it is possible I would ask about version of BIOS on your computers.

Evgeny

P.S.
Thank you for you answer.


-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Henry <rehenry@...>
To: Евгений Александрович <evgeni_atel@...>, "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@...>
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 11:40:35 -0500
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] SMI problem

> 
> 
> The second link is really a dead one.  You should use 
> 
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test
> 
> I've got several C7-D 1.5 MHz boxes running here.  They are the ones I
> used for the EMC2 lab at fest.  Their stats are listed on the page above
> as well as a Jetway that I tested for another company.
> 
> Both of these use their on-board video drivers.
> 
> I tried a flash adapter for memory but didn't like it a bit so went back
> to small hard drives.
> 
> HTH
> 
> Rayh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 2008-10-12 at 20:12 +0400, Евгений Александрович wrote:
> > Also, I want to ask about VIA С7 CN700.
> > At page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Hardware_Requirements I see that VIA C7 CN700 is good choise.
> > But, at page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TestedHardware I see that VIA C7 has problems like I.
> > So, does anybody use VIA C7 CN700 based computer for EMC?
> > 
> > Thanks
> > Evgeny
> > 
> > P.S.
> > My PC has DOM Flash, could be this a reason for RT problem?
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Евгений Александрович<evgeni_atel@...>
> > To: emc-users@...
> > Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:37:05 +0400
> > Subject: [Emc-users] SMI problem
> > 
> > > 
> > > Hello guys,
> > > 
> > > I have small computer which based on VIA C7 1Gg, motherboard is CN700.
> > > Looks like I have SMI problem with this computer.
> > > When I start latency test, it works well (15000-36000 nS)
> > > But each 10-15 minutes system has 200000-360000 nS ...
> > > As I can read from this document http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?FixingSMIIssues
> > > I have to add rtapi_smi.ko in rtapi.conf.
> > > Nice. But how can i be sure that the problem is solved?
> > > By that document I can see SMI module in memory when I start EMC.
> > > When I start latency test I do not see SMI module in memory.
> > > How can I start latency test SMI module, to be sure that my RT machine is real RT machine?
> > > 
> > > Thank you 
> > > Evgeny
> > 
> > 
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
> > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
> > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
> > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

The Flash was darn slow both booting and starting up the EMC.  Unlike
you though I used a default install of Ubuntu to it.  That is the only
reason.  I'm reasonably certain that it can be made to work with some
pruning and simplified boot routines.

I don't see that thermal BIOS parameter at all here.  Sounds like you
found the issue though.  It must have to do with the fanless version.  I
turn off things like audio and legacy stuff because that gets in the way
of rtai.  I don't have the board hooked up just now so can't see the
version.

Hope this helps

Ray


On Mon, 2008-10-13 at 19:18 +0400, Евгений Александрович wrote:
> Looks like we has the same motherbords.
> I guess your configuration I can see at page http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153092
> Both PCs are based on VIA C7 CN700 platform. http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Barebone/Products_Spec.aspx?ProductID=2369&ProductName=U1R
> Differents are CPU, your is 1,5 Gg, my 1 Gg funless. I do not thnik it could be a reason of my problems.
> Also I have DOM Flash instead HDD.
> Why you did not like DOM Flash? Why real HDD?
> I use Puppy linux, and system works complitly in RAM. It has a little bit slow start and shutdown, but no more problems with performance.
> 
> At the moment I think I found what is reason of problem.
> In BIOS I have parameter for CPU "Delay Prior of Thermal"
> I am able to set it to 4-32 minutes. (But I am not able to disable it)
> It is 16 minutes by default. And I have latency problem each 16 minutes.
> If I set it to 4 minutes, I have problem each 4 minutes.
> 
> You wrote about some BIOS changes. What kind of your changes?
> Also if it is possible I would ask about version of BIOS on your computers.
> 
> Evgeny
> 
> P.S.
> Thank you for you answer.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray Henry <rehenry@...>
> To: Евгений Александрович <evgeni_atel@...>, "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@...>
> Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 11:40:35 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] SMI problem
> 
> > 
> > 
> > The second link is really a dead one.  You should use 
> > 
> > http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test
> > 
> > I've got several C7-D 1.5 MHz boxes running here.  They are the ones I
> > used for the EMC2 lab at fest.  Their stats are listed on the page above
> > as well as a Jetway that I tested for another company.
> > 
> > Both of these use their on-board video drivers.
> > 
> > I tried a flash adapter for memory but didn't like it a bit so went back
> > to small hard drives.
> > 
> > HTH
> > 
> > Rayh
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Sun, 2008-10-12 at 20:12 +0400, Евгений Александрович wrote:
> > > Also, I want to ask about VIA С7 CN700.
> > > At page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Hardware_Requirements I see that VIA C7 CN700 is good choise.
> > > But, at page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TestedHardware I see that VIA C7 has problems like I.
> > > So, does anybody use VIA C7 CN700 based computer for EMC?
> > > 
> > > Thanks
> > > Evgeny
> > > 
> > > P.S.
> > > My PC has DOM Flash, could be this a reason for RT problem?
> > >  
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Евгений Александрович<evgeni_atel@...>
> > > To: emc-users@...
> > > Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 18:37:05 +0400
> > > Subject: [Emc-users] SMI problem
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Hello guys,
> > > > 
> > > > I have small computer which based on VIA C7 1Gg, motherboard is CN700.
> > > > Looks like I have SMI problem with this computer.
> > > > When I start latency test, it works well (15000-36000 nS)
> > > > But each 10-15 minutes system has 200000-360000 nS ...
> > > > As I can read from this document http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?FixingSMIIssues
> > > > I have to add rtapi_smi.ko in rtapi.conf.
> > > > Nice. But how can i be sure that the problem is solved?
> > > > By that document I can see SMI module in memory when I start EMC.
> > > > When I start latency test I do not see SMI module in memory.
> > > > How can I start latency test SMI module, to be sure that my RT machine is real RT machine?
> > > > 
> > > > Thank you 
> > > > Evgeny
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
> > > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
> > > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
> > > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@...
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> _______________________________________________
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Hi,

Has anyone yet done a modification to AXIS which will 
properly display the effects of using a rotary axis? For 
example, if I have a rotary axis parallel to the X-axis say 
and want to cut a simple circle say 50mm dia by rotating the 
rotary axis against a stationary cutter, I can, in MDI, tell 
the Y axis to move 25mm to offset the spindle to the 
diameter I want and then rotate the A-axis (rotary) 360 
degrees to make the cut. However, AXIS only displays a 
straight line on the Y-axis for the offset move and then 
just twiddles the cutter cone around the new Y-axis 
position. i'e' the display doesn't show the circle which has 
been cut. This is a simple example but, as I am interested 
in producing some engine turning on precious metal by this 
method, it would be confidence building if I could run my 
scripts in simulation mode to confirm that they do which I 
hope they will before I hack into lumps of gold and silver!!

Thanks,
Ian
___________________
Ian W. Wright
Sheffield  UK

Yes, this is one of the new features in emc 2.3.0.

I modified the sample axis_9axis config file to specify
    [DISPLAY]
    GEOMETRY=XAYZ

The meaning of [DISPLAY]GEOMETRY is described in the documentation:
    http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.3/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:AXIS-Interface
besides A rotating around X, the other assumption it makes when plotting
is that the center of "A" rotation is machine Y0Z0.

Here is an example of the preview plot and backplot it produces:
    http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/axis2.3-rotary-moves.png

Jeff