Courier Mail Server

This is pretty much a MUA issue, not a MTA issue.  If you use a MUA such as
mutt (for Linux) that's capable of such things, you can set the From line to
anything you like.  I use mutt or evolution for most of my email, and ssmtp
on my local desktop system which can be told to set the envelope mail-from
address to whatever the body from header address is (which is why this post
appears to come from "fmouse-courier" instead of just "fmouse".

Thus spake Vincent on Fri, Feb 24, 2006 at 12:47:31PM CST
> Is there a way to get courier to do destination based masquerading?  In
> other words, to append one domain to the from addresses if I send mail
> to a host in the local network, but another if the destination is
> outside the LAN. 
> 
> So far as I can tell, it always appends the contents of the _me_ file to
> my from address.  
> 
> For example: if I send mail to the outside world, I would like the from
> line to show user@....  However, it I send mail from hosta to
> hostb on domain.com, I would like the from line to show
> user@....  That way, if a user on hostb replies, it will be
> sent directly to hosta not to domain.com.  If I send mail to the outside
> world, hosta.domain.com is usually not visible and replies must go to
> domain.com.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Fighting against human |     PGP public key
FMP Computer Services |    creativity is like   |      available at
512-259-1190          |    trying to eradicate  | <http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com    |        dandelions"      |
                      |      (Pamela Jones)     |

On Fri, Feb 24, 2006 at 12:55:06PM -0600, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> This is pretty much a MUA issue, not a MTA issue.  If you use a MUA such as
> mutt (for Linux) that's capable of such things, you can set the From line to
> anything you like.  I use mutt or evolution for most of my email, and ssmtp
> on my local desktop system which can be told to set the envelope mail-from
> address to whatever the body from header address is (which is why this post
> appears to come from "fmouse-courier" instead of just "fmouse".

Ok.  Thanks for the reply.  I use mutt for my primary mailer also.
I have also found no way to make the MTA rewrite the _From_ line based
on destination on machines we have running postfix.   It would be
convenient to not have to customize every client on every machine for it.
Also, we sometimes send mail from the command line or from a script
using the standard _mail_ utility.  I have not found any command line
options to set the From line with mail.

I have also started researching exim.  It appears that it has this
ability, so I am going to evaluate it further as a possible choice of
MTA also.


> Thus spake Vincent on Fri, Feb 24, 2006 at 12:47:31PM CST
> > Is there a way to get courier to do destination based masquerading?  In
> > other words, to append one domain to the from addresses if I send mail
> > to a host in the local network, but another if the destination is
> > outside the LAN. 
> > 
> > So far as I can tell, it always appends the contents of the _me_ file to
> > my from address.  
> > 
> > For example: if I send mail to the outside world, I would like the from
> > line to show user@....  However, it I send mail from hosta to
> > hostb on domain.com, I would like the from line to show
> > user@....  That way, if a user on hostb replies, it will be
> > sent directly to hosta not to domain.com.  If I send mail to the outside
> > world, hosta.domain.com is usually not visible and replies must go to
> > domain.com.

Thus spake Vincent on Mon, Feb 27, 2006 at 07:05:40AM CST
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2006 at 12:55:06PM -0600, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> > This is pretty much a MUA issue, not a MTA issue.  If you use a MUA suc=
h as
> > mutt (for Linux) that's capable of such things, you can set the From li=
ne to
> > anything you like.  I use mutt or evolution for most of my email, and s=
smtp
> > on my local desktop system which can be told to set the envelope mail-f=
rom
> > address to whatever the body from header address is (which is why this =
post
> > appears to come from "fmouse-courier" instead of just "fmouse".
>=20
> Ok.  Thanks for the reply.  I use mutt for my primary mailer also.
> I have also found no way to make the MTA rewrite the _From_ line based
> on destination on machines we have running postfix.   It would be
> convenient to not have to customize every client on every machine for it.
> Also, we sometimes send mail from the command line or from a script
> using the standard _mail_ utility.  I have not found any command line
> options to set the From line with mail.
>=20
> I have also started researching exim.  It appears that it has this
> ability, so I am going to evaluate it further as a possible choice of
> MTA also.

You might also look into using ssmtp an intermediary in the smtp process,
although this would be a per-client solution and would only work on Linux
clients, so it may not be ideal for you.  Local MUAs would then need to
contain appropriate configs to rewrite the body From header based on the
destination address.

On the other hand, ssmtp is a very simple smtp tool which works as a
sendmail interface, so it's an outbound-only smtp client, and would work
with any CLI tools which effectively invoke /usr/sbin/sendmail or equiv.  It
contains the following config option:

# Set this to never rewrite the "From:" line (unless not given) and to
# use that address in the "from line" of the envelope.
=46romLineOverride=3DYES

ssmtp will then talk to whatever your outbound smpt server is, which should
preserve the envelope from address.

I've not come across any facility in courier which can do this, but courier
contains many corners which I haven't visited.

Of course, there's always something along the lines of a classic Unix hack
which involves renaming /usr/sbin/sendmail to sendmail.real or something
similar, and replacing /usr/sbin/sendmail with a perl or python (or awk/sed)
script which will do the appropriate header rewriting and pass the mail on
to ssmtp in some fashion.  You wouldn't need to configure your individual
MUAs in this case.  My guess is that you don't want to go there ;-)

--=20
Lindsay Haisley       | "Fighting against human |     PGP public key
FMP Computer Services |    creativity is like   |      available at
512-259-1190          |    trying to eradicate  | <http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com    |        dandelions"      |
                      |      (Pamela Jones)     |

Thus spake Lindsay Haisley on Mon, Feb 27, 2006 at 12:06:39PM CST
> > It would be convenient to not have to customize every client on every
> > machine for it.

Another issue you have to deal with here is that in the SMTP dialog between
client and server, the MAIL FROM envelope address is sent before the RCPT TO
envelope address, so any dependency must necessarily involve buffering the
message and determining the proper envelope addresses based on the body
contents.  Thus, the use of a simple script and a sendmail workalike
replacement makes sense.  My guess would be that there's probably no way
around using some sort of intermediate process to do the rewriting and
the proper management of the envelope addresses.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Fighting against human |     PGP public key
FMP Computer Services |    creativity is like   |      available at
512-259-1190          |    trying to eradicate  | <http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com    |        dandelions"      |
                      |      (Pamela Jones)     |

On Mon, Feb 27, 2006 at 12:06:39PM -0600, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> Thus spake Vincent on Mon, Feb 27, 2006 at 07:05:40AM CST
> > On Fri, Feb 24, 2006 at 12:55:06PM -0600, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
 
> You might also look into using ssmtp an intermediary in the smtp process,
> although this would be a per-client solution and would only work on Linux
> clients, so it may not be ideal for you.  Local MUAs would then need to
> contain appropriate configs to rewrite the body From header based on the
> destination address.
> 
> On the other hand, ssmtp is a very simple smtp tool which works as a
> sendmail interface, so it's an outbound-only smtp client, and would work
> with any CLI tools which effectively invoke /usr/sbin/sendmail or equiv.  It
> contains the following config option:
> 
> # Set this to never rewrite the "From:" line (unless not given) and to
> # use that address in the "from line" of the envelope.
> FromLineOverride=YES
> 
> ssmtp will then talk to whatever your outbound smpt server is, which should
> preserve the envelope from address.
> 
> I've not come across any facility in courier which can do this, but courier
> contains many corners which I haven't visited.
> 
> Of course, there's always something along the lines of a classic Unix hack
> which involves renaming /usr/sbin/sendmail to sendmail.real or something
> similar, and replacing /usr/sbin/sendmail with a perl or python (or awk/sed)
> script which will do the appropriate header rewriting and pass the mail on
> to ssmtp in some fashion.  You wouldn't need to configure your individual
> MUAs in this case.  My guess is that you don't want to go there ;-)

I would prefer not to :-).  I appreciate the suggestions and
information.

I have actually dealt with this very issue for years with various MTA's
including sendmail (which was always a nightmare to work with).  I am
always in a situation, either in the work place or at home, where I need
send email between individual hosts on a LAN with the hostname after the
'@' in the from line and, at the same time, be able to send mail to the
outside with only the domain after the '@' in the from line.  It has
always been a problem.  I find it impossible to believe that it has not
been an ongoing problem for others as well, causing a lot more custom
administration, setting up separate internal mail servers, etc to
accomplish it.  This is something that should be as simple as giving the
MTA a simple rule to rewrite the from line with your domain _only_ when
it is not addressed to a machine on the LAN.  It is an over site in the
MTA's that I have never understood.

At the moment I am still evaluating exim, so I have uninstalled courier,
but I ran another test with postfix on my workstation just to verify.
Sure enough, since I have masquerading turned on, even when I change the
"From" line in mutt before sending to another host on the LAN, postfix
rewrites the header anyway if the from line contains a host on the same
domain.  I have posted to the postfix list before about it and got the
same basic answer, "Postfix does not do destination based masquerading".

Scanning over the exim docs again, it looks like it has very flexible
header rewriting controls.  So, for now, I am going to continue
evaluating it.

Vincent wrote:
> 
> I have actually dealt with this very issue for years with various MTA's
> including sendmail (which was always a nightmare to work with).  I am
> always in a situation, either in the work place or at home, where I need
> send email between individual hosts on a LAN with the hostname after the
> '@' in the from line and, at the same time, be able to send mail to the
> outside with only the domain after the '@' in the from line.  It has
> always been a problem.  I find it impossible to believe that it has not
> been an ongoing problem for others as well, causing a lot more custom
> administration, setting up separate internal mail servers, etc to
> accomplish it.

Really?  You find that impossible to believe?  In ten years, I've never 
cared to be able to send mail between individual systems in a private 
network, either at work or home.  I always prefer to have one mail 
server, so that everyone can look in just one spot for their mail.

If you need flexible masquerading, by all means use a product that 
supports it, but allow your disbelief, that most of us prefer not to 
deal with that complexity for no particular reason, to ease.

On Thu March 2 2006 13:52, Gordon Messmer wrote:
> Vincent wrote:
> > I have actually dealt with this very issue for years with various
> > MTA's including sendmail (which was always a nightmare to work
> > with).  I am always in a situation, either in the work place or at
> > home, where I need send email between individual hosts on a LAN
> > with the hostname after the '@' in the from line and, at the same
> > time, be able to send mail to the outside with only the domain
> > after the '@' in the from line.  It has always been a problem.  I
> > find it impossible to believe that it has not been an ongoing
> > problem for others as well, causing a lot more custom
> > administration, setting up separate internal mail servers, etc to
> > accomplish it.
>
> Really?  You find that impossible to believe?  In ten years, I've
> never cared to be able to send mail between individual systems in a
> private network, either at work or home.  I always prefer to have one
> mail server, so that everyone can look in just one spot for their
> mail.

I agree.

> If you need flexible masquerading, by all means use a product that
> supports it, but allow your disbelief, that most of us prefer not to
> deal with that complexity for no particular reason, to ease.

Well said.

jerry

hi

On Thu, 2 Mar 2006, Gordon Messmer wrote:

> If you need flexible masquerading, by all means use a product that
> supports it

sendmail being one of them ;)))


-- 
rgds,
serge

On Thu, Mar 02, 2006 at 11:52:58AM -0800, Gordon Messmer wrote:
> Vincent wrote:
> >
> >I have actually dealt with this very issue for years with various MTA's
> >including sendmail (which was always a nightmare to work with).  I am
> >always in a situation, either in the work place or at home, where I need
> >send email between individual hosts on a LAN with the hostname after the
> >'@' in the from line and, at the same time, be able to send mail to the
> >outside with only the domain after the '@' in the from line.  It has
> >always been a problem.  I find it impossible to believe that it has not
> >been an ongoing problem for others as well, causing a lot more custom
> >administration, setting up separate internal mail servers, etc to
> >accomplish it.
> 
> Really?  You find that impossible to believe?  In ten years, I've never 
> cared to be able to send mail between individual systems in a private 
> network, either at work or home.  I always prefer to have one mail 
> server, so that everyone can look in just one spot for their mail.
> 
> If you need flexible masquerading, by all means use a product that 
> supports it, but allow your disbelief, that most of us prefer not to 
> deal with that complexity for no particular reason, to ease.

I never said "most of you".   I'm not sure what your point is, unless
you are saying that since _you_ have not had a need for that feature
that you believe nobody else does.

On Thu, 2 Mar 2006, Vincent wrote:

>>> ...  I am
>>> always in a situation, either in the work place or at home, where I need
>>> send email between individual hosts on a LAN with the hostname after the
>>> '@' in the from line and, at the same time, be able to send mail to the
>>> outside with only the domain after the '@' in the from line.

Can you give examples? I have read that line above and don't quite follow 
it.

Not sure what you are trying to do, but Postfix (and possibly others) have 
a transport table that may be along the lines of what you are looking.

Vincent wrote:
> 
> I never said "most of you".   I'm not sure what your point is, unless
> you are saying that since _you_ have not had a need for that feature
> that you believe nobody else does.

No, just that "impossible to believe" is, perhaps, unnecessary rhetoric. 
  Courier doesn't support a feature that you want, and venting probably 
isn't going to change that.  In addition to using another product, that 
does what you want, you have the option of submitting patches to add 
that feature.

Aside from that, I'm not sure what other response you expected to evoke.