On Sun, 2006-01-22 at 15:17 -0800, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> # from David Christian Berg
> # on Sunday 22 January 2006 09:32 am:
> >On Sun, 2006-01-22 at 09:21 -0800, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> >> # from David Christian Berg
> >> # on Sunday 22 January 2006 09:06 am:
> >> >I don't agree with who ever said, we should change import to place
> >> > in the menu. Actually I think we should have import be the default
> >> > and it should embed images. A setting should change this to place
> >> > and then you link images.
> >> Except that "import" in all other cases results in embedded data
> >> because all other cases result in inserting svg (whether from a .svg
> >> file or from a plugin.) Given this precedent and the definition of
> >> "import", I think there is a really good case for a "place" or
> >> "insert link to" command.
> >Hey Eric, you leave me wondering what you are trying to say...
> >I think that import should embed and place should link but that you
> >should only have either in the file menu and not both. Which one is
> >displayed is an inkscape preference.
> >I don't quite understand, where your comment contradicts with what I
> > was trying to say.
> OK, I didn't realize that you were proposing that the import command
> dissappears and gets replaced by "place." I don't agree that one
> should be removed from the menu based on some setting -- the menu
> should always contain both choices.
The idea behind only showing one of the options is pretty simple:
First of all we are talking about two different user groups. The
professionals will only want to embed, the home users will only want to
import. If a pro wants to import, he'll know, what to do, so no
But the menu is a good indicator for what is going on if you do drag and
drop. If you are unsure, what you just did, you can just have a look at
the file menu and it's right infront of you.
It's not discoverable, I agree, but as I said, I completely expect home
users not to need the "place" feature.
Maybe you could just have the place menu turned of by default and turn
it on without hiding the import menu item. Turning it on will then
automatically also change the drag and drop behaviour to place...
> My points restated:
> 1. "import" for an image currently has a different behavior than
> "import" for an svg. The behavior is more correctly called "place" or
> "insert linked image" and I believe that this is the source of most
> user's confusion -- the term "import" implies that the content is
> embedded in the current document.
> 2. The "insert linked image" behavior that we currently have is
> definitely desirable. It just needs to be renamed for what it is.
> There is no reason to mix the two in the user's model of how inkscape
> works -- no need for a checkbox on the "import" or any other dialog.
> 3. The embedding of images is what I would expect "import" to do.
> Inkscape definitely needs this functionality and it should be accessed
> via the File->Import menu.
> Several other conceptual holes exist in the user's model and should
> probably be addressed. Images should be able to be switched from
> embedded to linked, editing either needs to be transparent to the user
> (unless they have already edited the linked image externally) and some
> way of refreshing the display based on a change to the file on disk is
> also needed.
This is a typical thing for the right click menu :)
Have an option:
Embed/Make Placed Image
Edit original with.../Edit embedded image with...
> Additionally, it should also be clear to the user exactly what is
> happening. If they don't understand the linked paradigm, they probably
> won't be using it, but if they do, they will want an easy way to see
> whether an image is a link or inlined. IMO, most of the negative
> feedback from users comes from their preconceived (and rightly so)
> notion of how the import paradigm works (e.g. "if I import something,
> it is _in_ this document and if I want to change it I have to delete
> the object and import a changed version") and the fact that inkscape
> does not behave in that way (thus, "import" is the wrong label for the
> linking action that inkscape currently supports.)
Well, as said before, people expect embedding for import and that is
what they should! Pros will be able to know, what they are dealing with
and will be able to find out via the right click menu etc.
For discoverability we could add a "Links" dialogue as InDesign hast