Audacity

On Apr 16, 2004, at 11:24 PM, Matt Brubeck wrote:
> By default, wxSingleInstanceChecker creates a lockfile in the user's
> home directory on OS X and Unix.  This causes problems for users with
> non-writable or network-mounted home directories (usually in school
> computer labs).

Why would someone ever have a non-writable home directory?

I'm happy to support these people, but I don't understand why even an
NFS-mounted Home wouldn't be writable.

> I want to change this to create lockfiles in the temp directory, since
> this directory should be local and writable even when $HOME isn't.

That sounds okay, but I'm slightly worried that this won't actually
fix the problem, it will just cause a different set of users to
have problems.  For example, on some shared systems I'm on, /tmp
is very small, and sometimes another user on the system fills up
/tmp completely by accident, making it impossible for me to create a
file there.

So I think that the real solution should involve a smarter way of
detecting when the default location is not writable and giving the
user the option of picking something new.

In fact, since we already have this code for choosing Audacity's temp
directory, why don't we just use that directory?  Just put a file
called "lock" in that directory.

> I would also like to change the default temp directories on Windows and
> Mac OS X:
>
>  * Windows:  Currently we use the Audacity program directory.
>    Should be in the temp directory returned by Windows' GetTempPath().

Sounds good; what version of Windows does this function require?
(That's something important to check...it could be an NT function
that doesn't work on Windows 98.)

>  * Mac OS X:  Currently we use the Audacity program folder.
>    Should be in /tmp or /var/tmp.

No, that's the Mac OS 9 code you're looking at.  It uses /tmp on
Mac OS X.

> If I have time, I will also submit a patch to wxWidgets to implement a
> cross-platform wxGetTempDir() function, similar to wxGetHomeDir().
>
> Any comments?  I'll need help testing the Mac and Windows changes.

I'll definitely test the Mac changes.

- Dominic


>
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> Why would someone ever have a non-writable home directory?

As a person who does just such a thing....

Students have NetWare logins which authenticate and give them a "home 
directory" where they store their files.  They log on to the NT domain as 
merely "student" however, which is a dummy account with very few 
permissions.  This prevents them from mucking about with the config. of the 
machines and helps our two techs to keep 400 hetergeneous machines up and 
running.

The "Student" account technically has a home directory of some kind, but 
students logged in can't write to it, and that's by design.

So it all depends on what Windows considers to be the home directory vs. what 
admins consider it to be.

I can also imagine a situation (perhaps in a library) where computers are 
more like kiosks and patrons can't write to the HD at all (well, generally 
at least), and must save everything to a USB keychain drive or floppy or 
what-have-you.

Anyway, just FYI.

-- 
Graham Mitchell - computer science teacher, Leander High School
"Reading is to the mind what exercise is to the body."
	- Sir Richard Steele

Thanks, that helps a lot.

Currently Audacity is not designed to run in a system without any
temporary storage space at all.  On a system with a lot of RAM but
no disk space available for writing, one could imagine an option that
lets you do everything in RAM.  This will be a lot easier with Mezzo.

- Dominic


On Apr 17, 2004, at 12:30 AM, Graham Mitchell wrote:

>> Why would someone ever have a non-writable home directory?
>
> As a person who does just such a thing....
>
> Students have NetWare logins which authenticate and give them a "home
> directory" where they store their files.  They log on to the NT domain 
> as
> merely "student" however, which is a dummy account with very few
> permissions.  This prevents them from mucking about with the config. 
> of the
> machines and helps our two techs to keep 400 hetergeneous machines up 
> and
> running.
>
> The "Student" account technically has a home directory of some kind, 
> but
> students logged in can't write to it, and that's by design.
>
> So it all depends on what Windows considers to be the home directory 
> vs. what
> admins consider it to be.
>
> I can also imagine a situation (perhaps in a library) where computers 
> are
> more like kiosks and patrons can't write to the HD at all (well, 
> generally
> at least), and must save everything to a USB keychain drive or floppy 
> or
> what-have-you.
>
> Anyway, just FYI.
>
> -- 
> Graham Mitchell - computer science teacher, Leander High School
> "Reading is to the mind what exercise is to the body."
> 	- Sir Richard Steele
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials
> Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of
> GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system
> administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id=3638&op=click
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-devel mailing list
> Audacity-devel@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel

> Currently Audacity is not designed to run in a system without any
> temporary storage space at all.

Oh, and I should mention that in my computer lab, C:\WINNT\TEMP is writable, 
but it's wiped on logout.

I can imagine a student trying to install Audacity to their "home directory" 
(which is a NetWare drive mapped to U:, BTW).  The student isn't allowed to 
modify the registry, so all of that would fail.  And Windows thinks their 
home directory is somewhere different.

I think it'd be reasonable to hope that a student could install Audacity to 
their U: drive and get it to run and work on files after a fashion.  Though 
I wouldn't then expect it to remember any preferences afterward.

-- 
Graham Mitchell - computer science teacher, Leander High School
"There has grown up in the minds of certain groups in this country the notion
that because a man or corporation has made a profit out of the public for a
number of years, the government and the courts are charged with the duty of
guaranteeing such profit in the future, even in the face of changing
circumstances and contrary to public interest. This strange doctrine is not
supported by statute or common law. Neither individuals nor corporations have
any right to come into court and ask that the clock of history be stopped, or
turned back."
	-- Robert Heinlein, "Life-Line"

Dominic Mazzoni wrote:

> > By default, wxSingleInstanceChecker creates a lockfile in the user's
> > home directory on OS X and Unix.  This causes problems for users
> > with non-writable or network-mounted home directories (usually in
> > school computer labs).
>
> Why would someone ever have a non-writable home directory?
>
> I'm happy to support these people, but I don't understand why even an
> NFS-mounted Home wouldn't be writable.

Actually, the problem with NFS-mounted $HOME seems to be that file
locking with flock() doesn't work over NFS.  If wxSingleInstanceChecker
was modified to use fcntl(F_SETLK) by default instead of flock(), it
might work in more situations.

Still, since the purpose of the lock is to protect our temp directory,
I think that's where it should be created (as you suggest below).  That
way, users can run Audacity from multiple machines that share a home
directory, as long as their temp directories are not shared.

> > I want to change this to create lockfiles in the temp directory, since
> > this directory should be local and writable even when $HOME isn't.
>
> That sounds okay, but I'm slightly worried that this won't actually
> fix the problem, it will just cause a different set of users to have
> problems.  For example, on some shared systems I'm on, /tmp is very
> small, and sometimes another user on the system fills up /tmp
> completely by accident, making it impossible for me to create a file
> there.
>
> So I think that the real solution should involve a smarter way of
> detecting when the default location is not writable and giving the
> user the option of picking something new.
>
> In fact, since we already have this code for choosing Audacity's temp
> directory, why don't we just use that directory?  Just put a file
> called "lock" in that directory.

Yes, that's exactly what I was planning.

> >  * Mac OS X:  Currently we use the Audacity program folder.
> >    Should be in /tmp or /var/tmp.
>
> No, that's the Mac OS 9 code you're looking at.  It uses /tmp on
> Mac OS X.

Oh, good.  Actually, it looks like I misread the Windows code too.
Both of these already behave correctly (they use the directory chosen
by wxFileName::AssignTempFileName()).

Dominic Mazzoni wrote:

> In fact, since we already have this code for choosing Audacity's temp
> directory, why don't we just use that directory?  Just put a file
> called "lock" in that directory.

I've committed this change to CVS (HEAD and AUDACITY_1_2).  I didn't
actually need to make any changes to the Mac/Windows temp dir code.

as i said yesterday, i wrote a mail which can be send to the users you know
tell me how do you find it, correct my english and the things i'm saying
the wrong way

------------

Audacity has become a popular alternative for sound editing, for open
source as well as proprietary platfroms. Today Audacity is starting a
survey on it's usability.

This appends some weeks after the release of version 1.2 where major
changes occurs but we want Audacity to get even better. We are
concerned a lot about your experience in using Audacity and sharing it
is the best way for us to evaluate and improve the software in a
user-centered perspective.

That's why we want you to get involve in this process. A first step in
this survey will be to get to know you, as a user, in order to know
better your expectations from Audacity. A first step can be to answer
this questionnaire :)

- what are you using Audacity for ?
e.g "to do some analysis in indian musicology, i have to study
     rythmical patterns, changes in the tempo, frequencies, ..."

- what kind of tasks are you performing with Audacity most of the time ?
e.g "for my studies i'm doing a lot of 'zoom in' 'zoom out', to mark
some beats precisely i'm also using lots of labels and a few effects
like equalization, but not many tracks"

- what kind of problems are you facing with current Audacity interface ?
e.g "the label track really sucks ! and while playing the cursor is
not always synchronized with the playback . but the 'zoom to
selection' button is very helpful"

- who are you and what are you technical skills ( in computer as well
as sound editing ) ?
e.g "i'm a computer-science student and i'm using sound editors for
some years and various purposes . i'm also composing !"

- would you like to participate in some other way to the improvement
  of the interface ?
this can include doing some usability testing, working on some design
ideas, drawing graphics, ...

You can send your answers to : some_email@...
Of course, all answers to this questionnaire will be for internal use
only and precisely for this survey. Nothing will be sell or given to
anybody.

Several other tools can be used to discuss the Audacity interface :

- a part of the audacity wiki is open for discussions on the interface
      http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.pl?AudacityUserInterface

- the audacity-users list is still a way to keep in touch
      audacity-users@...
      http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-users

------------


about the email address : what can we use ? i'm ready to be take care of
all the answers but i don't want to give my personal mail . i can create a
new one anyway
about the wiki : you think it can be a good tool ? i have to prepare some
first pages, and after build something about the tasks, and a repository
for interface problems, with categories and all ...

.
nico

I like this idea.  If you're willing to take the time to read the 
survey results and summarize the most frequently mentioned points, that 
would be extremely valuable.

I made your message a little bit more concise and fixed some grammar.  
When you're ready to send it out, I'll create a mail account 
"survey@..." for you.  Would you prefer to access it via 
POP/IMAP or just have it forward directly to your mail account?  (Users 
wouldn't see your actual email address.)

Other ideas for questions:

- Did you ever use any of the built-in Help (from the Help menu in 
Audacity)?  How helpful was it?  Any specific suggestions on how to 
improve it?

- Did you read part of the complete Audacity manual (available from the 
website)?  How helpful was it?  Any specific suggestions on how to 
improve it?

- Are there any tasks that you would like to do with Audacity that you 
can't currently do?  (You don't have to describe how it would work, 
just what you want to accomplish.)

- Have you encountered any bugs in Audacity?  How serious were they 
(did they cause data loss)?  Were you able to work around any problems 
you encountered, or do you still run into bugs?

- Did Audacity ever do anything that you found unintuitive or 
surprising (in a bad way)?  What happened, and what should Audacity 
have done so that you wouldn't have been confused?

Here's the rest of your writeup:

--

This is a survey on the usability of Audacity, because the developers 
want to continue to improve Audacity and help it meet more people's 
needs.  We are very interested in your experience with using Audacity, 
and sharing it with us is the best way for us to evaluate and improve 
the software in a user-centered perspective.

1. What are you using Audacity for ? (e.g "studying rhythmical patterns 
for Indian musicology" or "making a demo CD of my rock band")

2. What basic features in Audacity do you use the most often? (e.g "I'm 
doing a lot of 'zoom in' 'zoom out', to mark some beats precisely I'm 
also using lots of labels and a few effects like equalization, but not 
many tracks")

3. What kind of problems are you facing with current Audacity interface 
? (e.g "the label track really sucks, and while playing the cursor is 
not always synchronized with the playback, but the 'zoom to selection' 
button is very helpful")

4. Who are you and what are you technical skills (with computers as 
well as sound editing)? e.g "I'm a computer-science student and I'm 
using sound editors for some years and various purposes.  I'm also a 
composer!"

5. Would you like to participate in some other way to improve the user 
interface?  This can include doing some usability testing, working on 
some design ideas, drawing graphics, ...

You can send your answers to: survey@...

Of course, all answers to this questionnaire will be for internal use 
only and precisely for this survey.  Nothing will be sold or given to 
anybody.

Several other tools can be used to discuss the Audacity interface :

- A part of the Audacity Wiki is open for discussions on the interface:
       http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.pl?AudacityUserInterface

- The Audacity-Users mailing list is still a way to keep in touch
       audacity-users@...
       http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-users

On Apr 18, 2004, at 12:06 AM, Nicolas Falquet wrote:

>
> as i said yesterday, i wrote a mail which can be send to the users you 
> know
> tell me how do you find it, correct my english and the things i'm 
> saying
> the wrong way
>
> ------------
>
> Audacity has become a popular alternative for sound editing, for open
> source as well as proprietary platfroms. Today Audacity is starting a
> survey on it's usability.
>
> This appends some weeks after the release of version 1.2 where major
> changes occurs but we want Audacity to get even better. We are
> concerned a lot about your experience in using Audacity and sharing it
> is the best way for us to evaluate and improve the software in a
> user-centered perspective.
>
> That's why we want you to get involve in this process. A first step in
> this survey will be to get to know you, as a user, in order to know
> better your expectations from Audacity. A first step can be to answer
> this questionnaire :)
>
> - what are you using Audacity for ?
> e.g "to do some analysis in indian musicology, i have to study
>      rythmical patterns, changes in the tempo, frequencies, ..."
>
> - what kind of tasks are you performing with Audacity most of the time 
> ?
> e.g "for my studies i'm doing a lot of 'zoom in' 'zoom out', to mark
> some beats precisely i'm also using lots of labels and a few effects
> like equalization, but not many tracks"
>
> - what kind of problems are you facing with current Audacity interface 
> ?
> e.g "the label track really sucks ! and while playing the cursor is
> not always synchronized with the playback . but the 'zoom to
> selection' button is very helpful"
>
> - who are you and what are you technical skills ( in computer as well
> as sound editing ) ?
> e.g "i'm a computer-science student and i'm using sound editors for
> some years and various purposes . i'm also composing !"
>
> - would you like to participate in some other way to the improvement
>   of the interface ?
> this can include doing some usability testing, working on some design
> ideas, drawing graphics, ...
>
> You can send your answers to : some_email@...
> Of course, all answers to this questionnaire will be for internal use
> only and precisely for this survey. Nothing will be sell or given to
> anybody.
>
> Several other tools can be used to discuss the Audacity interface :
>
> - a part of the audacity wiki is open for discussions on the interface
>       http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.pl?AudacityUserInterface
>
> - the audacity-users list is still a way to keep in touch
>       audacity-users@...
>       http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-users
>
> ------------
>
>
> about the email address : what can we use ? i'm ready to be take care 
> of
> all the answers but i don't want to give my personal mail . i can 
> create a
> new one anyway
> about the wiki : you think it can be a good tool ? i have to prepare 
> some
> first pages, and after build something about the tasks, and a 
> repository
> for interface problems, with categories and all ...
>
> .
> nico
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials
> Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of
> GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system
> administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id=3638&op=click
> _______________________________________________
> Audacity-devel mailing list
> Audacity-devel@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel

> I like this idea.

whou ! thank you

> If you're willing to take the time to read the survey results and
> summarize the most frequently mentioned points, that would be extremely
> valuable.

yep, that's what i want to do
and, about the multiple choice proposal, i think that the purpose of this
survey is to get completely free answers and the multiple choices will
limit the users to some categories, the categories that we imagine, but
this survey have also to bring out some surprises
and the kind of questions we put won't be good in multiple choice also

anyway, in 2 weeks i will be enjoying 4 months of vacations ( jealous ? )
so, don't worry i'll have time :)

> I made your message a little bit more concise and fixed some grammar.

ok

> When you're ready to send it out, I'll create a mail account
> "survey@..." for you.  Would you prefer to access it via
> POP/IMAP or just have it forward directly to your mail account?  (Users
> wouldn't see your actual email address.)

mmm ... you should maybe put a more generic name, if we want to use it
later for some other usability stuff . what about
usability@... or hci@... ? ( i choose
usability@... in the text )
you can forward it to my account that's fine

> Other ideas for questions:

mmm ... i wanted to keep the questionnaire as short as possible

> - Did you ever use any of the built-in Help (from the Help menu in
> Audacity)?  How helpful was it?  Any specific suggestions on how to
> improve it?
>
> - Did you read part of the complete Audacity manual (available from the
> website)?  How helpful was it?  Any specific suggestions on how to
> improve it?

we can sum up the two questions in one about the overall support ( help,
manual, tutorial )

- Did you use any form of support ( built-in help, manual ), How helpful
was it? Are the supports appropriate?

> - Are there any tasks that you would like to do with Audacity that you
> can't currently do?  (You don't have to describe how it would work,
> just what you want to accomplish.)

fine

> - Have you encountered any bugs in Audacity?  How serious were they
> (did they cause data loss)?  Were you able to work around any problems
> you encountered, or do you still run into bugs?

it's not my problem :) you really want to put this technical question ?

> - Did Audacity ever do anything that you found unintuitive or
> surprising (in a bad way)?  What happened, and what should Audacity
> have done so that you wouldn't have been confused?

fine

ok, so i send you a text version of the new survey ( i hope it's fine on
this mailing list ) . tomorrow i will put some pages on the wiki and we
should be able to start it tomorrow night ( your night ) if it's fine for
everybody

we will also need to thing about where to find the mail addresses to send
you must have a bunch of people you know, we can use both the devel and
users list . what about send it to some related "sound" list ? i'm not
much aware of that ... ( i also added a "please forward" blabla in the
survey )

.
nico