What about changing the aerodynamic computation so they take place based=20
on radius from the earth and at what would be sea level change the air=20
density to that of water.
Then any object below sealevel "flys under those equations. It would=20
allow for surface ships and submarines.
And load in the whole terrain map of the world including all=20
The water surface could then just be a specialized cloud layer.
That would give a great start.
On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 10:30 am, Steve Hosgood wrote:
> Martin Doege wrote:
>> Hi Steve!
>> Naval simulations are great, but if integrating tides into the=20
>> present-day ocean in FG is such a big technical challenge as it seems=20
>> to be, I would not think that a "real" ocean with rolling waves,=20
>> reefs, bathymetry, etc. is right around the corner. I think you would=20
>> want to have something like in Virtual Sailor or Silent Hunter III and=
>> that is simply far removed from the blue plane that is currently the=20
>> sea in FG.
> Hi Martin.
> I'm not sure the tides issue is likely to be a "big technical=20
> challenge" actually. In the space of about 4 postings here, a workable=20
> scheme was proposed of colouring certain triangles "sea" or "mud"=20
> according to their datum heights as compared with a local simplified=20
> tideheight generator.
> I can provide the maths for a tideheight generator, the only "problem"=20
> is providing a suitable set of triangles (tagged with datum heights)=A0=
> in a known tidal area. Also, on a tile-by-tile basis, a set of=20
> (probably four) tidal vectors has to be given.
> The graphics engine needs to know how to do the colouring on-the-fly,=20
> but compared with the magic that the 3D experts on this project have=20
> already acheived, that'll be done in an evening as soon as someone sets=
> out to do it!
>> But in general naval simulations don't always need flashy graphics to=20
>> be fun, so finding a good graphics engine is probably not so important=
>> at this point.
> I ws intimating that I don't have to find one - I've found it! Right=20
> here. :-)
>> As with all simulations, what really makes them absorbing is the=20
>> feeling of "being there", and while good graphics don't hurt, good=20
>> gameplay matters more. For example, the submarine sim Red Storm Rising=
>> mostly had only tactical displays to look at that look about as boring=
>> as it gets, and yet it was an engaging game and the suspension of=20
>> disbelief worked well.
> That's about what the current "surprise" program (windoze or linux)=20
> has. It's really just a wrapper around the "FDM" to let the "FDM" be=20
> used for something.
>> So instead of hoping for great seascapes from FG/SimGear in the near=20
>> (or not so near) future, I would first improve your existing "FDM",=20
>> add the ocean, include navigation aids, etc.
> Stars, sun and a stopwatch. That's all you get!
> Ok. Ok, I'm joking of course. That's all you get in the 18th century,=20
> but if sailing ships worm their way into the FG world, they'll be=20
> usable in any timeframe. After all, tall ships are still with us in the=
> 21st century.
>> Cannons and a damage model should also be added since you are=20
>> mentioning Hornblower.
>> As in Sid Meier's Pirates!, the crew should also be simulated, [giant=20
> Funny, you've just written almost exactly what I wrote to "The Admiral"=
> (Peter Davis) last year. His comments were that he never planned to=20
> make a game of the sim - his sentiments in fact matched closely to=20
> those we hear all the time here on the FlightGear discussions group.=20
> It's to be an accurate sim first and foremost, but if people want to=20
> add guns/missiles etc then that's up to them.
> I talked about crew, crew morale etc. (I've been a pen&paper RPG-er for=
> a long time.) Same sort of response - basically, he (Davis) is only=20
> really interested in getting the sim to work well and would be=20
> disappointed to see the project "degenerate" into "just a game".
> Of course, done well then there's no reason why any of the additions=20
> you mention would degenerate the project - they should be seen as=20
>> Graphics could initially be fairly minimal, perhaps isometric view or=20
> Dovetailing into FG would allow 3D models from the start. I really=20
> don't want to have to build a custom isometric or 2D graphics engine=20
> just for "surprise".
>> This would also give you time to develop a good interface.
> All your points are very valid - especially this one. Unlike aircraft,=20
> saling ships don't have a single "point of control". The nearest (in=20
> 18th century parlance) is "the quarterdeck" where the master or captain=
> issues the orders, which then have to be relayed through several layers=
> of middlemen to the grunts who pull the ropes. There is of course a=20
> "ship's wheel" but it's not a single point of control to compare with=20
> (say) an aircraft control column.
> Try it with "suprise". The ship's wheel does precious little unless the=
> ship is moving at quite a lick. It's the set of the sails (especially=20
> the spanker) that really steers the thing.
>> I would also use a higher-level language for faster development and=20
>> improved flexibility. Python comes to mind and has the advantage that=20
>> the existing BASIC code should be easily converted to it and that=20
>> there is Libglade and pyGlade. It is also nicely modular and its sane=20
>> implementation of object orientation as well as its use of generators=20
>> are definite boons for simulations. At a later point, 3D graphics=20
>> could be added if desired, e.g. via PyOpenGL or using code in C/C++.
> The existing code isn't BASIC, it's 'C' that looks like BASIC :-)
> As I stated before - Davis wrote the original in BASIC and ported it to=
> 'C' many years later.
> I'm looking for volunteers, me hearties! First jobs involve completing=20
> the linux version to have all the features of the windoze original.=20
> Then there's the work involved in completing the segregation of GUI=20
> code from the "FDM". Then there's work in making the new sources=20
> compile on windoze to provide the same functionality it has now, but=20
> cleanly this time.
> Then there's the possibility of heaving the ship FDM into FlightGear,=20
> probably mis-using a "3D cockpit" idea to provide all the controls of=20
> rudder, yard-arms and sail-setting. Following that, a 3D model of the=20
> ship to make the "view out of the cockpit" look roughly like what you'd
> see over the rail of the quarterdeck.
> If this all gets left to me, it'll be 2018 at least before I'm anywhere=
> near it! But with interested vounteers aboard, anything is possible.=20
> Tomorrow even.
>> PS. You might want to consider registering your Linux port of Surprise=
>> at Freshmeat.
> Currently, I consider it too incomplete. Also, the source code is an=20
> Source code is only available to people who sign a "non embarrassing=20
> disclosure" agreement :-)
> (Nahhh, not really. Anyway, it's GPL as you all well know. It's just=20
> *embarrassing* GPL, that's all.)
Bush's family and Saudi partners make higher profits/prices by=20
preventing Saddam's huge Iraqi oil reserves from ever being sold.=20
They'll Enron the world - George Watson 2001
For solar wind and earthquakes
Typos caused by two inch mobile phone keyboard=