galeon

On 29 May 2001 22:49:18 +0200, Christian Rose wrote:
> Should galeon use the term "folder" instead of "directory" in its
> messages?
> Both Nautilus and Evolution use the "folder" terminology. What do you
> think?

its another tricky issue, but ....
Folder is shorter than Directory, so it wins ;P)


thanks for bringing the question menthos:)
yanko

On 29 May 2001 22:49:18 +0200, Christian Rose wrote:
> Should galeon use the term "folder" instead of "directory" in its
> messages?
> Both Nautilus and Evolution use the "folder" terminology. What do you
> think?

its always nice to see that people
measure everything with nautilus and
evolution.

nautilus and evolution ARE NOT the
corner of knowledge. i think GALEON
should be measured against the GNOME
2.x specs instead of other crappy
programs. thats why everyone likes
NAUTILUS :)

--
Name....: Ali Akcaagac
Status..: Student Of Computer & Economic Science
E-Mail..: mailto:ali.akcaagac@...
 http://www.....: http://www.fh-wilhelmshaven.de/~akcaagaa

On 30 May 2001 02:28:04 +0200, Ali Akcaagac wrote:
> On 29 May 2001 22:49:18 +0200, Christian Rose wrote:
> > Should galeon use the term "folder" instead of "directory" in its
> > messages?
> > Both Nautilus and Evolution use the "folder" terminology. What do you
> > think?
> 
> its always nice to see that people
> measure everything with nautilus and
> evolution.
> 
> nautilus and evolution ARE NOT the
> corner of knowledge. i think GALEON
> should be measured against the GNOME
> 2.x specs instead of other crappy
> programs. thats why everyone likes
> NAUTILUS :)

... and above all consistency is more important than being right (in my
opinion).

Damian

On 30 May 2001 10:34:13 +1000, Damian Ivereigh wrote:
> 
> On 30 May 2001 02:28:04 +0200, Ali Akcaagac wrote:
> > On 29 May 2001 22:49:18 +0200, Christian Rose wrote:
> > > Should galeon use the term "folder" instead of "directory" in its
> > > messages?
> > > Both Nautilus and Evolution use the "folder" terminology. What do you
> > > think?
> > 
> > its always nice to see that people
> > measure everything with nautilus and
> > evolution.
> > 
> > nautilus and evolution ARE NOT the
> > corner of knowledge. i think GALEON
> > should be measured against the GNOME
> > 2.x specs instead of other crappy
> > programs. thats why everyone likes
> > NAUTILUS :)
> 
> ... and above all consistency is more important than being right (in my
> opinion).

exactly, consistency against GNOME 2.0 specs )

time for nautilus and evolution to change some behave in their programs
:)

--
Name....: Ali Akcaagac
Status..: Student Of Computer & Economic Science
E-Mail..: mailto:ali.akcaagac@...
 http://www.....: http://www.fh-wilhelmshaven.de/~akcaagaa

Ali Akcaagac wrote:
> > Should galeon use the term "folder" instead of "directory" in its
> > messages?
> > Both Nautilus and Evolution use the "folder" terminology. What do you
> > think?
> 
> its always nice to see that people
> measure everything with nautilus and
> evolution.
> 
> nautilus and evolution ARE NOT the
> corner of knowledge. i think GALEON
> should be measured against the GNOME
> 2.x specs instead of other crappy
> programs. thats why everyone likes
> NAUTILUS :)

The Gnome 2.x specs are not done yet (AFAIK). And I don't agree about
your comment about Nautilus and Evolution - those two *are* important
GNOME projects, and projects that have also affected a lot of Gnome, and
how Gnome 2.0 will be like.

Anyway, if you don't like Evolution and Nautilus, you can measure with
MacOS and Windows. Both of these environments use "folder" too.


Christian

Ali Akcaagac wrote:
> > ... and above all consistency is more important than being right (in my
> > opinion).
> 
> exactly, consistency against GNOME 2.0 specs )
> 
> time for nautilus and evolution to change some behave in their programs
> :)

Where are those specs, and could you please point me to the section that
exactly says "directory" should be used instead of "folder"? (That's
what you are suggesting, isn't it?)


Christian

On 30 May 2001 02:48:41 +0200, Christian Rose wrote:
> Ali Akcaagac wrote:
> > > Should galeon use the term "folder" instead of "directory" in its
> > > messages?
> > > Both Nautilus and Evolution use the "folder" terminology. What do you
> > > think?
> > 
> > its always nice to see that people
> > measure everything with nautilus and
> > evolution.
> > 
> > nautilus and evolution ARE NOT the
> > corner of knowledge. i think GALEON
> > should be measured against the GNOME
> > 2.x specs instead of other crappy
> > programs. thats why everyone likes
> > NAUTILUS :)
> 
> The Gnome 2.x specs are not done yet (AFAIK). And I don't agree about
> your comment about Nautilus and Evolution - those two *are* important
> GNOME projects, and projects that have also affected a lot of Gnome, and
> how Gnome 2.0 will be like.

ugh will gnome 2.0 will really look like this -?-

> Anyway, if you don't like Evolution and Nautilus, you can measure with
> MacOS and Windows. Both of these environments use "folder" too.

yeah who said that GNOME should be a copy of WINDOWS ? or MAC ?

--
Name....: Ali Akcaagac
Status..: Student Of Computer & Economic Science
E-Mail..: mailto:ali.akcaagac@...
 http://www.....: http://www.fh-wilhelmshaven.de/~akcaagaa

On 30 May 2001 02:50:57 +0200, Christian Rose wrote:
> Ali Akcaagac wrote:
> > > ... and above all consistency is more important than being right (in my
> > > opinion).
> > 
> > exactly, consistency against GNOME 2.0 specs )
> > 
> > time for nautilus and evolution to change some behave in their programs
> > :)
> 
> Where are those specs, and could you please point me to the section that
> exactly says "directory" should be used instead of "folder"? (That's
> what you are suggesting, isn't it?)

now dont get a heart attack.

i dont have the will and the time
discussing this, go to
http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/
or however its called. i am not up
to stick around with values now 1.4
or 2.0 no matter. what i am up to
say is i dont want EVERY new GNOME
shit comes out want to LOOK like
NAUTILUS. i dont want to continue
this SAD discussion, please keep my
comments as they are. i really
appreciate programmers would keep an
eye on some predefined SPECS no
matter if 1.4 or 2.0.

now i start nautilus, now point me
to any NAUTILUS specs within
nautilus itself ? people start the
program, see it looks nice (not to
talk about the usability) and want
their program to behave exactly like
it.

by the way enter some of these lines
to have it WORKING like it too.

for(i=0;i>65000;i++)

i think the gnome community was
already split enough the past months
after the first release of evolution
so lets stop this way of
argumenting. i am one of these dudes
that GOT split from GNOME too. the
only reason why i remain on GNOME
right now is that i still beliving
in it and that i still belive on the
brain of certain programmers. i
really like GALEON and the effort
spent into this project. i am
following the steps of galeon for
many many months now and i also like
the programmers because of cool
chats on irc and elsewhere, only
GALEON still keeps me using GNOME. i
have a vision and hope that GNOME
2.0 will become normalized again. so
stop this discussion with me. i
really dont care much what you
status in the GNOME community is and
what not.

--
Name....: Ali Akcaagac
Status..: Student Of Computer & Economic Science
E-Mail..: mailto:ali.akcaagac@...
 http://www.....: http://www.fh-wilhelmshaven.de/~akcaagaa

On 30 May 2001 02:50:57 +0200, Christian Rose wrote:
> Ali Akcaagac wrote:
> > > ... and above all consistency is more important than being right (in my
> > > opinion).
> > 
> > exactly, consistency against GNOME 2.0 specs )
> > 
> > time for nautilus and evolution to change some behave in their programs
> > :)
> 
> Where are those specs, and could you please point me to the section that
> exactly says "directory" should be used instead of "folder"? (That's
> what you are suggesting, isn't it?)

"...i think the gnome community was
already split enough the past months
after the first release of evolution
so lets stop this way of..."

s/evolution/nautilus/g

--
Name....: Ali Akcaagac
Status..: Student Of Computer & Economic Science
E-Mail..: mailto:ali.akcaagac@...
 http://www.....: http://www.fh-wilhelmshaven.de/~akcaagaa

Ali Akcaagac wrote:
> > > nautilus and evolution ARE NOT the
> > > corner of knowledge. i think GALEON
> > > should be measured against the GNOME
> > > 2.x specs instead of other crappy
> > > programs. thats why everyone likes
> > > NAUTILUS :)
> >
> > The Gnome 2.x specs are not done yet (AFAIK). And I don't agree about
> > your comment about Nautilus and Evolution - those two *are* important
> > GNOME projects, and projects that have also affected a lot of Gnome, and
> > how Gnome 2.0 will be like.
> 
> ugh will gnome 2.0 will really look like this -?-

Yes, with the addition of gtk+ 2 and lots of other nifty stuff. :-)


> > Anyway, if you don't like Evolution and Nautilus, you can measure with
> > MacOS and Windows. Both of these environments use "folder" too.
> 
> yeah who said that GNOME should be a copy of WINDOWS ? or MAC ?

We want to conquer the world, don't we? That means, among other things,
that we must use terminology that ex-Windows and ex-Mac users recognize
and understand.
No, GNOME should not be a copy, but there's no point in being
deliberately different when it has no advantage but just drawbacks.


Christian

Ali Akcaagac wrote:
> > > > ... and above all consistency is more important than being right (in my
> > > > opinion).
> > >
> > > exactly, consistency against GNOME 2.0 specs )
> > >
> > > time for nautilus and evolution to change some behave in their programs
> > > :)
> >
> > Where are those specs, and could you please point me to the section that
> > exactly says "directory" should be used instead of "folder"? (That's
> > what you are suggesting, isn't it?)
> 
> now dont get a heart attack.
> 
> i dont have the will and the time
> discussing this, go to
> http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/
> or however its called. i am not up

That's API specs... There's nothing about UI issues in there. I don't
see anything about the "directory"/"folder" issue in there. What is your
point?


> to stick around with values now 1.4
> or 2.0 no matter. what i am up to
> say is i dont want EVERY new GNOME
> shit comes out want to LOOK like
> NAUTILUS.

Why not? Nautilus is the piece of software in GNOME that by far has had
the most user testing!


> i dont want to continue
> this SAD discussion, please keep my
> comments as they are. i really
> appreciate programmers would keep an
> eye on some predefined SPECS no
> matter if 1.4 or 2.0.

The point is that you point to API specs when we are talking about UI
issues, and I thus don't understand a single thing of what you are
trying to say.


> now i start nautilus, now point me
> to any NAUTILUS specs within
> nautilus itself ? people start the
> program, see it looks nice (not to
> talk about the usability) and want
> their program to behave exactly like
> it.
> 
> by the way enter some of these lines
> to have it WORKING like it too.
> 
> for(i=0;i>65000;i++)

Are you just trolling? I see no constructive criticism anywhere, just
flames with no support.


> i think the gnome community was
> already split enough the past months
> after the first release of evolution
> so lets stop this way of
> argumenting. i am one of these dudes
> that GOT split from GNOME too. the
> only reason why i remain on GNOME
> right now is that i still beliving
> in it and that i still belive on the
> brain of certain programmers. i
> really like GALEON and the effort
> spent into this project. i am
> following the steps of galeon for
> many many months now and i also like
> the programmers because of cool
> chats on irc and elsewhere, only
> GALEON still keeps me using GNOME. i
> have a vision and hope that GNOME
> 2.0 will become normalized again.

That depends on what you mean by "normal".


> so stop this discussion with me. i
> really dont care much what you
> status in the GNOME community is and
> what not.

1) Why do you bring up this off-topic rant in the first place if you do
not want to answer anything, and
2) why has who I am something to do with it? I'm noone special.


Christian


PS. Why do you insist on writing your letters 40 characters wide? It's
just hard to read and a lot of scrolling. DS.

On 30 May 2001 03:29:05 +0200, Christian Rose wrote:
> > > > nautilus and evolution ARE NOT the
> > > > corner of knowledge. i think GALEON
> > > > should be measured against the GNOME
> > > > 2.x specs instead of other crappy
> > > > programs. thats why everyone likes
> > > > NAUTILUS :)
> > >
> > > The Gnome 2.x specs are not done yet (AFAIK). And I don't agree about
> > > your comment about Nautilus and Evolution - those two *are* important
> > > GNOME projects, and projects that have also affected a lot of Gnome, and
> > > how Gnome 2.0 will be like.
> > 
> > ugh will gnome 2.0 will really look like this -?-
> 
> Yes, with the addition of gtk+ 2 and lots of other nifty stuff. :-)
> 
> 
> > > Anyway, if you don't like Evolution and Nautilus, you can measure with
> > > MacOS and Windows. Both of these environments use "folder" too.
> > 
> > yeah who said that GNOME should be a copy of WINDOWS ? or MAC ?
> 
> We want to conquer the world, don't we? That means, among other things,
> that we must use terminology that ex-Windows and ex-Mac users recognize
> and understand.
> No, GNOME should not be a copy, but there's no point in being
> deliberately different when it has no advantage but just drawbacks.

yeah right. thats what exactly
should become true and happen. but
always keep this sentence in mind.

'dont ask how we could improve
GNOME, ask how we can keep existing
GNOME users and/or new GNOMERS if we
continue this way'

hm awfull sentence, well you got an
idea. amongst all good ideas and
visions devlopers have and all the
time and hard work they spent making
it better. you should always keep in
mind that there are EXISTING gnomers
out. they went for GNOME because of
some reason. they want to WORK
easily with the programs they get,
they dont want to experiment around
with them. as you said evolution and
nautilus are both IMPORTANT projects
for the gnome community (so is
galeon). many developers for
nautilus and evolution have good
ideas and show their skills,
unfortunately they view from the
PROGRAMMER side instead of the USERS
side. people want working programs
now and no EXPERIMENTS. evolution is
far from beeing usable (stability)
so is nautilus (getting better but
nothing got added to cvs the past
5-6 days (bad sign imo)). so you
cant keep people on gnome with such
programs, good idea bad usage.

oki anyways lets stop this
discussion, aint my point at all. i
just wanted to point out that i
dislike the way people think. they
compare all shit to nautilus instead
of the CORE idea GNOME. if you want
to do something, follow the way of
GNOME and not the way of a BROKEN
MAC company. thats phase 2.

--
Name....: Ali Akcaagac
Status..: Student Of Computer & Economic Science
E-Mail..: mailto:ali.akcaagac@...
 http://www.....: http://www.fh-wilhelmshaven.de/~akcaagaa

Ali Akcaagac wrote:
> > > > ... and above all consistency is more important than being right (in my
> > > > opinion).
> > >
> > > exactly, consistency against GNOME 2.0 specs )
> > >
> > > time for nautilus and evolution to change some behave in their programs
> > > :)
> >
> > Where are those specs, and could you please point me to the section that
> > exactly says "directory" should be used instead of "folder"? (That's
> > what you are suggesting, isn't it?)
> 
> "...i think the gnome community was
> already split enough the past months
> after the first release of evolution
> so lets stop this way of..."
> 
> s/evolution/nautilus/g

Now that's *your* quote.
Don't worry, I couldn't find any support for the idea that "directory"
would be preferred over "folder" for GNOME 2.x anywhere either.

What I know is the thread in gnome-gui-list:
http://lists.gnome.org/archives/gnome-gui-list/2001-April/msg00024.html

Some interesting quotes:
"In the real world, folders are things that contain other files, whilst
directories are something you look into like a telephone directory. My
point is the user will already be familiar with the concept 'folder'
from real world experience and it would be easier to maintain
consistency with the "Real world" than merely 'Unix'."
(http://lists.gnome.org/archives/gnome-gui-list/2001-April/msg00052.html)

"'folder' is shorter, easier to spell, easier to type, easier to show
as a visual icon, and a lot more meaningful as a metaphor in terms of
its dictionary definition and etymology. (Unless, of course, you
think using Latin terms is good.)"
(http://lists.gnome.org/archives/gnome-gui-list/2001-April/msg00087.html)

"My feeling at this point is that by sheer weight of numbers the
'folder' supporters have won. So it's now a matter of spreading the
word among developers."
(http://lists.gnome.org/archives/gnome-gui-list/2001-April/msg00118.html)


Christian

On 30 May 2001 03:42:23 +0200, Christian Rose wrote:
> > > Where are those specs, and could you please point me to the section that
> > > exactly says "directory" should be used instead of "folder"? (That's
> > > what you are suggesting, isn't it?)
> > 
> > now dont get a heart attack.
> > 
> > i dont have the will and the time
> > discussing this, go to
> > http://developer.gnome.org/doc/API/
> > or however its called. i am not up
> 
> That's API specs... There's nothing about UI issues in there. I don't
> see anything about the "directory"/"folder" issue in there. What is your
> point?

you loose some points arent you ? arent we talking about directory and
folder issues ? about whats written in some buttons ? such things should
be pointed out in some styling- or programmingguides... i always thought
these things exists for gnome.

i am not willing to comment the rest. i am not going to turn this into a
troll area.

--
Name....: Ali Akcaagac
Status..: Student Of Computer & Economic Science
E-Mail..: mailto:ali.akcaagac@...
 http://www.....: http://www.fh-wilhelmshaven.de/~akcaagaa

I belive you have proven your point =)

On 30 May 2001 03:58:42 +0200, Christian Rose wrote:
> Ali Akcaagac wrote:
> > > > > ... and above all consistency is more important than being right (in my
> > > > > opinion).
> > > >
> > > > exactly, consistency against GNOME 2.0 specs )
> > > >
> > > > time for nautilus and evolution to change some behave in their programs
> > > > :)
> > >
> > > Where are those specs, and could you please point me to the section that
> > > exactly says "directory" should be used instead of "folder"? (That's
> > > what you are suggesting, isn't it?)
> > 
> > "...i think the gnome community was
> > already split enough the past months
> > after the first release of evolution
> > so lets stop this way of..."
> > 
> > s/evolution/nautilus/g
> 
> Now that's *your* quote.
> Don't worry, I couldn't find any support for the idea that "directory"
> would be preferred over "folder" for GNOME 2.x anywhere either.
> 
> What I know is the thread in gnome-gui-list:
> http://lists.gnome.org/archives/gnome-gui-list/2001-April/msg00024.html
> 
> Some interesting quotes:
> "In the real world, folders are things that contain other files, whilst
> directories are something you look into like a telephone directory. My
> point is the user will already be familiar with the concept 'folder'
> from real world experience and it would be easier to maintain
> consistency with the "Real world" than merely 'Unix'."
> (http://lists.gnome.org/archives/gnome-gui-list/2001-April/msg00052.html)
> 
> "'folder' is shorter, easier to spell, easier to type, easier to show
> as a visual icon, and a lot more meaningful as a metaphor in terms of
> its dictionary definition and etymology. (Unless, of course, you
> think using Latin terms is good.)"
> (http://lists.gnome.org/archives/gnome-gui-list/2001-April/msg00087.html)
> 
> "My feeling at this point is that by sheer weight of numbers the
> 'folder' supporters have won. So it's now a matter of spreading the
> word among developers."
> (http://lists.gnome.org/archives/gnome-gui-list/2001-April/msg00118.html)
> 
> 
> Christian
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Galeon-devel mailing list
> Galeon-devel@...
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/galeon-devel
> 

-- 
Regards,
Matthew McClintock