Webware for Python

I can't seem to find any information on what is required to have a Webware
application hosted. Does this information exist anywhere? if not, what
hosting options are available and what is required? Assuming a host running
Linux/Apache/Python, what does one need to be able to run the Webware
AppServer? And can anyone recommend a good host? Thanks.

---
Patrick K. O'Brien
Orbtech.com - Your Source For Python Development Services
Phone: 314-963-3206

RE: [Webware-discuss] Hosting Options And Requirements From: Patrick K. O'Brien <pobrien@or...> - 2001-12-15 19:04 I did finally come across the following statement on http://webware.colorstudy.net/twiki/bin/view/Webware/WebwareVsCGI: "Not possible to run on a shared commercial host, or in an environment that doesn't allow long-running processes." Could someone please elaborate on this? Does this mean I would need to have a dedicated server? Or does it just mean that most shared hosts aren't running Webware? If I got a dedicated server (Linux/Apache/Python) and ran the Webware AppServer, would I be able to host multiple websites? --- Patrick K. O'Brien Orbtech.com - Your Source For Python Development Services Phone: 314-963-3206 > -----Original Message----- > From: webware-discuss-admin@... > [mailto:webware-discuss-admin@... Behalf Of Patrick > K. O'Brien > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 12:02 PM > To: Webware > Subject: [Webware-discuss] Hosting Options And Requirements > > > I can't seem to find any information on what is required to have a Webware > application hosted. Does this information exist anywhere? if not, what > hosting options are available and what is required? Assuming a > host running > Linux/Apache/Python, what does one need to be able to run the Webware > AppServer? And can anyone recommend a good host? Thanks. > > --- > Patrick K. O'Brien > Orbtech.com - Your Source For Python Development Services > Phone: 314-963-3206 > > > _______________________________________________ > Webware-discuss mailing list > Webware-discuss@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webware-discuss

Re: [Webware-discuss] Hosting Options And Requirements From: Ian Bicking <ianb@co...> - 2001-12-15 19:12 On Sat, 2001-12-15 at 12:02, Patrick K. O'Brien wrote: > I can't seem to find any information on what is required to have a Webware > application hosted. Does this information exist anywhere? if not, what > hosting options are available and what is required? Assuming a host running > Linux/Apache/Python, what does one need to be able to run the Webware > AppServer? And can anyone recommend a good host? Thanks. You need Python installed, though you can do that yourself if you want. The real issue is being able to have long-running processes. Most commercial hosts don't allow, or otherwise hinder long-running processes -- in Webware's case, the AppServer. Some hosts kill processes that run too long, so you'll want to ask them about that. You also want mod_rewrite installed, as that's fairly important for cleaning up the URL and if you wanted to serve the root page from Webware. You can control mod_rewrite from an .htaccess file, as long as it's installed. You'll be able to use the C-based CGI adapter, since you probably can't install mod_webkit. But that should be fine. That pretty much covers it. There isn't a list of hosts that support this. Most do, but then I imagine there's a healthy minority who probably would. If you find some, please post them to the list or put them on the Wiki, as I think other people would be interested. Some of the places that host Zope (but not necessarily as their primary business) may very well support Webware, as they are similar (from the host's perspective). Ian

RE: [Webware-discuss] Hosting Options And Requirements From: Ian Bicking <ianb@co...> - 2001-12-15 19:18 On Sat, 2001-12-15 at 13:06, Patrick K. O'Brien wrote: > I did finally come across the following statement on > http://webware.colorstudy.net/twiki/bin/view/Webware/WebwareVsCGI: > > "Not possible to run on a shared commercial host, or in an environment that > doesn't allow long-running processes." > > Could someone please elaborate on this? Does this mean I would need to have > a dedicated server? Or does it just mean that most shared hosts aren't > running Webware? If I got a dedicated server (Linux/Apache/Python) and ran > the Webware AppServer, would I be able to host multiple websites? I think I was too extreme in that statement. It should be "Not possible to run on most shared commercial hosts"... I'll change that. Most (probably just about all) hosts aren't running Webware, but you'd just install it yourself. You don't have to be root to install anything except mod_webkit (which you don't have to use) and maybe do some of the configuration for mod_snake or mod_python -- but you don't need to use those either. If you get a dedicated server, you can definitely run multiple websites, off the same AppServer, or multiple AppServers. ModRewriteRecipies on the wiki has a little about doing this with virtual hosts. There are hosts that allow you to get what looks like a dedicated server, but is actually shared among several people -- less power than a dedicated host, but all the flexibility and it's cheaper. > --- > Patrick K. O'Brien > Orbtech.com - Your Source For Python Development Services > Phone: 314-963-3206 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: webware-discuss-admin@... > > [mailto:webware-discuss-admin@... Behalf Of Patrick > > K. O'Brien > > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 12:02 PM > > To: Webware > > Subject: [Webware-discuss] Hosting Options And Requirements > > > > > > I can't seem to find any information on what is required to have a Webware > > application hosted. Does this information exist anywhere? if not, what > > hosting options are available and what is required? Assuming a > > host running > > Linux/Apache/Python, what does one need to be able to run the Webware > > AppServer? And can anyone recommend a good host? Thanks. > > > > --- > > Patrick K. O'Brien > > Orbtech.com - Your Source For Python Development Services > > Phone: 314-963-3206 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Webware-discuss mailing list > > Webware-discuss@... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webware-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Webware-discuss mailing list > Webware-discuss@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webware-discuss >

Re: [Webware-discuss] Hosting Options And Requirements From: Tim Payne <tpayne@ma...> - 2001-12-15 19:19 On Saturday, December 15, 2001, at 02:06 PM, Patrick K. O'Brien wrote: > Could someone please elaborate on this? Does this mean I would need to > have > a dedicated server? Or does it just mean that most shared hosts aren't > running Webware? If I got a dedicated server (Linux/Apache/Python) and > ran > the Webware AppServer, would I be able to host multiple websites? Webware requires that the AppServer stay up all the time. This is one major advantage it has over regular CGI, since it allows caching and other features. The problem is most regular webhosts will not allow you to run a process like this. Some will allow it for an extra fee, but you are limited in how much of the CPU you can take up. If you are running your own dedicated server, either at home, or through a co-location, etc, then you are free to take up as much of the CPU time as you want, and can run the AppServer. From there, you can use it with as many sites / virtual domains as you wanted, or as the processor could support. If you can't host it yourself, look for a host that will let you run processes. They will usually list things like irc bots, since those are fairly common. Or you can buy shell access from a company, and that will allow you a set number of processes. You could set up apache, the AppServer, and probably a few other small things for a reasonable monthly price.

Re: [Webware-discuss] Hosting Options And Requirements From: Tracy S. Ruggles <tracer@ax...> - 2001-12-15 20:09 on 01.12.15 1:21 PM, Ian Bicking at ianb@... wrote: > If you get a dedicated server, you can definitely run multiple websites, > off the same AppServer, or multiple AppServers. ModRewriteRecipies on > the wiki has a little about doing this with virtual hosts. There are > hosts that allow you to get what looks like a dedicated server, but is > actually shared among several people -- less power than a dedicated > host, but all the flexibility and it's cheaper. I have webware running on a VPS (virtual private server) being hosted at Verio. The VPS acts like it's its own server, but is being shared on one machine with several others. I'm running for different virtual hosts without problem through apache. I can install anything and everything I want to on the machine, but it's a little tricky because my /usr/local directory is really /usr/home/<myaccount>/usr/local and most install and build scripts get confused by it. It's expensive at $200-$250 a month but a whole lot cheaper than a dedicated server and/or a hosted machine. --Tracy P.S. I haven't officially release the webware version of our application but it should be coming soon... -- Tracy S. Ruggles => 512/858.2280 => tracer@... "Ignite your marketing with interactive precision." AxiomFire, Inc. => http://www.axiomfire.com

Re: [Webware-discuss] Hosting Options And Requirements From: Ian Bicking <ianb@co...> - 2001-12-15 20:22 On Sat, 2001-12-15 at 14:09, Tracy S. Ruggles wrote: > on 01.12.15 1:21 PM, Ian Bicking at ianb@... wrote: > > > If you get a dedicated server, you can definitely run multiple websites, > > off the same AppServer, or multiple AppServers. ModRewriteRecipies on > > the wiki has a little about doing this with virtual hosts. There are > > hosts that allow you to get what looks like a dedicated server, but is > > actually shared among several people -- less power than a dedicated > > host, but all the flexibility and it's cheaper. > > I have webware running on a VPS (virtual private server) being hosted at > Verio. The VPS acts like it's its own server, but is being shared on one > machine with several others. I'm running for different virtual hosts > without problem through apache. > > I can install anything and everything I want to on the machine, but it's a > little tricky because my /usr/local directory is really > /usr/home/<myaccount>/usr/local and most install and build scripts get > confused by it. It's expensive at $200-$250 a month but a whole lot cheaper > than a dedicated server and/or a hosted machine. I'm using SPS, and at $100 they are a bit cheaper than Verio, and I think more flexible -- there's really nothing you can do to tell it's not a dedicated machine, you get root access, you can bind low ports and install your own daemons. But their reliability isn't as good as I would like, and there's been some other things that have annoyed me. I'm not sure what Verio does, but I think a number of the Linux hosts actually run on VMWare, so there's one kernel running copies of VMWare that run copies of Linux that host the virtual server. I've read about some recent patches to the Linux kernel to allow it to do this natively -- i.e., one kernel that runs seperate virtual servers -- that would be really nice, as I think more companies might start this service and efficiency would be better (potentially scaling better to the low end as well). Ian

RE: [Webware-discuss] Hosting Options And Requirements From: Ben Parker <ben@th...> - 2001-12-16 01:42 Sorry to undercut you both: check out dedicated server hosting at SmartHosting for $99/month. It's a great deal, and so far their service has been solid. http://www.smarthosting.com Ben -----Original Message----- From: webware-discuss-admin@... [mailto:webware-discuss-admin@... Behalf Of Ian Bicking Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 3:26 PM To: Tracy S. Ruggles Cc: pobrien@...; webware discuss lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Webware-discuss] Hosting Options And Requirements On Sat, 2001-12-15 at 14:09, Tracy S. Ruggles wrote: > on 01.12.15 1:21 PM, Ian Bicking at ianb@... wrote: > > > If you get a dedicated server, you can definitely run multiple websites, > > off the same AppServer, or multiple AppServers. ModRewriteRecipies on > > the wiki has a little about doing this with virtual hosts. There are > > hosts that allow you to get what looks like a dedicated server, but is > > actually shared among several people -- less power than a dedicated > > host, but all the flexibility and it's cheaper. > > I have webware running on a VPS (virtual private server) being hosted at > Verio. The VPS acts like it's its own server, but is being shared on one > machine with several others. I'm running for different virtual hosts > without problem through apache. > > I can install anything and everything I want to on the machine, but it's a > little tricky because my /usr/local directory is really > /usr/home/<myaccount>/usr/local and most install and build scripts get > confused by it. It's expensive at $200-$250 a month but a whole lot cheaper > than a dedicated server and/or a hosted machine. I'm using SPS, and at $100 they are a bit cheaper than Verio, and I think more flexible -- there's really nothing you can do to tell it's not a dedicated machine, you get root access, you can bind low ports and install your own daemons. But their reliability isn't as good as I would like, and there's been some other things that have annoyed me. I'm not sure what Verio does, but I think a number of the Linux hosts actually run on VMWare, so there's one kernel running copies of VMWare that run copies of Linux that host the virtual server. I've read about some recent patches to the Linux kernel to allow it to do this natively -- i.e., one kernel that runs seperate virtual servers -- that would be really nice, as I think more companies might start this service and efficiency would be better (potentially scaling better to the low end as well). Ian _______________________________________________ Webware-discuss mailing list Webware-discuss@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webware-discuss

Re: [Webware-discuss] Hosting Options And Requirements From: Richard Gordon <richard@ri...> - 2001-12-16 23:01 At 2:25 PM -0600 12/15/01, Ian Bicking wrote: >I'm using SPS, and at $100 they are a bit cheaper than Verio, and I >think more flexible -- there's really nothing you can do to tell it's >not a dedicated machine, you get root access, you can bind low ports and >install your own daemons. But their reliability isn't as good as I >would like, and there's been some other things that have annoyed me. I recently got WebKit running on my virtual host at http://www.dreamhost.com and it works great. I don't have root, but can install pretty much whatever I like in my home directory, have access to gcc, etc. The good news is that I think that my Code Warrior plan is about $35 for new subscribers; the bad news is that they don't have much interest in installing mod_webkit after apparently having been talked into installing mod_perl at some point and watching resources get gobbled up. You also have to ask them to permit processes to be long running. They did not give me a hard time about this as far as python goes as I've been around for a while and they know me; the only condition was that if they thought resource usage was excessive, I'd either have to trim things down some or they couldn't continue to support this. They have always been reasonable in the past, pretty prompt about taking care of problems, etc., so I can recommend them as a good alternative for someone who doesn't want to throw a whole lot of money at hosting but still wants database access, ssh, java, cgi, and so on. One question- I played with WebKit.cgi and OneShot.cgi before then building wkcgi. I couldn't get the latter to execute without an extension, so I wound up renaming it to wk.cgi and it works fine, but did I miss a trick (e.g., is adding an extension always necessary)? This stuff runs on apache/linux and I don't have write privileges to httpd.conf anyway, but I don't recall there being a way to call cgi scripts without an extension that has been defined as cgi. Richard Gordon -------------------- Gordon Design Web Design/Database Development http://www.richardgordon.net

Re: [Webware-discuss] Hosting Options And Requirements From: Ian Bicking <ianb@co...> - 2001-12-17 00:51 On Sun, 2001-12-16 at 17:01, Richard Gordon wrote: > One question- I played with WebKit.cgi and OneShot.cgi before then > building wkcgi. I couldn't get the latter to execute without an > extension, so I wound up renaming it to wk.cgi and it works fine, but > did I miss a trick (e.g., is adding an extension always necessary)? > This stuff runs on apache/linux and I don't have write privileges to > httpd.conf anyway, but I don't recall there being a way to call cgi > scripts without an extension that has been defined as cgi. It depends on your Apache configuration. .cgi is probably most common, especially on shared hosts, but sometimes it won't work either, and the file has to be in cgi-bin (usually for security). I think it can be set so that any executable in cgi-bin will get called too. But yeah, naming it .cgi by default would be best. Ian

[Webware-discuss] CGI script extensions (was Hosting Options And Requirements) From: Stefan Schwarzer <stefan.schwarzer@tu...> - 2001-12-17 01:06 Hello On 16 Dec 2001, Ian Bicking wrote: > On Sun, 2001-12-16 at 17:01, Richard Gordon wrote: > > One question- I played with WebKit.cgi and OneShot.cgi before then > > building wkcgi. I couldn't get the latter to execute without an > > extension, so I wound up renaming it to wk.cgi and it works fine, but > > did I miss a trick (e.g., is adding an extension always necessary)? > > This stuff runs on apache/linux and I don't have write privileges to > > httpd.conf anyway, but I don't recall there being a way to call cgi > > scripts without an extension that has been defined as cgi. > > It depends on your Apache configuration. .cgi is probably most common, > especially on shared hosts, but sometimes it won't work either, and the > file has to be in cgi-bin (usually for security). I think it can be set > so that any executable in cgi-bin will get called too. But yeah, naming > it .cgi by default would be best. AFAIR you have to use the cgi extension if an else ordinary directory is marked with +ExecCGI. If you have a file in a ScriptAlias directory it can have any extension to be executable. (Don't take my word for it though ;-) ) Stefan

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