Inkscape

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:

> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 19:27:25 +0300
> From: Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoudine@...>
> To: Inkscape ML <inkscape-devel@...>
> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign
>
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 16:20:55 +0000 (GMT), Alan Horkan
> <horkana@...> wrote:
>
> > > Before working on Object manager I decided to give a quick look at
> > > "Export bitmap" palette.
> >
> > I'll admit up front that I don't have a better answer but I think you are
> > going about this problem the wrong way and I ask you to step back and
> > analyse the problem rather than the palette layout specifically.
>
> Well, we have discussed this before and I was pointed to the fact that we need
>
> 1. Save as function.
> 2. A GIMP-like Export function.
> 3. An export bitmap palette (Designer C from Ted's report).
>
> I have considered this discussion closed. Looks like I was wrong :)

I'm probably looking at this from a different perspective and not
properly understanding what others have in mind.

I'm not clear on the distinction between 1 and 2 and I don't see how 3
(the Palette) will have room to accomodate the complexity and various
options people seem to want.

Sincerely

Alan Horkan

Free SVG Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org
Dia is for Diagrams  http://gnome.org/projects/dia/
Abiword is Awesome http://abisource.com

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: MenTaLguY <mental@ry...> - 2005-01-13 18:51 On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > For that I need to know what is faster -- to select one of available > formats in a combobox, or to type three letters after the dot in the > filename to let Inscape automagically figure out, what export > algorithm to use. Users are going to expect both. If you have to pick one, the combo box is probably more important. -mental

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: <fretfind@fr...> - 2005-01-13 19:05 Alan Horkan wrote: > I believe the answer is that we need a fully fledged tool that makes it easier to batch export files. (Save for Web in Adobe photoshop being the > closest analogy I can think of but it isn't exactly a batch tool.) The other day I was remembering the batch export discussion and I=20 wondered how it was going to turn out. I'm neither developer nor designer so I'm sure you guys have better ideas coming. I though the exports could be stored in the SVG document like guides.=20 There could be two export object types: selections and ranges. Ranges=20 would be similar to an SVG rectangle, the bounding rectangle would be=20 stored. Perhaps visual range cues would be possible too. the ids of=20 objects to export would be stored for selections. There should probably=20 be a way make the current selection in the editor an export selection an= d make an export selection the current selection in the document. Selectio= n editing could be accomplished like that. I picture a dialog witha list o= f exports on the left and the standard export palette for the selection on the right. For each selection there could be a checkbox for export on save and a place to configure filename, file type and path. Is that similar to what others had pictured? Aaron Spike

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: Ted Gould <ted@go...> - 2005-01-14 07:17 Attachments: Message as HTML      On Thu, 2005-01-13 at 18:40 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:26:59 -0700, Ted Gould <ted@...> wrote: > > One thing that you should probably make room for (but isn't implemented > > yet) is choosing a format for the save (so, PNG, JPEG, TIFF, etc.) I'm > > thinking perhaps a drop down selector above the filename? >=20 > For that I need to know what is faster -- to select one of available > formats in a combobox, or to type three letters after the dot in the > filename to let Inscape automagically figure out, what export > algorithm to use. >=20 > Another "little" thingie is that exporting will require defining some > settings like compress ration, use of LZW compression algorithm (for > TIFF) etc. How a user would like to reach them? I'm not using this > palette all the time, so I would like to listen to people, who have > other experience. Use cases, please :) I prefer to have the combo box because I hate requiring file extensions for anything. I think that they are an evil hack, but I understand the need to support them. Currently the life cycle for extensions is load->preferences->execute (and unload some time later). From the programming perspective I think using the same preference life cycle would be nice and simple. This would mean that another window would pop up when a format that requires it. I don't know that this is the most eloquent, but it is certainly the easiest to program. --Ted

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: Nicu Buculei <nicu@ap...> - 2005-01-14 07:39 Ted Gould wrote: > On Thu, 2005-01-13 at 18:40 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: >>For that I need to know what is faster -- to select one of available >>formats in a combobox, or to type three letters after the dot in the >>filename to let Inscape automagically figure out, what export >>algorithm to use. > > I prefer to have the combo box because I hate requiring file extensions > for anything. I think that they are an evil hack, but I understand the > need to support them. the combo box is useful because a simple user is not expected to know which is the list of all supported formats for export and in the absence of this list has to guess in order to type the extension name. for the advanced user, typing may be faster, so both options should be present. -- nicu

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoudine@gm...> - 2005-01-14 20:30 On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 09:46:06 +0200, Nicu Buculei <nicu@...> wrote: > Ted Gould wrote: > > On Thu, 2005-01-13 at 18:40 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > >>For that I need to know what is faster -- to select one of available > >>formats in a combobox, or to type three letters after the dot in the > >>filename to let Inscape automagically figure out, what export > >>algorithm to use. > > > > I prefer to have the combo box because I hate requiring file extensions > > for anything. I think that they are an evil hack, but I understand the > > need to support them. > > the combo box is useful because a simple user is not expected to know > which is the list of all supported formats for export and in the absence > of this list has to guess in order to type the extension name. > for the advanced user, typing may be faster, so both options should be > present. Before I start doing discussed things like - get rid of bytes counting label - add combo for file format - add hideable preview - HIGifize I'd like to know, whether I should keep in mind batch export. I haven't found any RFE neither at SF that has "batch" in summary, nor in Wiki. Judging by my own experience using usual guides for slicing is not very nice, and it's not really awaited by people with Adobe or any similar background. Again, my experience maydiffer from yours. Alexandre

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoudine@gm...> - 2005-01-14 20:35 On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 18:15:44 +0000 (GMT), Alan Horkan <horkana@...> wrote: > I'm probably looking at this from a different perspective and not > properly understanding what others have in mind. > > I'm not clear on the distinction between 1 and 2 and I don't see how 3 > (the Palette) will have room to accomodate the complexity and various > options people seem to want. Alan, I'm not in a rush really. If I want to do something, I want to do it precisely, which is why I've been asking for use cases. If you're planning to Export to bitmap a different way, please find some time to sit down, think about this function and describe the procedure, or describe it the way you do it in some other vector graphics editor. This would be really nice and most helpful ;) Alexandre

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: bulia byak <buliabyak@gm...> - 2005-01-16 18:58 On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 12:01:43 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoudine@...> wrote: > http://techwriter.nm.ru/mockups/mockup06.png (vertical orientation) > http://techwriter.nm.ru/mockups/mockup07.png (horizontal orientation) Thanks. The difference with the current one is mostly cosmetic (except for the units thing discussed below), so OK with me if someone wants to implement it. > 2. I've removed units switcher, because it seems to make no sense as > we already have one units switcher in document properties which works > everywhere. However it is present on one of first mockups > (http://techwriter.nm.ru/mockups/mockup03.png). If you remove it, you need to at least display the units it uses somewhere. And if you display it, why not allow changing it? I agree it is slightly redundant, but removing it does not appeal to me either. > 3. I've placed a output file size counter label on the form, because > it would be a nifty feature for those who does web design in Inkscape > --- they always want to know how large the file is :) Besides > otherwise there will be either empty space or a too large "Export" > button. That's a good idea. If only I knew how to calculate that :)

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoudine@gm...> - 2005-01-17 11:48 On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 14:58:48 -0400, bulia byak <buliabyak@...> wrote: > > 2. I've removed units switcher, because it seems to make no sense as > > we already have one units switcher in document properties which works > > everywhere. However it is present on one of first mockups > > (http://techwriter.nm.ru/mockups/mockup03.png ). > > If you remove it, you need to at least display the units it uses > somewhere. And if you display it, why not allow changing it? I agree > it is slightly redundant, but removing it does not appeal to me > either. Don't know if GtkSpinbox allows prefix/suffix like QtSpinbox does (I didn't check API). If yes, a suffix (pt|px|mm) could be added. But I'm fine about bringing back switching combobox. I'm just waiting for use casesm but it looks like this is not the most appropriate list for them. I think I should go to *-users@ list. Alexandre

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: bulia byak <buliabyak@gm...> - 2005-01-17 18:40 One more thing I don't like about your drafts: the drop-down for selection/page/drawing/custom. Compared to radio buttons, it has these problems: - I don't see all the choices at once - to select, I need to click+drag, not just click as before These are small things, but I don't see any advantage to the drop-down that would justify these minor inconveniences.

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: Bryce Harrington <bryce@br...> - 2005-01-19 18:29 On Fri, 14 Jan 2005, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 09:46:06 +0200, Nicu Buculei <nicu@...> wrote: > > Ted Gould wrote: > > > On Thu, 2005-01-13 at 18:40 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > > >>For that I need to know what is faster -- to select one of available > > >>formats in a combobox, or to type three letters after the dot in the > > >>filename to let Inscape automagically figure out, what export > > >>algorithm to use. > > > > > > I prefer to have the combo box because I hate requiring file extensions > > > for anything. I think that they are an evil hack, but I understand the > > > need to support them. > > > > the combo box is useful because a simple user is not expected to know > > which is the list of all supported formats for export and in the absence > > of this list has to guess in order to type the extension name. > > for the advanced user, typing may be faster, so both options should be > > present. > > Before I start doing discussed things like > > - get rid of bytes counting label > - add combo for file format > - add hideable preview > - HIGifize > > I'd like to know, whether I should keep in mind batch export. I > haven't found any RFE neither at SF that has "batch" in summary, nor > in Wiki. > Alexandre Did you get a sufficiently solid answer to this? Bryce

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoudine@gm...> - 2005-01-19 18:50 On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:29:50 -0800 (PST), Bryce Harrington > > I'd like to know, whether I should keep in mind batch export. I > > haven't found any RFE neither at SF that has "batch" in summary, nor > > in Wiki. > > Alexandre > > Did you get a sufficiently solid answer to this? I'm afraid I haven't. I'd like to get a better idea what people understand under "batch export" and how it should work. Well, time to go to users list, I guess. Alexandre

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoudine@gm...> - 2005-01-19 18:55 On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:40:20 -0400, bulia byak <buliabyak@...> wrote: > One more thing I don't like about your drafts: the drop-down for > selection/page/drawing/custom. Compared to radio buttons, it has these > problems: > > - I don't see all the choices at once > > - to select, I need to click+drag, not just click as before > > These are small things, but I don't see any advantage to the drop-down > that would justify these minor inconveniences. The very first mockup I did had 4 icons for all/page/selection/special.I didn't like the way it looked. But I see a point in decreasing amount of clicks. As for "seeing all choices", the whole nature of comboboxes is in giving variants :) Alexandre

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: Bryce Harrington <bryce@br...> - 2005-01-19 18:59 On Wed, 19 Jan 2005, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:29:50 -0800 (PST), Bryce Harrington > > > > I'd like to know, whether I should keep in mind batch export. I > > > haven't found any RFE neither at SF that has "batch" in summary, nor > > > in Wiki. > > > Alexandre > > > > Did you get a sufficiently solid answer to this? > > I'm afraid I haven't. I'd like to get a better idea what people > understand under "batch export" and how it should work. Well, time to > go to users list, I guess. Good idea. I've not needed to do batch exports from within Inkscape so don't have a good idea of how this would be used. A few times I've needed to do a lot of svg2png conversion, but I used Inkscape from the commandline to do it. Bryce

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: bulia byak <buliabyak@gm...> - 2005-01-19 20:06 On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:59:44 -0800 (PST), Bryce Harrington <bryce@...> wrote: > Good idea. I've not needed to do batch exports from within Inkscape so > don't have a good idea of how this would be used. A few times I've > needed to do a lot of svg2png conversion, but I used Inkscape from the > commandline to do it. So did I. Perhaps a GUI facility would be nice to have too, but shell scripts are pretty convenient. You just need to list the ids of the areas you want to export, as explained in the slicing tip I added here: http://inkscape.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TricksAndTips

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: Alan Horkan <horkana@ma...> - 2005-01-19 22:25 On Wed, 19 Jan 2005, bulia byak wrote: > Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 16:06:05 -0400 > From: bulia byak <buliabyak@...> > To: Bryce Harrington <bryce@...> > Cc: Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoudine@...>, > Inkscape ML <inkscape-devel@...> > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign > > On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:59:44 -0800 (PST), Bryce Harrington > <bryce@...> wrote: > > Good idea. I've not needed to do batch exports from within Inkscape so > > don't have a good idea of how this would be used. A few times I've > > needed to do a lot of svg2png conversion, but I used Inkscape from the > > commandline to do it. > > So did I. Perhaps a GUI facility would be nice to have too, I used to be terrified by the command line. Nowadays if a task is tedious enough I'll bit the bullet and try and script it but I am (in theory at least) a computer programmer. I wouldn't expect an ordinary user, or the average artist to want to know about the command line. I briefly thought about the problem but I haven't had the insight or time to come up with a good use case and describe what I think is needed for Alex, sorry. I suppose at a minimum users would want a GUI for exporting each layer as a seperate image without having to go through one at a time. > but shell scripts are pretty convenient. You just need to list the ids > of the areas you want to export, as explained in the slicing tip I added > here: > > http://inkscape.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TricksAndTips - Alan

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoudine@gm...> - 2005-01-20 14:58 On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 16:06:05 -0400, bulia byak <buliabyak@...> wrote: > On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:59:44 -0800 (PST), Bryce Harrington > <bryce@...> wrote: > > Good idea. I've not needed to do batch exports from within Inkscape so > > don't have a good idea of how this would be used. A few times I've > > needed to do a lot of svg2png conversion, but I used Inkscape from the > > commandline to do it. > > So did I. Perhaps a GUI facility would be nice to have too, but shell > scripts are pretty convenient. You just need to list the ids of the > areas you want to export, as explained in the slicing tip I added > here: > > http://inkscape.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TricksAndTips One word: Windows Give me an easy installable shell for Windows which will be as good as bash/zsh is, and I will ask no questions :) For now using standard WIndows shell is pain. Alexandre

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: Kees Cook <inkscape@ou...> - 2005-01-20 15:58 On Thu, Jan 20, 2005 at 05:58:14PM +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > One word: Windows > > Give me an easy installable shell for Windows which will be as good as > bash/zsh is, and I will ask no questions :) For now using standard > WIndows shell is pain. cygwin.com pretty easy. :) -- Kees Cook @outflux.net

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoudine@gm...> - 2005-01-20 16:10 On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 07:58:45 -0800, Kees Cook <inkscape@...> wrote: > On Thu, Jan 20, 2005 at 05:58:14PM +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > > One word: Windows > > > > Give me an easy installable shell for Windows which will be as good as > > bash/zsh is, and I will ask no questions :) For now using standard > > WIndows shell is pain. > > cygwin.com > > pretty easy. :) Not a brilliant idea, sorry :) 1. Users need to figure out what packages they need and then install then (downloading everything 'live'). 2. Cygwin has serious i18n issues that noone wishes to solve. Alexandre

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: <mrchapp@gm...> - 2005-01-20 16:14 Hello. On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 07:58:45 -0800, Kees Cook <inkscape@...> wrote: > On Thu, Jan 20, 2005 at 05:58:14PM +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > > One word: Windows > > Give me an easy installable shell for Windows which will be as good as > > bash/zsh is, and I will ask no questions :) For now using standard > > WIndows shell is pain. >=20 > cygwin.com > pretty easy. :) Well, I wouldn't call Cygwin neither pretty nor easy. :) And for my daily dose of bash, I use Colinux, which is definitely too much for this case. Greetings! Daniel D=EDaz yosoy@...

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: Kees Cook <inkscape@ou...> - 2005-01-20 16:25 On Thu, Jan 20, 2005 at 07:10:06PM +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > Not a brilliant idea, sorry :) > > 1. Users need to figure out what packages they need and then install > then (downloading everything 'live'). Well, it does install bash by default, but yes, I wasn't following the thread too closely, I thought you meant for yourself, rather than "users". :) > 2. Cygwin has serious i18n issues that noone wishes to solve. Ah, didn't know about the i18n issues. Nevermind! :) no shell for windows! :) -- Kees Cook @outflux.net

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: Bob Jamison <rjamison@ti...> - 2005-01-20 16:35 Kees Cook wrote: >Ah, didn't know about the i18n issues. > >Nevermind! :) no shell for windows! :) > > > There is another alternative. In the experimental libs, we have two very nice interpreters. How about, instead of executing Perl in a shell, or executing Python in a shell, we let Perl or Python -be- the shell? Would save a lot of pain. Bob

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: Jon A. Cruz <jon@jo...> - 2005-01-20 16:51 Bob Jamison wrote: > There is another alternative. In the experimental > libs, we have two very nice interpreters. How about, > instead of executing Perl in a shell, or executing Python > in a shell, we let Perl or Python -be- the shell? > Would save a lot of pain. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeekkkkkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!! /me ph43z the dependency and support issues alone... not to mention some others...

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: John Cliff <simarilius@ya...> - 2005-01-20 17:46 is http://mingw.org/msys.shtml what your after? --- Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoudine@...> wrote: > On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 07:58:45 -0800, Kees Cook <inkscape@...> > wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 20, 2005 at 05:58:14PM +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine > wrote: > > > One word: Windows > > > > > > Give me an easy installable shell for Windows which will be as > good as > > > bash/zsh is, and I will ask no questions :) For now using > standard > > > WIndows shell is pain. > > > > cygwin.com > > > > pretty easy. :) > > Not a brilliant idea, sorry :) > > 1. Users need to figure out what packages they need and then install > then (downloading everything 'live'). > 2. Cygwin has serious i18n issues that noone wishes to solve. > > Alexandre > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IntelliVIEW -- Interactive > Reporting > Tool for open source databases. Create drag-&-drop reports. Save time > by over 75%! Publish reports on the web. Export to DOC, XLS, RTF, > etc. > Download a FREE copy at http://www.intelliview.com/go/osdn_nl > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

Re: [Inkscape-devel] export bitmap palette redesign From: Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoudine@gm...> - 2005-01-20 17:55 On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 09:46:48 -0800 (PST), John Cliff <simarilius@...> wrote: > is http://mingw.org/msys.shtml what your after? It it supposed to solve a problem with using Inkscape from Windows shell in batch mode? Alexandre

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