Hi Phillip,
Yes, that was my intention. Proven contributors would not need reviews
unless they wanted them.
Paul
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Phillip Lord [mailto:phillip.lord@...]
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 11:23 AM
> To: Paul Kinnucan
> Cc: landes@...; Carlos Konstanski; Len Trigg; jdee-
> devel@...
> Subject: Re: My role in the JDEE project
>=20
>=20
> It's a question of whether it needs to be formal or not, is all.
>=20
> Starting off with a degree of code review makes sense, for new
> contributors.
> It's not necessary all the time, though. Once a contributor has
submitted
> a
> number of successful patches, then they probably don't need reviewing
any
> more. Errors will be picked up by people using things.
>=20
> The only real concern is that it takes too much effort. At the current
> time,
> the quality of JDE is slipping simply because the code base is
rusting.
>=20
> Phil
>=20
>=20
> >>>>> "PK" =3D=3D Paul Kinnucan <Paul.Kinnucan@...> writes:
>=20
> PK> Contributing to the JDEE might be fun for the occasional
contributor
> who
> PK> doesn't have to review the changes and update the doc. I've been
> PK> performing those functions all along. I've reviewed every patch
to
> the
> PK> JDEE and in many cases improved them significantly from what was
> PK> submitted to me. I've also provided the doc for contributed
> features.
> PK> I'm concerned that if I step out of the loop, quality will slip.
How
> can
> PK> that be avoided?
>=20
> PK> Paul Kinnucan
>=20
> >> -----Original Message----- From: Paul Landes
> [mailto:landes@...]
> >> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 10:55 PM To: Paul Kinnucan Cc:
> >> Phillip.Lord@...; Carlos Konstanski; Len Trigg; jdee-
> >> devel@... Subject: RE: My role in the JDEE project
> >>
> >> The process you describe here is very close to what we do at Bank
of
> >> America and its a lot of process and ceremony. Not that it is all
> bad,
> >> but as you know, release meetings, code reviews, etc. takes a lot
of
> >> time. For example, can you elaborate on what you mean by "get
them
> >> reviewed?" This seems like a lot of everyone's time including
yours,
> >> particularly when you add on time for the release meetings you're
> talking
> >> about.
> >>
> >> Frankly, what you describe here is what I do all day and I think
it
> takes
> >> a lot of the fun out of it. Writing JDEE code, at least what I've
> done
> >> with the patches I've submitted, has been more closer to other
open
> >> source projects I've contributed in the way it is more organic
and
> >> enjoyable.
> >>
> >> I think we simply need one or two people with access to commit
> patches
> >> and do a little documentation and releases for the short term
until
> the
> >> project gets back the momentum it had. Only after this should we
> consider
> >> feature enhancements etc.
> >>
> >> This is all my opinion, but seems to be the kind of thing that
seems
> >> prudent based on previous experience.
> >>
> >>
> >> Paul Kinnucan writes:
> >> > Paul,
> >> >
> >> > Administering the JDEE project is not time-consuming. What is
> >> > time-consuming is making and submitting code changes, updating
the
> PK> doc,
> >> > and tech support. Recently I have not had the time to do a lot
of
> >> > coding, doc'ing, and tech supporting of the JDEE. As a result,
the
> PK> JDEE
> >> > has come to a standstill. That is why there have been no
releases
> in
> >> > the last two years. I am hoping that the superior and widely
used
> >> > support tools afforded by SourceForge, e.g., Subversion, wiki
> pages,
> >> > bug trackers', etc.,
> PK> will
> >> > encourage others to pitch in with the work of maintaining,
> PK> enhancing,
> >> > and releasing the JDEE. That will allow me to focus on
> PK> administering
> >> and
> >> > leading the JDEE, for which I believe I will have adequate
time.
> >> >
> >> > What I propose is that you and other team members look at the
bug,
> >> > enhancement, and patch trackers, pick off items from them,
> PK> implement
> >> > them in your sandboxes, get them reviewed, commit them to the
> >> > repository, and update the doc for user-visible changes. When a
> >> critical
> >> > mass of changes to the repository has been made, we'll make the
> PK> next
> >> > release. What the critical mass is can be determined by
consensus
> PK> among
> >> > the team members. How quickly that mass is reached will depend
on
> PK> how
> >> > much time team members spend on coding and doc'ing. If most of
the
> >> > coding and doc'ing is left up to me, it won't come that
quickly.
> >> >
> >> > One thing we might do is have a release meeting (via the
> PK> developer's
> >> > mailing list) in which we decide what the content of the
release
> PK> will
> >> be
> >> > and the target date. The content would be determined by
reviewing
> PK> the
> >> > trackers and choosing the enhancements and bug fixes that we
> PK> determine
> >> > to be most critical to the release. Each team member can submit
a
> PK> list
> >> > of the tracker items that they would like to see implemented
and
> >> ideally
> >> > would commit themselves to implement
> >> >
> >> > We could designate a release leader on a rotating basis. The
> PK> release
> >> > leader would be responsible for tracking progress, and ensuring
> PK> that
> >> all
> >> > release targets have been met, and building the release zip
files
> PK> and
> >> > posting them on the JDEE web site. BTW, the JDEE uses make to
build
> PK> the
> >> > release zip files. One make command builds both the .zip and
> PK> tar.gzip
> >> > versions of the distribution. So building the distribution is a
> PK> snap.
> >> >
> >> > These are just some thoughts.
> >> >
> >> > I am open to any and all suggestions for how to run the JDEE
> PK> project.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Paul K.
> >> >
> >> > > -----Original Message----- From: Paul Landes
> >> > > [mailto:landes@...] Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008
11:24 AM
> To:
> >> > > Paul Kinnucan Cc: Phillip.Lord@...; Carlos
> Konstanski;
> >> > > Len Trigg Subject: My role in the JDEE project
> >> > >
> >> > > I realize there are some time saving tools at sourceforge,
but
> PK> how
> >> > > does that change anything?
> >> > >
> >> > > Maybe I don't understand what you mean to do in your new
role.
> PK> Do
> >> > > want those with commit access to make the patches and then
wait
> PK> for
> >> > > your authorization to put out a release? If you don't have
any
> PK> more
> >> > > time now than you did before, how is the project going
continue
> PK> if
> >> all
> >> > > decisions, assignments, releases (and all the others you
> PK> mentioned)
> >> > > have to be funneled through you? Will you really have time
for
> PK> all
> >> of
> >> > > this?
> >> > >
> >> > > I'm really not trying to be difficult here, but I just don't
see
> PK> how
> >> > > this model will work without your time investment.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Paul Kinnucan writes:
> >> > > > Hi Paul,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > After experiencing first-hand SourceForge's great project
> >> > management
> >> > > > tools, I have reconsidered my decision to step down from
> >> leadership
> >> > of
> >> > > > the JDEE project. For the time being, I plan to continue
in my
> >> role
> >> > as
> >> > > > the project's "benevolent dictator," i.e., continue to
have
> PK> final
> >> > > > authority on features, releases, software architecture,
coding
> >> > > > standards, developer assignments, etc. I would hope to
hand
> PK> off
> >> > > > responsibility for many of these areas to other developers
> PK> with
> >> > > > demonstrated commitment to the JDEE project. For example,
I
> PK> would
> >> > be
> >> > > > perfectly content to hand over responsibility for making
> PK> releases,
> >> > > > development assignments, etc., to other project members
who
> PK> are
> >> > willing
> >> > > > and able to take on these responsibilities.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > If you still want to join the project as a developer, let
me
> PK> know
> >> > and I
> >> > > > will add you to the membership list.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Regards,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Paul Kinnucan
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Paul Landes
> >> > > > > [mailto:landes@...] Sent: Thursday, December 20,
2007
> 8:23
> >> > > > > PM To: Paul Kinnucan Subject: RE: Moving to sourceforge
Was:
> Re:
> >> > > > jde-import-kill-extra-imports
> >> > > > > not working
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Hi Paul,
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > My sourceforge.net account is "zenos000".
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Have you decided what your involvement will be in the
> PK> project
> >> > going
> >> > > > > forward. Who's going to run the project from now on.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I'd like to know how you intend on transitioning things
> PK> before I
> >> > > > > commit to anything. I hope you understand.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Thanks.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Paul Kinnucan writes:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Hi Carlos, Paul, and Philip,
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Would you like to join the SourceForge JDEE project
as a
> >> > > developer?
> >> > > > In
> >> > > > > > this role, you would be able to commit changes to the
> PK> JDEE
> >> CVS
> >> > > > source
> >> > > > > > repository and update the documentation. If you would
> PK> like to
> >> > > > become a
> >> > > > > > JDEE developer, you should create a SourceForge
account
> PK> for
> >> > > > yourself,
> >> > > > > if
> >> > > > > > you have not already done so, and send my your
> PK> SourceForge
> >> > account
> >> > > > > name.
> >> > > > > > I will then add you to the list of JDEE developers.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Regards,
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Paul K.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Len Trigg
> >> > > > > > > [mailto:len@...] Sent: Monday, December
17,
> >> > > > > > > 2007 12:36 PM To: Paul Kinnucan Cc: Carlos
Konstanski
> >> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Moving to sourceforge Was: Re:
> >> > > > > > jde-import-kill-extra-imports
> >> > > > > > > not working
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Paul,
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > I see that you have got as far as creating an
initial
> >> > project on
> >> > > > > > > sourceforge for jdee. Can you assign joint project
> PK> admin
> >> > > > permissions
> >> > > > > > > to a few of us so that we can begin some of the
work?
> PK> Eg
> >> > moving
> >> > > > docs,
> >> > > > > > > web pages, setting up new mailing lists, is
something
> PK> we
> >> > could
> >> > > be
> >> > > > > > > starting on now. Shifting the source repo is
probably
> >> better
> >> > > done
> >> > > > by
> >> > > > > > > you.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > I suggest myself, Carlos, Paul Landes, and Phil
Lord.
> PK> My
> >> > > > sourceforge
> >> > > > > > > account name is lenbok.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Cheers, Len
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > On 18/12/2007, at 3:07 AM, "Paul Kinnucan"
> >> > > > > > > <Paul.Kinnucan@...> wrote:
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Hi,
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > I plan to move the JDEE to SourceForge as soon as
> >> > possible. I
> >> > > > had
> >> > > > > > > > hoped to do this earlier but have not been able
to do
> so
> >> because
> >> > of
> >> > > a
> >> > > > > host
> >> > > > > > > > of job- and family-related issues as well as the
> PK> holidays.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Please be patient.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Paul
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- From: Carlos
Konstanski
> >> > > > [mailto:ckonstanski@...]
> >> > > > > > > >> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:58 PM To: Len
> Trigg
> >> > > > > > > >> Cc: Carlos Konstanski; Paul Kinnucan;
jde@...
> >> > > > > > > >> Subject: Re: Moving to sourceforge Was: Re:
> >> > > > > > > > jde-import-kill-extra-imports
> >> > > > > > > >> not working
> >> > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > >> OK, I get it, you want someone to move JDEE now.
I
> PK> did
> >> > > > express my
> >> > > > > > > >> willingness to do the dirty work of moving JDEE.
> PK> Paul
> >> > > > Kinnucan
> >> > > > > > > >> responded (in this very thread) by saying that
it
> PK> would
> >> > be
> >> > > > best if
> >> > > > > > he
> >> > > > > > > >> performed the task. That's where we stand now.
We
> PK> wait
> >> > > until
> >> > > > > Paul
> >> > > > > > > >> gets an opportunity to do the migration, and
then we
> >> > carry on
> >> > > > with
> >> > > > > > > >> patch-applying and such in the new repository.
If
> PK> Paul
> >> > were
> >> > > > to
> >> > > > > ask
> >> > > > > > > >> for someone else to do the work, Paul Landes and
I
> PK> would
> >> > both
> >> > > > be
> >> > > > > > > >> available. Out of respect for Paul Kinnucan's
great
> >> > > > contribution,
> >> > > > > > I
> >> > > > > > > >> think we should let him call the shots re: the
> PK> migration
> >> > of
> >> > > > his
> >> > > > > > code.
> >> > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > >> Carlos Konstanski
> >> > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > >> At Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:57:58 +1300,
> >> > > > > > > >> Len Trigg wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > >>> Hi Carlos,
> >> > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > >>> You seemed ready, willing, and able to move
JDEE to
> >> > > > sourceforge.
> >> > > > > > > > Can
> >> > > > > > > >>> you just go ahead and do it please? It seems
that
> PK> if
> >> we
> >> > > > continue
> >> > > > > > to
> >> > > > > > > >>> wait for Paul, we could be waiting
indefinitely.
> PK> If
> >> > Paul
> >> > > > finds
> >> > > > > > time
> >> > > > > > > >>> to help in the process that's OK, but we should
not
> >> > further
> >> > > > delay
> >> > > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > >>> move.
> >> > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > >>> Cheers, Len.
> >> > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > >>> At Mon, 5 Nov 2007 09:47:15 -0500,
> >> > > > > > > >>> Paul Kinnucan wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>> Hi Carlos,
> >> > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>> I think it would be best if I moved the JDEE
> PK> myself to
> >> > > > > > > > Sourceforge. I
> >> > > > > > > >>>> will have this completed by next weekend.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>> Paul
> >> > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Carlos
> Konstanski
> >> > > > [mailto:ckonstanski@...]
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 5:06 PM To:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> jde@... Subject: Re:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> jde-import-kill-extra-imports not
> >> working
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> At Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:58:25 +0000,
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> Phillip Lord wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> I would move to sourceforge or gna.org. This
is
> >> > > > > > > > straightforward
> >> > > > > > > >>>> enough.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> Then
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> pull the current cvs into a svn as quite a
lot
> PK> more
> >> > > people
> >> > > > are
> >> > > > > > > >> using
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> this
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> nowadays (it's not essential though).
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> The jobs that need doing are:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> 1) checking patches for people without
svn/cvs
> >> > access.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> 2) adding people to svn/cvs where
appropriate
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> 3) organising a release schedule. In
practice,
> PK> this
> >> > means
> >> > > > > > > > doing a
> >> > > > > > > >>>> new
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> release
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> when ever enough patches have come in.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> 4) Updating the website with new tarballs,
new
> PK> zips.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> As an added extra:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> 5) add a top level makefile to build
packages
> PK> for
> >> the
> >> > > > various
> >> > > > > > > >>>> linuxes --
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> rpm,
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> gentoo and the like. Or add autoconf
support
> PK> which
> >> > > > should
> >> > > > > > > > bring
> >> > > > > > > >>>> the
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> former
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> nearly for free I think. I'm not a real
> PK> package
> >> > expert.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> Once the release mechanism is fixed, then
use
> PK> can be
> >> > made
> >> > > > of
> >> > > > > > > >>>> existing
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> patches. This would at least keep JDE
ticking
> PK> over.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> I'm afraid I am not volunteering here; I
rarely
> PK> code
> >> > Java
> >> > > > > > > > these
> >> > > > > > > >>>> days, so
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> I can
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> live without. But it would be nice to have
the
> >> option
> >> > to
> >> > > > use
> >> > > > > > > > Emacs
> >> > > > > > > >>>> for
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> those
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> occasions that I do.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> Phil
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> OK, the weekend is here and I am ready to do
this
> >> > thing.
> >> > > > First
> >> > > > > > > > of
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> all, do we have buyoff from the
author/current
> >> > maintainer
> >> > > > to
> >> > > > > > > > move
> >> > > > > > > >> JDEE
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> to sourceforge? I hereby officially ask the
> >> > individual(s)
> >> > > > in
> >> > > > > > > > charge
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> if it's all right for me to set up a JDEE
> PK> sourceforge
> >> > > > project
> >> > > > > > > > and
> >> > > > > > > >> move
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> the CVS repository there, in accordance with
the
> >> > promises
> >> > > I
> >> > > > > made
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> earlier in this thread.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > -- Paul Landes landes@...
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > -- Paul Landes landes@...
> >>
> >>
> >> -- Paul Landes landes@...
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --
> Phillip Lord, Phone: +44 (0) 191 222 7827
> Lecturer in Bioinformatics, Email:
> phillip.lord@...
> School of Computing Science,
> http://homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/phillip.lord
> Claremont Tower Room 909, skype: russet_apples
> Newcastle University,
> NE1 7RU
|