A lot of things seem possible at the moment, but with a lot of difficulty.
For example, sure, you can change the sort order for specific individuals.
But if you're starting with a large imported database, that's quite an
I also tried changing the "Group as" value for one individual, from "Bolt"
to "Boldt". I was pleasantly surprised to be given the option to change the
"Group as" for other people named "Bolt". However, I was disappointed to
see the Bolt's ordered after the Boldt's, and not within as expected. Is
that a bug? Or working as designed? If the latter, then what's the point of
Anyways, it would be nice to see the same kind of option for the "Sort as"
value. That is, if I change the "Sort as" for someone named "van de Bunt",
it would be nice to be given the option to change it for all van de Bunt's.
For me there are two issues: 1) handling of prefixes, and 2) ease of
dealing with patronymics. Frankly, although I prefer the Dutch convention,
I can live with the Flemish standard.
But I see problems with patronymics. Currently, I'm still working on
getting my data in shape. But I can see potential problems once I get back
to real research. For example, let's say I have a new individal called
"Melis Jansen" and I want to see if I already have his father in my
database. I can't just search for the surname "Jansen" - I also need to
search for the given name "Jan". I suppose I could just search based on
"Name contains", but that will give me more than what I want. So one
possible improvement that would help would be more fine-grained search
options on the "People" view, such as "Given name contains" and "Surname
On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 12:45 PM, Benny Malengier <benny.malengier@...
> 2013/3/21 Hans Boldt <hans@...>
>> Thanks, Benny!
>> However, I have ~450 names with prefixes. I don't want to go through all
>> 450 just to change the "Sort As" field.
>> I appreciate that it's hard to handle all the various nuances of naming
>> convention in different countries. However, a few simple improvements can
>> make a big difference:
>> 1) When "Consider single pa/matronymic as surname is checked" and a name
>> has no surname, the patronymic shouldn't be shown twice. (Perhaps this is a
> Sounds like a bug indeed. I was actually not aware of this option. Not
> sure how it is supposed to behave. As patronymic is part of the surname
> part of the name editor, it will always be part of the surname, that is, it
> is shared between siblings. In older versions of Gramps patronymic was its
> own field (
> http://www.gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=File:Edit-an.png ),
> but not in Gramps 3.4.
> So, perhaps that option should not even exist?
>> 2) For the "People" view, the "View"->"Configure view" should offer the
>> choice of sorting names by a) unprefixed surname, b) prefixed surname, c)
>> first name, or d) pa/matronymic.
> Not really something a view should do. The sorting should be used for that
> in general fashion. As prefix is a field, don't you want
> "Primary[sur] NotPatronymic, Given Suffix Patronymic Prefix" instead of
> "Prefix Primary[sur] NotPatronymic, Given Suffix Patronymic"
>> Genealogy is a very popular pursuit in the Netherlands (so it seems), so
>> I'm somewhat surprised Gramps doesn't have better support for Dutch
>> genealogy. And certainly, patronymics are not unique to that country.
> Problem seems more related to prefixes. In Flanders we sort prefixes
> different from the Netherlands, so for us it's ok (that's why "Prefix
> Primary[sur] NotPatronymic, Given Suffix Patronymic" is the default, and
> nobody complained of other cultures). Perhaps you should just follow the
> Flemish standard :-)
> Somebody else mentioned problematic Dutch prefixes some months ago also...
> All in all, I'd like to see what is not possible at the moment with
> examples, to see if there is a pattern we can code for.
>> Cheers! Hanms
>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 8:46 AM, Benny Malengier <
>> benny.malengier@...> wrote:
>>> 2013/3/20 Hans Boldt <hans@...>
>>>> Half of my ancestry is from the Netherlands. Prior to 1812, patronymics
>>>> were very common (but not universal) in that country. I've been trying to
>>>> configure Gramps (3.4.2-1) to handle the patronymics properly, but without
>>>> success. My question is this: What improvements can we expect in future
>>>> versions with respect to patronymics?
>>>> And how have others configured Gramps now to handle Dutch names?
>>>> So far, the best name format I've been able to come up with is
>>>> this: "Prefix Primary[sur] NotPatronymic, Given Suffix Patronymic". But it
>>>> isn't perfect. For example, I've selected "Consider single pa/matronymic as
>>>> surname", but now I get the patronymic listed twice, at the beginning and
>>>> end of the name.
>>>> Also, I'd prefer to put the prefix at the end of the format. However,
>>>> in the "People" view, the names are still sorted as if the prefix were
>>>> present at the beginning. For Dutch names, the prefix should not be
>>>> considered in the sorting of names. (Without that convention, half the
>>>> names in a Dutch phone book would be in the V section!)
>>>> Also, within the "People" view, I'd like the option to sort names based
>>>> on patronymic, as well as the normal surname.
>>>> To summarize, here are some examples of Dutch name:
>>>> "Gerrit Moll" (surname only)
>>>> "Brand Jacobsen" (patronymic only)
>>>> "Jan Splinterzoon van de Klashorst" (surname and patronymic)
>>>> (That is, the name may or may not have a normal surname, and it may or
>>>> may not have a patronymic.)
>>>> 1) I'd like the names to be displayed as "Moll, Gerrit", "Jacobsen,
>>>> Brand", and "Klashorst, Jan Splinterzoon van de" (respectively).
>>>> 2) I'd like to have the choice of sorting on surname without prefix
>>>> ("Klashorst") or on patronymic ("Splinterzoon").
>>>> 3) If "Consider single pa/matronymic as surname" is selected, I don't
>>>> want to see the patronymic listed twice.
>>> One size fit's all solution can always have problems.
>>> Take the default display as you defined, and for those you don't like,
>>> use the Sort As field in the name editor to overrule the default.
>>>> Cheers! Hans
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