On 2/fev/2004, at 18:43, Sherm Pendley wrote:
> On Jan 31, 2004, at 3:18 PM, Pedro Melo Cunha wrote:
>> regarding this problem, I think that having the *option* of making a=20=
>> totally standalone application (that includes the libperl and all=20
>> required modules) would be nice to have.
> I agree that would be a nice option, but there are some practical=20
> issues that would need to be addressed to make it work.
> One is, which libperl? The application would have to bundle a copy of=20=
> the CB framework that's been linked against a specific version of=20
> libperl - and then copy the *same* libperl into the .app bundle.
> That could be accomplished with a "copy files" build phase in=20
> PB/Xcode. But, the file(s) to copy would be different, depending on=20
> what version of Perl needed to be bundled. So some manual adjustment=20=
> would often be required. That sort of thing can be difficult to=20
> support - even experienced developers had trouble adjusting the=20
> CB-0.3.0-pre to get it to build on their own systems, for example.
> One way to work around the "which libperl" question would be to bundle=20=
> a complete copy of the latest Perl with the CB developer's package.=20
> But that would be a significant increase in the size of that package;=20=
> a tarball of /System/Library/Perl on my Panther machine is about=20
> 7.5MB, whereas the current release tarball is 1.6MB.
This is my prefered option. First, you don't need the full perl distro,=20=
just libperl.dylib and the core modules you are going to use.
Second, It's a trade-off, the decision being made by the programmer. I=20=
prefer to download x Meg more (zipped even) but having the assurance=20
that is't just drag-and-drop install...
As I said this is optional...
>> Yes, I understand that this would make downloads a bit bigger, but=20
>> really, how much bigger? libperl.dylib is 1.1Mb, and even with=20
>> another 900k of required perl modules, it's 2Mb,*unzipped*. I got=20
>> around 900k zipped...
> You have to also consider the size of CamelBones apps.=20
> RendezvousBrowser is 100KB. ShuX is perhaps a better example, as it=20
> has an application icon, two file icons, and a couple of tiff files=20
> for toolbar buttons; even with all that, it's still only 248KB. Thilo=20=
> Planz' PerlPad, includes an extensive set of HTML help files, yet it=20=
> still weighs in at a mere 376KB.
Yes, but they all lack drag-and-drop-install's, and that's something=20
that I think some people are wiling to pay with a large download. As=20
you said, making camelbones 0.3-pre was dificult to even experienced=20
perl programmers... Imagine doing it with end-users...
There are alternatives: you could put the libperl and core modules in=20
the Runtime... That way, we only need to download it once, and all the=20=
camelbones app's can share it.
> At the moment, the "tiny app" crown is held by the web browser app=20
> that Tom Insam posted about yesterday - which is insanely cool, by the=20=
> way. The compiled app is 36KB, and 12KB zipped. That's worth repeating=20=
> - A fully functional (although admittedly very basic) web browser in a=20=
> **twelve kilobyte** download.
Yep, way cool :)
> The sizes you speak of - 2MB unzipped, 900KB zipped - are fairly small=20=
> in absolute terms. But relatively speaking, in comparison to the size=20=
> of CB apps, they're huge. A 2MB addition to Mail.app (24MB) or=20
> Safari.app (11.2MB) would be insignificant; such an addition to a CB=20=
> app can easily multiply its size by a factor of ten or more.
Well, but the "small" size does not include the runtime. It uses the=20
perl already installed... I can live with that for=20
But for totally end-user experience, I think that unless we can make=20
camelbones "smart" enough to install with wichever perl is running,=20
it's very dificult to distribute CamelBones in the large.
> After the one-time install of the supporting framework, app install=20
> *is* just drag and drop.
I have a custom perl installed. Will it work there? There are a lot of=20=
things that can go wrong, if people install a diferent perl.
What about upgrades? If Apple releases a new operating system, with a=20
new perl, will it work.
Don't get me wrong, I would prefer a small download that just works.=20
But I think that it would be GREAT to have a framework-version with=20
perl built-in. At least, that's my personal opinion.
Thanks in advance,
Pedro Melo Cunha - <melo@...>
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