Webware for Python

Jason Hildebrand wrote:
> No major changes from me; I've been reducing my delta over the last few
> weeks.  I'm sure a lot of people have local changes, though.  I've copied
> webware-devel to give others a chance to pipe up.
> 
> I think doing this refactoring is a worthwhile effort; it would be great to see
> Webware packaged and distributed.  
> 
> Probably the biggest hindrance to this has been CVS, because it doesn't let 
> you move files around.  Is it possible to avoid losing the CVS log for all 
> the files which move?  Should we consider switching to the subversion repository
> which Ian has set up on the new server?

I haven't tried moving CVS repositories into Subversion before -- or 
rather, I gave up the history and just imported them as a plain set of 
files.  I know it's possible to import the history, but I don't know if 
it's easy.

The other big problem is unit tests.  Webware is not unit-test-friendly 
at the moment, which makes refactoring feel less safe.  But making it 
unit test friendly means yet more refactoring (mostly decoupling).  I 
don't think it's very major refactoring, but it's an important part.

If I was going to do such refactoring, my strategy would be to pull out 
pieces of the system and refine them into independent testable pieces 
with well defined interfaces.  The session objects would probably be an 
easy one to start with.  There really aren't a huge number of pieces, so 
such a refactoring might not be that hard.

   Ian

On Apr 6, 2004, at 10:23 AM, Jason Hildebrand wrote:

> Probably the biggest hindrance to this has been CVS, because it 
> doesn't let
> you move files around.  Is it possible to avoid losing the CVS log for 
> all
> the files which move?  Should we consider switching to the subversion 
> repository
> which Ian has set up on the new server?

Crap.  I had no idea there was already a SVN repository setup.  I 
created my own.  Where is the svn repository for Webware?  I can't seem 
to find a reference to it in my mailing list archives.

>> Are there any style guidelines I should be following while I modify
>> the code?
>
> Yes.  See 
> http://webware.sourceforge.net/Webware/Docs/StyleGuidelines.html

Any problem with converting the whole thing to spaces?  I'm like Ian 
Bicking - I really hate tabs and I think most of the Python community 
uses spaces as well.

I'm using vim with sw=4, ts=4, expandtab as my indentation settings.

vic

---
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act. It is a 
habit."  - Aristotle

Victor Ng wrote:
> 
> 
> On Apr 6, 2004, at 10:23 AM, Jason Hildebrand wrote:
> 
>     Probably the biggest hindrance to this has been CVS, because it
>     doesn't let
>     you move files around. Is it possible to avoid losing the CVS log
>     for all
>     the files which move? Should we consider switching to the subversion
>     repository
>     which Ian has set up on the new server?
> 
> 
> Crap. I had no idea there was already a SVN repository setup. I created 
> my own. Where is the svn repository for Webware? I can't seem to find a 
> reference to it in my mailing list archives.

I guess my email got caught because I sent it from the wrong address, 
and just now appeared.  I guess I wasn't paying much attention ;)

It's at svn://w4py.org/

>         Are there any style guidelines I should be following while I modify
>         the code?
> 
> 
>     Yes. See
>     http://webware.sourceforge.net/Webware/Docs/StyleGuidelines.html
> 
> 
> Any problem with converting the whole thing to spaces? I'm like Ian 
> Bicking - I really hate tabs and I think most of the Python community 
> uses spaces as well.
> 
> I'm using vim with sw=4, ts=4, expandtab as my indentation settings.

For what it's worth, the anti-tab people never, ever will be convinced. 
  I think we deserve to win out of sheer persistence.  Using Emacs I 
have to keep my tabs at eight spaces, which makes the Webware code look 
especially ugly (especially since almost all code is indented at least 
two tabs to start with).

 From PEP 8, the style guidelines:

   Indentation

     Use the default of Emacs' Python-mode: 4 spaces for one
     indentation level.  For really old code that you don't want to
     mess up, you can continue to use 8-space tabs.  Emacs Python-mode
     auto-detects the prevailing indentation level used in a file and
     sets its indentation parameters accordingly.

   Tabs or Spaces?

     Never mix tabs and spaces.  The most popular way of indenting
     Python is with spaces only.  The second-most popular way is with
     tabs only.  Code indented with a mixture of tabs and spaces should
     be converted to using spaces exclusively.  (In Emacs, select the
     whole buffer and hit ESC-x untabify.)  When invoking the python
     command line interpreter with the -t option, it issues warnings
     about code that illegally mixes tabs and spaces.  When using -tt
     these warnings become errors.  These options are highly
     recommended!

     For new projects, spaces-only are strongly recommended over tabs.
     Most editors have features that make this easy to do.  (In Emacs,
     make sure indent-tabs-mode is nil).

On Thu, 2004-04-15 at 10:49, Ian Bicking wrote:

> For what it's worth, the anti-tab people never, ever will be
> convinced.

Did you mean pro-tab people?

Victor, if you use vim, see http://wiki.w4py.org/copingwithtabs.html
This has worked well for me.

peace,
Jason

Jason Hildebrand wrote:
> On Thu, 2004-04-15 at 10:49, Ian Bicking wrote:
>>For what it's worth, the anti-tab people never, ever will be
>>convinced.
> 
> Did you mean pro-tab people?

No, I mean the anti-tab people.  We might cope, but we won't be happy. 
And since the large majority of Python code uses spaces, spaces will 
always have better environment support.  (E.g., I've eliminated most 
tabs from the wiki because they are difficult to work with in reST).

   Ian

Actually - the first thing I did was replace all the tabs to spaces 
using sed.

for file in `find . -name "*.py"`
do
	sed -e "s/^V<tab>/    /g" $file > $file.new
          mv $file.new $file
done

Changing from spaces to tabs is a similar operation.

BTW - I did notice that Webware in CVS had 2 files where tabs and 
spaces were mixed - so there are some people who are using spaces.  :)

vic

On Apr 15, 2004, at 11:59 AM, Jason Hildebrand wrote:

> On Thu, 2004-04-15 at 10:49, Ian Bicking wrote:
>
>> For what it's worth, the anti-tab people never, ever will be
>> convinced.
>
> Did you mean pro-tab people?
>
> Victor, if you use vim, see http://wiki.w4py.org/copingwithtabs.html
> This has worked well for me.
>
> peace,
> Jason
>
>
---
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act. It is a 
habit."  - Aristotle