On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 19:45:11 +0100 Kim Woelders <kim@...> babbled:
> Michael Jennings wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 14 February 2007, at 01:18:46 (+0100),
> > Kim Woelders wrote:
> >> I still don't quite get all the opposition against autopoint (except
> >> the stupid requirement that the cvs program must be available). In
> >> my opinion automake-1.10 is not broken but people here insist on
> >> pissing against the wind and refuse to set up configuration stuff as
> >> it is supposed to be, and then blame the autotools that they don't
> >> work (/me ducks).
> > Okay, please point out how the "configuration stuff" "is supposed to
> > be" to avoid trying to invoke the cvs command.
> It is not possible to avoid using "cvs" from autopoint.
> The gettext source files are stored in a tar'ed CVS archive
> (/usr/share/gettext/archive.tar.gz on my box), and autopoint
> extracts the revision given in e.g. AM_GNU_GETTEXT_VERSION([0.12.1])
> from this CVS archive.
> This seems to me to be a reasonable way to provide a given gettext
> version specified in configure.in.
> Now if cvs was used to acces some remote CVS server that would
> be bad, but it isn't.
> Sure, it requires the cvs program to be available on a developer
> platform. So what?
> >> The e17/apps/e autogen.sh has used autopoint for months now, and my
> >> impression is that the noise level from people with autotool issues
> >> in this module has decreased considerably since then.
> > raster disabled it on November 2nd. You sneakily (as sneakily as one
> > can with CVS...but it snuck past me...) re-enabled it on November
> > 3rd. The "lack of noise" probably has a lot more to do with those for
> > whom it doesn't work resigning themselves to just dealing with it,
> > like devilhorns.
> Yeah, I'm a sneaky bastard. I even sent a stealth message to the
> e-devel list about it to make sure nobody noticed:
> my devious plan failed and somebody who was obviously impersonating
> you responded:
> Well, I was trying to deal with the problem (I assume we agree
> there is one) by attempting to find a solution that doesn't
> involve requiring specific autotool versions or doing private
> config file hacks. That does not seem to have succeeded, not for
> everybody, anyway.
> If using cvs as a versioned (local file) archive extractor is banned
> so is using autopoint, and we are as far as I am concerned at a dead
> If we do accept to use autopoint after all I'd be willing to
> spend some more time to try and get things right on other
> platforms than mine (x86, fc6/fc~7).
> To do this it would be helpful to know what happens when things
> go bad (other than "massive build failure") and which distro/
> platform we are talking about.
the real problem is introducing cvs as a build and rebuild dep (which it never
was before - cvs was entirely divorced and separate from build file creation -
which allowed us to divorce CMS from coding if we ever wanted to). sure it'd
need the cvs command - but it's sneaking in. it feels very unclean to me. i see
the logic of using cvs as a compression scheme for multiple versions of
gettext, but where autofoo used to be basic unix utils + m4 now is stealing
away with cvs too. we are forever changing out autofoo - mostly for the next
user X who uses gentoo or some bleeding edge distro who updates to latest
bleeding edge autofoo X and breaks something.
> >> Anyway, I think adding autopoint to autogen.sh is only part of the
> >> solution if you go down that path. There seem to be quite a few
> >> other fixups required, like po/Makefile->po/Makefile.in in
> >> configure.in, remove po/Makefile.am, add po/Makevars and
> >> po/POTFILES.in, order of autoconf and autoheader in autogen.sh, and
> >> more.
> > While automake 1.10 may or may not be broken, gettext clearly is. Had
> > we devoted the same amount of time to developing a new, better i18n
> > solution (i.e., one that behaves reasonably rather than like an
> > autistic cross-eyed gerbil on a caffeine high) that we've spent trying
> > to get each new version of the autoFUCK tools to work properly, we
> > wouldn't need gettext any more.
> > gettext should be smart enough to work properly, and automake should
> > be smart enough to know that gettext is more broke than MC Hammer's
> > fashion coordinator and that workarounds, not fatal errors, are the
> > proper course of action.
> >> In case anybody bothers to persue this I have attached a patch for
> >> the alarm module, which passes make distcheck with automake-1.9.6 as
> >> well as automake-1.10 (a few bits in the patch are not related to
> >> gettext but required just to pass distcheck). I'm not saying this is
> >> the One and Only way to do this but only that this patch works for
> >> me.
> > Let's see if it works for devilhorns. And I'll try it with automake
> > 1.8.
> >> No worries - I have absolutely no intention to commit this in fear of
> >> what might happen to my reproductive powers.
> > Good boy. Don't think I can't find my way to West Kwoville, Denmark.
> > :-)
> > Michael
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------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) raster@...
Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本)