On 10/31/2007 19:25, Christopher Michael wrote:
> Hisham Mardam Bey wrote:
>> Hello gang,
>> I'm sure some of you have (passively) read some of the discussions
>> that are occurring on #edevelop from time to time regarding the
>> direction this project is taking. I am mainly talking about E17, the
>> window manager, and not the entire EFL.
>> The main discussion was centered about how we're developing E17 and
>> where its going. We now have two places where we keep TODO items and
>> bugs, the TODO file in apps/e, and bugzilla.=20
> Well, imo, this is just silly to have things in two places.=20
Agreed. two places will never work. I've no real preference either way
(though bugzilla or somesuch allows the *community* to enter bugs), as
long as whatever is decided is adhered to (and works).
> From what I=20
> have noticed so far, not too many people are actually using the bugzill=
> for e17. Users appear to be entering bugs there, but noone appears to b=
> paying much attention to it. I do what I can there...fixing things,=20
> sorting invalid bugs vs legit ones, but alas I am only one person with =
> set amount of time available and would rather not be spending it muckin=
> with bugzilla.
> The way things are going,
>> we have several "open" features in E17 that are partially done, some
>> major, some minor. Among those features are EFM, and the First Time
>> Run Wizard (FTRW).
>> EFM was supposed to be a simple file selector, it then grew into a
>> file manager, it then started getting custom directory and window
>> configuration abilities, and then grew so big it needed its own
>> process. As it stands, none of its features are 100% complete and
>> almost without bugs, except the file selector. The file selector is a
>> core part of E17 (for obvious reasons), but the file manager is really=
>> not. I would classify it as a nice to have feature, along with desktop=
>> icons, but its nothing major that can prevent a release from
> I would tend to agree here. Granted, having a native filemanager for e1=
> would be nice, but given E's modular nature this could easily come late=
Agreed again. A filemanager is not a *necessity*, and can be plugged in
later. Although E17 is frequently referred to as a "Desktop Shell", imo
lightweight should be one of its primary goals. And if that is the
case... the filemanager should be removable if so desired by a user.
>> The FTRW is a useful feature to have that has also been started and
>> has not seen completion yet. It was always on the TODO, but it sprung
>> out of no where at a certain point in time during the EFM development
>> cycle. Although its a nice and very useful feature, and I think it
>> would be a good idea to have it available when we have a release, its
>> taken development time from EFM and other incomplete features in E,
>> and is currently not finished. Yet another incomplete and relatively
>> big feature.
> Again, I tend to agree with this. A "nice to have" & potentially "neat"=
> thing for first time users.
>> Some other items in the TODO are considered medium sized tasks, and
>> the majority can be considered small tasks. I don't know about the
>> state of things in bugzilla, but we can assume the same as with the
> Fairly accurate. Bugzilla may have one or two other "issues" that are=20
> not on TODO list, but again, it really is just a dup of TODO.
>> So the main question I have for everyone is, what now? We're writing
>> code, time is passing, and we're not closing (or barely closing) any
>> of the items on the TODO. New features that are not always planned
>> make their way every now and then, and we're never substantially
>> closer to a release or a release candidate. What do you folks propose
>> we do to handle this problem? Should we freeze the addition of new
>> items to E17 (similar to the freeze done a while back) and concentrate=
>> on closing all the TODO items and the bugs?=20
> Personally, I am suprised this *hasn't* happened yet :)
Imho, a hard freeze is the only way it will get done in any *reasonable*
amount of time. Sooo much gets done, yet only a small percentage of it
is towards the TODO. It will take a mandate, imo. While all the work
is good work, and certainly needed. Its not moving us any closer to the
goal (if that is measured by the TODO).
> Whatever decision we make,
>> we need to do something about the way E17 is being developed, and the
>> pace at which it is being developed at.
> Indeed. Anyone know of a way to cat /more/time >> /devs ?? :)
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Just my two cents.