LMMS

sounds cool! I'll be waiting its implementation! Is this ladspa?

On Sunday 08 February 2009 21:25:27 Stefan Fendt wrote:
> What I forgot to mention: There are some sound-samples of these filters
> to be found here:
>
> http://lmms.sourceforge.net/lsp.php?action=show&file=439
> http://lmms.sourceforge.net/lsp.php?action=show&file=440
>
> cu
> Stefan
>

Hi,

Am Sonntag, 8. Februar 2009 19:20:20 schrieb Stefan Fendt:
> I have patched lmms (0.4.0 I should update the source... *jieks*) to
> simulate active RC-Filters. This is the filter-type which was used in
> real hardware analog synthesizers. It behaves differently if overdriven
> (too much input volume) and on high Q situations. As far as I can tell
> they sound quite real...
Cool stuff! Thanks a lot! However there's one thing to change: you must not 
insert new items in the FilterType enum for file compatibility reason. New 
filter types have to be appended to the end of the enum. Could you please 
change this and submit a patch rather than your two modified files to make 
review easier?

Thanks,

toby

mifth schrieb:
> sounds cool! I'll be waiting its implementation! Is this ladspa?
>   

No, it is not ladspa (though it would not be too difficult to make some
ladspa-plugins out of it...). As I wanted to make Tripple-Osc sound more
analogue(*), I started with the filters it uses. The important
difference between the RC-type filters and the biquad-filters is the
internal clipping:

On analogue circuits you have to model the differential equations by
using one-poles and amplifiers. While the amplifiers used for filters
actually were extremely good, they could not go beyond V_max, so they
clip in each stage which would go beyond... This clipped signal is fed
back into the filter and forms nasty sounds or if done decently some
sort of warmth...

cu
Stefan


(*) Tripple-OSC sounds _very_ good, if you know what to do with it...
The only things I really mis are: fine-detuning of the Oscillators by
more than +/-100 cents and some more analogue waveforms. While the later
can be just loaded into Tripple-OSC (if there was not that nasty bug
preventing it to load (some) waveforms correctly...), the former can
only be achieved by modifying it's source...

The ability to fine-detune the oscillators by more than +/-100 cents is
so important for modulating hard-synced sounds. BTW: there is another
flavor of hard-sync which doesn't just reset the oscillators phase but
alternates between reset to 0° and reset to 180° for each occurring
"reset". The later sounds different (somewhat more harsh as there always
is a phase difference betreen the new and the old cycle) and sometimes
more appealing...

I may put up some sound-samples of the hard-sync-modulation with and
without greater range than +/-100 cents later the day, too...

Hello Tobias!

Tobias Doerffel schrieb:
> Cool stuff! Thanks a lot!

I appreciate that you like it! Thanks a lot, too!

> However there's one thing to change: you must not 
> insert new items in the FilterType enum for file compatibility reason.

I would have done so, but I ran into trouble with the "Lowpass 2x"
enty... ;-)

> New 
> filter types have to be appended to the end of the enum. Could you please 
> change this and submit a patch rather than your two modified files to make 
> review easier?
>   

I will fix that. I have done a SVN-checkout, now and will modify
stable-0.4 and unstable-0.4... If I am right, I will have two
SVN-patches against these later the day with fixed enum-order, too. I
will post them as patches, then...

all the best,
Stefan

erm,...

svn/unstable-0.4
svn/stable-0.4

Which one of these is the current developers version? I suppose unstable?

cu
Stefan

Am Montag, 9. Februar 2009 09:38:29 schrieb Stefan Fendt:
> erm,...
>
> svn/unstable-0.4
> svn/stable-0.4
>
> Which one of these is the current developers version? I suppose unstable?
use trunk/lmms although both would work in this case. However your patch won't 
go into 0.4.x so trunk (which will be 1.0.x) is the right place to go.

toby

Tobias Doerffel schrieb:
> Am Montag, 9. Februar 2009 09:38:29 schrieb Stefan Fendt:
>   
>> erm,...
>>
>> svn/unstable-0.4
>> svn/stable-0.4
>>
>> Which one of these is the current developers version? I suppose unstable?
>>     
> use trunk/lmms although both would work in this case. However your patch won't 
> go into 0.4.x so trunk (which will be 1.0.x) is the right place to go.
>   

OK, so I checked this out (0.4.x trunk) and the filters did mysteriously
appear to be in it... :) Groovy, so it is already included...

I might if there is desire for that, add stacked versions of the filters
(24dB)...
Naming them "RC Low-/Band-/Highpass 24dB" and the others renaming to "RC
Low-/Band-/Highpass 12dB"

and this time I would post a patch, then... :D

cu,
Stefan

pgib did this last night for you

> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 10:59:06 +0100
> From: stefan@...
> To: lmms-devel@...
> Subject: Re: [LMMS-devel] Analog Filters for my favorite Toy... ;-)
> 
> Tobias Doerffel schrieb:
> > Am Montag, 9. Februar 2009 09:38:29 schrieb Stefan Fendt:
> >   
> >> erm,...
> >>
> >> svn/unstable-0.4
> >> svn/stable-0.4
> >>
> >> Which one of these is the current developers version? I suppose unstable?
> >>     
> > use trunk/lmms although both would work in this case. However your patch won't 
> > go into 0.4.x so trunk (which will be 1.0.x) is the right place to go.
> >   
> 
> OK, so I checked this out (0.4.x trunk) and the filters did mysteriously
> appear to be in it... :) Groovy, so it is already included...
> 
> I might if there is desire for that, add stacked versions of the filters
> (24dB)...
> Naming them "RC Low-/Band-/Highpass 24dB" and the others renaming to "RC
> Low-/Band-/Highpass 12dB"
> 
> and this time I would post a patch, then... :D
> 
> cu,
> Stefan
> 
> 
> 
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Stefan Fendt schrieb:
> I may put up some sound-samples of the hard-sync-modulation with and
> without greater range than +/-100 cents later the day, too...
>   
did so:
http://lmms.sourceforge.net/lsp.php?content=update&file=441

first bass is using the coarse-detuning, second is using fine-detune
over +/-2400cent for the slave-oscillator... I hope you can hear the
difference ;-)

cu
Stefan

Am Montag, 9. Februar 2009 09:05:24 schrieb Stefan Fendt:
> (*) Tripple-OSC sounds _very_ good, if you know what to do with it...
> The only things I really mis are: fine-detuning of the Oscillators by
> more than +/-100 cents and some more analogue waveforms. While the later
> can be just loaded into Tripple-OSC (if there was not that nasty bug
> preventing it to load (some) waveforms correctly...), the former can
> only be achieved by modifying it's source...
>
> The ability to fine-detune the oscillators by more than +/-100 cents is
> so important for modulating hard-synced sounds.
An additional spinbox for detuning multiplicator next to the pitch-knob is 
planned for the 0.9.x series so one could easily combine this by making 
TripleOsc use this multiplicator as well for its fine detuning knobs. I'll 
implement the basics later this week.

> BTW: there is another
> flavor of hard-sync which doesn't just reset the oscillators phase but
> alternates between reset to 0° and reset to 180° for each occurring
> "reset". The later sounds different (somewhat more harsh as there always
> is a phase difference betreen the new and the old cycle) and sometimes
> more appealing...
Could be done quite easily as well however there's almost no space left in the 
GUI for another modulation button or an according switch...

toby

24 dB active RC-Filters:

Here is the sound:
http://lmms.sourceforge.net/lsp.php?action=show&file=442

Patch attached. Hope you like it... :)

all the best,
Stefan

PS: with the svn-version I have a "funny" effect: CPU-load raises and
falls from ~20% to 100%, even if doing *nothing*. The stable 0.4.2 (and
my old 0.4.0) doesn't even reach 10% load when in idle... Any idea what
this could be?

Hi Stefan,

> 24 dB active RC-Filters:
> Here is the sound:
> http://lmms.sourceforge.net/lsp.php?action=show&file=442
> Patch attached. Hope you like it... :)

Wow, damn great sounds, thanks alot :-)


bye,
  Settel

Just in case anyone hasn't noticed by now, but the RC filters are in HEAD.

-Paul

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 3:51 AM, Achim Settelmeier
<lmms-devel@...> wrote:
> Hi Stefan,
>
>> 24 dB active RC-Filters:
>> Here is the sound:
>> http://lmms.sourceforge.net/lsp.php?action=show&file=442
>> Patch attached. Hope you like it... :)
>
> Wow, damn great sounds, thanks alot :-)
>
>
> bye,
>  Settel
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM)
> software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to
> build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local
> resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and
> Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com
> _______________________________________________
> LMMS-devel mailing list
> LMMS-devel@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lmms-devel
>

Paul Giblock schrieb:
> Just in case anyone hasn't noticed by now, but the RC filters are in HEAD.
Many thanks!

BTW: is there some demand on better vocal formant-filters, too? Making
lmms say "ahh"...? (Or "ayh"... or something... it's good for analog
choirs, too). It is just like that the ladspa-vowel-filter doesn't sound
decent to my taste...

cu
Stefan

Stefan Fendt schrieb:
> BTW: is there some demand on better vocal formant-filters, too? 
>   

if so, here is what it can sound like:
http://lmms.sourceforge.net/lsp.php?action=show&file=446



have fun,
Stefan

Am Donnerstag, 12. Februar 2009 11:16:51 schrieb Stefan Fendt:
> Stefan Fendt schrieb:
> > BTW: is there some demand on better vocal formant-filters, too?
>
> if so, here is what it can sound like:
> http://lmms.sourceforge.net/lsp.php?action=show&file=446
Wow, great stuff! :) If you want we can include your code.

toby

Hi Stefan,

> BTW: is there some demand on better vocal formant-filters, too?
> if so, here is what it can sound like:
> http://lmms.sourceforge.net/lsp.php?action=show&file=446

Again, this is awesome stuff, thanks for sharing :-)
Are there any tutorials available how to create these effects?


bye,
  Settel

Hello Achim,

>> BTW: is there some demand on better vocal formant-filters, too?if so, here is what it can sound like:
>> http://lmms.sourceforge.net/lsp.php?action=show&file=446
>>     
> Again, this is awesome stuff, thanks for sharing :-)
> Are there any tutorials available how to create these effects?
>   

Well, no... ;-) but I could do some... It isn't too complicated to
achieve these sounds either... Most of them were developed once for
BacteriuM (an Oberheim Matrix-8 alike Software-Synth I wrote a loooong
time ago during my studies.). I just have translated the used techniques
to Tripple-OSC and the new filters. (I ever wanted to make BacteriuM
real-time... but ... well, there was no time to do it... now i *can* do
these sounds in realtime with lmms. So many thanks to you all!)...

cu
Stefan

a short video demo/tutorial of the features would be cool

> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 16:50:24 +0100
> From: stefan@...
> CC: lmms-devel@...
> Subject: Re: [LMMS-devel] 24dB-Filters [Was: Re: Analog Filters for my favorite Toy... ; -)]
> 
> Hello Achim,
> 
> >> BTW: is there some demand on better vocal formant-filters, too?if so, here is what it can sound like:
> >> http://lmms.sourceforge.net/lsp.php?action=show&file=446
> >>     
> > Again, this is awesome stuff, thanks for sharing :-)
> > Are there any tutorials available how to create these effects?
> >   
> 
> Well, no... ;-) but I could do some... It isn't too complicated to
> achieve these sounds either... Most of them were developed once for
> BacteriuM (an Oberheim Matrix-8 alike Software-Synth I wrote a loooong
> time ago during my studies.). I just have translated the used techniques
> to Tripple-OSC and the new filters. (I ever wanted to make BacteriuM
> real-time... but ... well, there was no time to do it... now i *can* do
> these sounds in realtime with lmms. So many thanks to you all!)...
> 
> cu
> Stefan
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> LMMS-devel mailing list
> LMMS-devel@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lmms-devel

Hi Toby,

>> http://lmms.sourceforge.net/lsp.php?action=show&file=446
>>     
There is another one... ;-)

http://lmms.sourceforge.net/lsp.php?action=show&file=447

Tripple-OSC says "Computer-Musik"... *g*


>
>   Wow, great stuff! :) If you want we can include your code.
>   

I am preparing a patch against the svn...

cu
Stefan

Here is the patch against rev 2017:

have fun!
Stefan

Am Donnerstag, 12. Februar 2009 17:15:03 schrieb Stefan Fendt:
> Here is the patch against rev 2017:
Thanks! Looks good so far. :) I'll commit to trunk later this day.

toby

Am Montag, 9. Februar 2009 16:20:37 schrieb Stefan Fendt:
> Stefan Fendt schrieb:
> > I may put up some sound-samples of the hard-sync-modulation with and
> > without greater range than +/-100 cents later the day, too...
>
> did so:
> http://lmms.sourceforge.net/lsp.php?content=update&file=441
>
> first bass is using the coarse-detuning, second is using fine-detune
> over +/-2400cent for the slave-oscillator... I hope you can hear the
> difference ;-)
I have good news! :D Checkout a recent Git snapshot and you'll find support 
for adjustable pitch range for instrument tracks.

Toby

Am Sonntag, 17. Mai 2009 11:37:38 schrieb Tobias Doerffel:
> I have good news! :D Checkout a recent Git snapshot and you'll find support
> for adjustable pitch range for instrument tracks.
Addition: TripleOsc's fine detuning knobs make use of it as well.

Toby