* Lars Lindner <lars.lindner@...> [2006-03-10 00:25]:
>> My Gecko seemed to use Gecko defaults, which is to use serif
>> for everything and looks like, err, arse. And there’s no
>> chrome in Liferea to customise the Gecko profile, you have to
>> do that by sharing it with some Gecko-based browser somehow.
>Yes, for Gecko too. If it does not work I consider it as a bug
>that needs to be fixed.
Hmm. My gtk+ system font (the one used for menus and suchlike) is
Bitstream Vera Sans 9. I just checked what Gecko does by default
in 1.0.7; see attachment. Looks rather like serif to me; wouldn’t
>> Err, yes, it was kind of the *point* to make the headers look
>> more fancy. Compare some of the longer posts from Tim Bray
>> with and without this style rule and you’ll see what I’m
>> talking about. The question, if this is very special
>> formatting, then why is the `blockquote` styling included with
>> Liferea not so?
>I agree. It is my special formatting and as with your special
>formatting we should not expect others to be fond of it.
>Tastes are much to different.
Well, it’s not really a matter of taste at stake; the fact is
that a minor amount of styling actually helps readability /
usability, and I’d like bit of minimal, not-very-controversial
styling to be shipped as the default look.
>I remember heated discussions with someone who just wouldn't
>believe that Serif makes longer texts easier to read.
On the screen or on paper? Screens don’t have enough resolution
to render serifs properly at reading-suitable font sizes, so
serif fonts reduce readability – whereas on paper, they help.
>The guy also didn't believe that different line length make
>finding lines easier than when using equally lengthy lines
>(don't know the layout term for it...).
That depends on the length of the line. For short lines,
justified text is much preferrable; that’s why newspapers are
typeset that way. however, you need a very strong, language-aware
word wrapping algorithm so you can break and hyphenate long words
correctly, otherwise you get wide spaces and a very uneven
blackness and restless appearance.
For long lines, it’s easier to get an even blackness, but line
height becomes important. If you mush long lines together
closely, it gets very hard to jump from the end of one line to
the start of the other without losing your track. If you space
lines generouly, that isn’t a problem. But if you don’t, it’s
better not to justify text, I agree.
>I think the pure belief how nice it looks makes most people
>totally ignorant against all real ergonomic benefits. So my
>conclusion is to use an absolute minimalistic formatting with
>the users default font.
Yes, I agree.
>I think the typical graphical MUAs that are optimised to help
>you reading dozens of mails per day are a good example how to do
>it right. And they all (I think of Sylpheed, Evolution, Pan...)
>do use only one or two fonts, do some colorization to help
>recognize threading and make URLs clickable. Nothing more.
Absolutely, but remember that no such thing as a heading exists
>> It’s up to you if you want Liferea to look boring of course.
>Yes, I think if the format is boring, meaning not interesting
>you, never leading you to think about it, then it is optimal.
If it’s too boring, I will end up constantly thinking about how
boring it is. :-)
I actually agree, you know; this is exactly what I love about the
new default GNOME theme (see <http://plasmasturm.org/log/304/>).
Clearlooks theme is pretty; it just doesn’t try to be stylish,
hip or designerish.
However, I don’t believe using “boring is good” can be used as
an excuse for “I couldn’t be bothered to make it look not ugly.”
Remember how gtk+ used to look? There’s good boring and bad
That’s what I’d like to see for the default styling in Liferea;
something that should be moderately pretty without trying to be
something to make screenshots of – a Clearlooks for Liferea so to
(Of course, you are free to disagree that Liferea currently looks
boring in a bad way… I’m just arguing that boring is not
>And yes, writing a modern app with many graphical gizmos would
>be much much cooler... But then we would need a skin engine!
>Patches anyone? *)
Ugh. I’m not suggesting anything like that. Although if you make
the HTML clean enough, it will be easy for users to do their own
fancy styling using CSS.
(Well, except that sufficiently clean HTML that it can be styled
freely with CSS will only be practical for users with Gecko, not
those who use GtkHTML2, so then you would have to include a
rudimentary proto-skinning engine anyway… or at least make the
generated HTML dependent on the HTML widget implementation.)
Again, I wasn’t advocating that the default presentation in
Liferea should win webdesign awards, just saying that it would be
a great boon if it were just a *bit* more fancy than plain-jane
completely-unstyled browser-default presentation. Would help
>Currently we enforce the GNOME font by added a style sheet part
>to the generated HTML before writing it into the widget. Your
>body style definition will overrule it.
Yes well, see above; Gecko does not seem to be accepting that?
Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>