Semantic MediaWiki

If I understand this correctly, this law - especially with the  
amendment proposed by the industry - is absulutely ridiculous!

This law only makes some kind of sense when interpreted in terms of  
"Any software that is suited to disable copyright mechanisms" or  
similar.

> Now, obviously, any wiki can be used to publish copyrighted material,

Sure, but if they would really take it that strict, they woult have  
to ban all eMail clients and servers too.
And FTP-Software. And the Apache web server aswell.
And telephones. Because you could still play a copyrighted song over  
a telephone.

This law is - in it's strict sense - practically unobeyable.

Or did I get something wrong there?

How is the common practice on laws like this in France?
Would Wiki devellopers really have to fear getting sued, as long as  
they don't include special DRM removal features?


Cheers - Heiko *uncomprehendingly shaking his head on the crazyness  
of laws like this and the world in general* %-)
--
Heiko Haller
Institut AIFB, Uni Karlsruhe (TH)
http://www.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/WBS/hha/

I'm not sure about this - Wikipedia has already a very powerfull mechanism
for eliminating copyright-abuse:

-- Peer-Review

If someone sees such a thing, he can mark it and solve the problem as fast
as sending an e-mail. Warnings by lawers are senseless, because a simple
delete of the article while marking it as copyright-abuse is cheap and easy.

True, it's not possible to avoid copyright-abuse at all - but the response
time to such things is very low. At least better than many other techniques.

MovGP0

> 
> If I understand this correctly, this law - especially with 
> the amendment proposed by the industry - is absulutely ridiculous!
> 
> This law only makes some kind of sense when interpreted in 
> terms of "Any software that is suited to disable copyright 
> mechanisms" or similar.
> 
> > Now, obviously, any wiki can be used to publish copyrighted 
> material,
> 
> Sure, but if they would really take it that strict, they 
> woult have to ban all eMail clients and servers too.
> And FTP-Software. And the Apache web server aswell.
> And telephones. Because you could still play a copyrighted 
> song over a telephone.
> 
> This law is - in it's strict sense - practically unobeyable.
> 
> Or did I get something wrong there?
> 
> How is the common practice on laws like this in France?
> Would Wiki devellopers really have to fear getting sued, as 
> long as they don't include special DRM removal features?
> 
> 
> Cheers - Heiko *uncomprehendingly shaking his head on the 
> crazyness of laws like this and the world in general* %-)
> --
> Heiko Haller
> Institut AIFB, Uni Karlsruhe (TH)
> http://www.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/WBS/hha/
> 
> 
> 
>

I fully agree with the various answers below. There certainly is no need to=
=20
expect that wiki users/developers/hosters will be sued, and it is certainly=
 a=20
stupid thing to do (the whole law, anyway). But it could be useful to some=
=20
people ...

So the question rather is: Is there any legal security, or do you rely on=20
people being "nice" to wikis? The question of whether copyright issues can =
be=20
resolved quickly in my understanding is not the point of the law. The point=
=20
seems to be that one has to take measures to prevent copyvios *in advance*=
=20
And this is not really possible for wikis, or is it?=20

Is there any expectation towards the concrete implementation of the law? Mi=
ght=20
it be declared void by some supreme court (does this work in France?), or=20
will it just come into effect without much practical consequences? I guess =
we=20
cannot do anything but wait and see anyway (well, I am not in France ... ;-=
).

Best regards,

Markus


On Saturday 10 December 2005 00:37, Johann Dirry wrote:
> I'm not sure about this - Wikipedia has already a very powerfull mechanism
> for eliminating copyright-abuse:
>
> -- Peer-Review
>
> If someone sees such a thing, he can mark it and solve the problem as fast
> as sending an e-mail. Warnings by lawers are senseless, because a simple
> delete of the article while marking it as copyright-abuse is cheap and
> easy.
>
> True, it's not possible to avoid copyright-abuse at all - but the response
> time to such things is very low. At least better than many other
> techniques.
>
> MovGP0
>
> > If I understand this correctly, this law - especially with
> > the amendment proposed by the industry - is absulutely ridiculous!
> >
> > This law only makes some kind of sense when interpreted in
> > terms of "Any software that is suited to disable copyright
> > mechanisms" or similar.
> >
> > > Now, obviously, any wiki can be used to publish copyrighted
> >
> > material,
> >
> > Sure, but if they would really take it that strict, they
> > woult have to ban all eMail clients and servers too.
> > And FTP-Software. And the Apache web server aswell.
> > And telephones. Because you could still play a copyrighted
> > song over a telephone.
> >
> > This law is - in it's strict sense - practically unobeyable.
> >
> > Or did I get something wrong there?
> >
> > How is the common practice on laws like this in France?
> > Would Wiki devellopers really have to fear getting sued, as
> > long as they don't include special DRM removal features?
> >
> >
> > Cheers - Heiko *uncomprehendingly shaking his head on the
> > crazyness of laws like this and the world in general* %-)
> > --
> > Heiko Haller
> > Institut AIFB, Uni Karlsruhe (TH)
> > http://www.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/WBS/hha/
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log
> files for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
> searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
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> _______________________________________________
> Semediawiki-user mailing list
> Semediawiki-user@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user

=2D-=20
Markus Kr=F6tzsch
Institute AIFB, University of Karlsruhe, D-76128 Karlsruhe
mak@...        phone +49 (0)721 608 7362
 http://www.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/WBS/     fax +49 (0)721 693  717

>The point seems to be that one has to take measures to prevent copyvios =
*in
advance* And this is not really possible=20
>for wikis, or is it?=20

A nice first solution to this problem would be a functionality that =
takes 3
- 10 random sequences of words of a sufficient length and make an =
automated
google query for hits. This would of course not detect infringements =
based
on offline work or such that is available for members only, but it would
already spot a great deal of abuse.

Martin

---------------------------
martin.hepp@..., phone: +43 512 507 6465
http://www.heppnetz.de / http://www.deri.org

-----Original Message-----
From: swikig-bounces@...
[mailto:swikig-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Markus =
Kr=F6tzsch
Sent: Samstag, 10. Dezember 2005 01:46
To: semediawiki-user@...
Cc: swikig@...; =
semediawiki-devel@...;
Johann Dirry
Subject: Re: [swikig] [Semediawiki-user] AW: [SMW-devel] Wiki's
becomingillegal in France?

I fully agree with the various answers below. There certainly is no need =
to
expect that wiki users/developers/hosters will be sued, and it is =
certainly
a stupid thing to do (the whole law, anyway). But it could be useful to =
some
people ...

So the question rather is: Is there any legal security, or do you rely =
on
people being "nice" to wikis? The question of whether copyright issues =
can
be resolved quickly in my understanding is not the point of the law.=20


Is there any expectation towards the concrete implementation of the law?
Might it be declared void by some supreme court (does this work in =
France?),
or will it just come into effect without much practical consequences? I
guess we cannot do anything but wait and see anyway (well, I am not in
France ... ;-).

Best regards,

Markus


On Saturday 10 December 2005 00:37, Johann Dirry wrote:
> I'm not sure about this - Wikipedia has already a very powerfull=20
> mechanism for eliminating copyright-abuse:
>
> -- Peer-Review
>
> If someone sees such a thing, he can mark it and solve the problem as=20
> fast as sending an e-mail. Warnings by lawers are senseless, because a =

> simple delete of the article while marking it as copyright-abuse is=20
> cheap and easy.
>
> True, it's not possible to avoid copyright-abuse at all - but the=20
> response time to such things is very low. At least better than many=20
> other techniques.
>
> MovGP0
>
> > If I understand this correctly, this law - especially with the=20
> > amendment proposed by the industry - is absulutely ridiculous!
> >
> > This law only makes some kind of sense when interpreted in terms of=20
> > "Any software that is suited to disable copyright mechanisms" or=20
> > similar.
> >
> > > Now, obviously, any wiki can be used to publish copyrighted
> >
> > material,
> >
> > Sure, but if they would really take it that strict, they woult have=20
> > to ban all eMail clients and servers too.
> > And FTP-Software. And the Apache web server aswell.
> > And telephones. Because you could still play a copyrighted song over =

> > a telephone.
> >
> > This law is - in it's strict sense - practically unobeyable.
> >
> > Or did I get something wrong there?
> >
> > How is the common practice on laws like this in France?
> > Would Wiki devellopers really have to fear getting sued, as long as=20
> > they don't include special DRM removal features?
> >
> >
> > Cheers - Heiko *uncomprehendingly shaking his head on the crazyness=20
> > of laws like this and the world in general* %-)
> > --
> > Heiko Haller
> > Institut AIFB, Uni Karlsruhe (TH)
> > http://www.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/WBS/hha/
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log =

> files for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that=20
> makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD
SPLUNK!
> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=3D7637&alloc_id=3D16865&op=3Dclick
> _______________________________________________
> Semediawiki-user mailing list
> Semediawiki-user@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user

--
Markus Kr=F6tzsch
Institute AIFB, University of Karlsruhe, D-76128 Karlsruhe
mak@...        phone +49 (0)721 608 7362
 http://www.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/WBS/     fax +49 (0)721 693  717