Direct Rendering Infrastructure

Sam Halliday wrote:
> hi there,
> 
> I have nvidia tnt and voodoo3000 cards. I have been
> using the nvidia one with 3d accelerated graphics with
> no problem... well except that i dont like running
> closed source code (i run gnu/linux from scratch). So
> i decided to get the latest xfree86, the cvs of dri
> and the cvs of glide3. I have managed to get dri for
> the tdfx to work, but the glide drivers are a mission
> and fail every time (segfaults everywhere), and anyway
> i cant get X to compile the glide support into
> libGL... i needed to download mesa and do it myself.
> 

now you are confusing me ;-)
what do you mean by "i got dri for tdfx to work"? what's the problem, if 
it does work?
also, you don't have to download or compile mesa separately, all the 
needed mesa-code to get accelerated 3d is included in the 
xserver-sources. also, i strongly advise against compiling glide3 
yourself, as several people have reported that it's a real pain in the 
ass. you can get precompiled glide3-libs that fit dri at dri.sf.net


> Now the thing that confuses me is this... i got dri
> working from the XFree86-4.2.1 sources... NOT the cvs
> of dri... is this mostly all synced into the main X
> tree now or what?
> 

every now and then the dri-sources get merged into the xf86 codebase, 
but dri-cvs will always be more up-to-date for this reason (although 
that probably doesn't matter much as there is not really a lot of 
ongoing tdfx-development anymore...)


> well, the thing is, i cant get the voodoo to work, and

the voodoo3 should work just fine for 2d and 3d. i had such a card 
myself until recently, and it always worked fine

make sure you run your server at 16 bpp (3d is only supported in 
16bit-mode for voodoo3 because of a hardware-limitation)

if you want to continue trying to get it to work, we need more info ( 
your /etc/X11/XF86Config-4, /var/log/XFree86.0.log, and exactly what 
drivers and kernel module you're using)



> i dont like the nvidia card. I want to get a card
> which has 2d AND 3d acceleration under XFree86
> supported by opened source drivers... which one is the
> BEST supported card?

There is pretty good support for the "old" radeon-cards (including 
7x00), and r200 (radeon 8500) support is also being done at the moment 
(not stable yet, at least for me)

i think matrox g400 cards are also quite well supported, and voodoo3 of 
course ;-)

if 3d-performance is not your main concern, i'd first try to get that 
voodoo to work, if you want more power i'd get a radeon card (8500 cards 
have become quite cheap lately, and are quite fast, but as i said, you 
might have to wait a while until the drivers get more mature)

> 
> thanks in advance!

hope this helps a bit

Stefan
> Sam
> PS: please CC responses to me, i have a small inbox
> and slow connection, so subscribing isn't an option :(

--- Stefan Lange <hoirkman@...> wrote:
> now you are confusing me ;-)
> what do you mean by "i got dri for tdfx to work"?
> what's the problem, if it does work?
i mean, i have dri working (the X log says it has been
loaded), but NOT the glide component... so i think im
gettign 2d but not 3d acceleration. for example, i
only get ~150fps on the glgears benchmark.

> also, you don't have to download or compile mesa
> separately, all the needed mesa-code to get
> accelerated 3d is included in the xserver-sources.
i know... but if i run `ldd libGL.so` on the libs
built with X, then libglide3.so isn't linked in... but
if i do this on the Mesa released libs, an ldd reveals
a link to the glide libs... in my XFree86-4.2.1
host.def i have explicitly specified #define
WithGlide3 YES

> also, i strongly advise against compiling glide3 
> yourself, as several people have reported that it's
> a real pain in the ass.
it is! but i got it done eventually. i run LFS so
compiling dodgy code is second nature to me... you'd
be surprised how many packages are in
debian/redhat/mandrake that you would never have
suspected to have been such a mission to compile! (but
having said this, i did also try pre-built binaries
just to check ;))

my problem is that every time i run anything which is
accessing glide i get a segfault something like...
=====
gd error (glide): gd error (glide): grSstSelect: 
non-existent SSTgd error (glide): grSstSelect: 
non-existent SSTSegmentation fault
=====
i played with the code a little to get a little
debugging, but i still cant track down exactly what is
causing the problem. the function which prints
"grSstSelect:  non-existent SST" doesnt actually cause
the segfault, so it may be unrelated. But i definetly
have a voodoo3000, so i dont see why this is
happenning. I would report this to the glide mailing
list... but i cant find one!! on sourceforge they
havnt even released any files!

> > well, the thing is, i cant get the voodoo to work,
> the voodoo3 should work just fine for 2d and 3d. i
> had such a card myself until recently, and it
> always worked fine
i would like to hear how you got it to work! but i
have read just about every doc out there on the
subject... im pretty sure its a glide problem. (and
plus i cant get X to compile in the glide stuff)

> make sure you run your server at 16 bpp (3d is only
> supported in 
> 16bit-mode for voodoo3 because of a
> hardware-limitation)
yup.. i definitly am running in 16 bit mode, the X log
says dri isnt supported if i use anything else.

> if you want to continue trying to get it to work, we
> need more info ( 
> your /etc/X11/XF86Config-4, /var/log/XFree86.0.log,
> and exactly what 
> drivers and kernel module you're using)
well, i can email these to anyone willing to look into
this (i wont email the list directly incase i piss
someone off ;)). I have linux-2.4.19 and i have dri
support built in, and i have the tdfx module (both
kernel and XFree-4.2.1 modules) i have a VIA
motherboard chipset, so i have also included that in
my agpcart module details.

> if 3d-performance is not your main concern, i'd
> first try to get that voodoo to work
no no, 3d stuff IS my main concern... thats why i'm so
annoyed that i have the 2d dri working on my voodoo,
but not in 3d.

> i'd get a radeon card (8500 cards 
> have become quite cheap lately, and are quite fast,
> but as i said, you might have to wait a while until
> the drivers get more mature)
hmm, how long do you think? and more importantly, how
long until they are merged into the main X tree...
btw, which is the best 3d supported card in the main X
tree, without having to get anything extra such as
glide?

> hope this helps a bit
it has, thanks! i have switched over to the nvidia
card for now, but if anyone has any more light to shed
on this matter, i wouldnt object to reinserting my
3dfx card and having another go at getting the 3d
stuff to work.

thanks again!
PS: please CC responses to me, i have a small inbox
and slow connection, so subscribing isn't an option :(

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On Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:51:01 +0100 (BST)
Sam Halliday <fommil@...> wrote:

>  --- Stefan Lange <hoirkman@...> wrote:
> > now you are confusing me ;-)
> > what do you mean by "i got dri for tdfx to work"?
> > what's the problem, if it does work?
> i mean, i have dri working (the X log says it has been
> loaded), but NOT the glide component... so i think im
> gettign 2d but not 3d acceleration. for example, i
> only get ~150fps on the glgears benchmark.

With hardware accell you would actually get less since the tdfx dri
driver synchronizes itself with the vertical retrace. So the max
framerate will be your vertical refresh rate.

> > also, you don't have to download or compile mesa
> > separately, all the needed mesa-code to get
> > accelerated 3d is included in the xserver-sources.
> i know... but if i run `ldd libGL.so` on the libs
> built with X, then libglide3.so isn't linked in... but
> if i do this on the Mesa released libs, an ldd reveals
> a link to the glide libs... in my XFree86-4.2.1
> host.def i have explicitly specified #define
> WithGlide3 YES

glide should not be linked to libGL.so since people with other graphics
cards don't want to install glide. It is linked to
/usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/tdfx_dri.so which is loaded dynamically by
libGL.so on a Voodoo card.

> > also, i strongly advise against compiling glide3 
> > yourself, as several people have reported that it's
> > a real pain in the ass.
> it is! but i got it done eventually. i run LFS so
> compiling dodgy code is second nature to me... you'd
> be surprised how many packages are in
> debian/redhat/mandrake that you would never have
> suspected to have been such a mission to compile! (but
> having said this, i did also try pre-built binaries
> just to check ;))
> 
> my problem is that every time i run anything which is
> accessing glide i get a segfault something like...
> =====
> gd error (glide): gd error (glide): grSstSelect: 
> non-existent SSTgd error (glide): grSstSelect: 
> non-existent SSTSegmentation fault
> =====
> i played with the code a little to get a little
> debugging, but i still cant track down exactly what is
> causing the problem. the function which prints
> "grSstSelect:  non-existent SST" doesnt actually cause
> the segfault, so it may be unrelated. But i definetly
> have a voodoo3000, so i dont see why this is
> happenning. I would report this to the glide mailing
> list... but i cant find one!! on sourceforge they
> havnt even released any files!

I havn't seen this problem with my brother's Voodoo3 3000. On his Debian
Woody I installed libglide2 which worked fine (surprisingly as
tdfx_dri.so is linked against libglide3). The package description of
libglide3 mentions that you need some extra kernel module. I'm not sure
whether this is the DRM kernel module or something else.

> > > well, the thing is, i cant get the voodoo to work,
> > the voodoo3 should work just fine for 2d and 3d. i
> > had such a card myself until recently, and it
> > always worked fine
> i would like to hear how you got it to work! but i
> have read just about every doc out there on the
> subject... im pretty sure its a glide problem. (and
> plus i cant get X to compile in the glide stuff)
> 
> > make sure you run your server at 16 bpp (3d is only
> > supported in 
> > 16bit-mode for voodoo3 because of a
> > hardware-limitation)
> yup.. i definitly am running in 16 bit mode, the X log
> says dri isnt supported if i use anything else.
> 
> > if you want to continue trying to get it to work, we
> > need more info ( 
> > your /etc/X11/XF86Config-4, /var/log/XFree86.0.log,
> > and exactly what 
> > drivers and kernel module you're using)
> well, i can email these to anyone willing to look into
> this (i wont email the list directly incase i piss
> someone off ;)). I have linux-2.4.19 and i have dri
> support built in, and i have the tdfx module (both
> kernel and XFree-4.2.1 modules) i have a VIA
> motherboard chipset, so i have also included that in
> my agpcart module details.

The Xfree kernel module (tdfx.o) should replace the original kernel
module. You can't have them both.

> 
> > if 3d-performance is not your main concern, i'd
> > first try to get that voodoo to work
> no no, 3d stuff IS my main concern... thats why i'm so
> annoyed that i have the 2d dri working on my voodoo,
> but not in 3d.

Once it works framerates are really nice :)

Bye,
   Felix

               __\|/__    ___     ___     ___
__Tschüß_______\_6 6_/___/__ \___/__ \___/___\___You can do anything,___
_____Felix_______\Ä/\ \_____\ \_____\ \______U___just not everything____
  fxkuehl@...    >o<__/   \___/   \___/        at the same time!

--- Felix Kühling <fxkuehl@...> wrote:
> glide should not be linked to libGL.so since people
> with other graphics
> cards don't want to install glide. It is linked to
> /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/tdfx_dri.so which is
> loaded dynamically by
> libGL.so on a Voodoo card.
well, if i compile mesa it IS linked in...
dynamically. libGL chooses only to load it if MESA_FX
or something of the like is set to enable. this means
you can use libGL.so even if you remove glide from
your system.

> I havn't seen this problem with my brother's Voodoo3
> 3000. On his Debian
> Woody I installed libglide2 which worked fine
> (surprisingly as
> tdfx_dri.so is linked against libglide3). The
> package description of
> libglide3 mentions that you need some extra kernel
> module. I'm not sure
> whether this is the DRM kernel module or something
> else.
im sure it is, apart from the framebuffer there is
only one 3dfx module.

> The Xfree kernel module (tdfx.o) should replace the
> original kernel module. You can't have them both.
are you sure about that? are they not one and the
same? i am using linux-2.4.19, so everything should
have been synched by this stage. surely the stock
tdfx.o from linux-2.4.19 is good enough!

cheers,
Sam
PS: please CC responses to me

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You may find that the DRI glide3 works much better than the origional 
3dfx glide 2/3.

My MESA didnt work until i installed this:

http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/contribs71/Glide-V3-DRI-3.10-2mdk.i586.html 


It is compiled for MDK, but should work fine in all RPM distros.

--- Eric <ericjwill@...> wrote:
> You may find that the DRI glide3 works much better
> than the origional 3dfx glide 2/3.
thanks eric.. but i cant get glide to work AT ALL! i
keep getting a segfault. I also checked and seen if my
tdfx_dri.o was linked to glide, and it ISNT!! (which
is probably a good thing if i cant get glide apps to
work) even though i told X to compile in support for
glide3. it is installed in /usr/lib and the headers in
/usr/include/glide3.. all the defaults!

> My MESA didnt work until i installed this:
>
http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/contribs71/Glide-V3-DRI-3.10-2mdk.i586.html
> It is compiled for MDK, but should work fine in all
> RPM distros.
err... thanks, but i use Linux from Scratch, no rpms
:D... i know i can get the SRPM of this, but anyone
know where the official glide stuff is beign
maintained? i have a cvs from sourceforge, but it
doesnt look liek much is goign on there and they have
never released any files. where does this DRI glide
come from???

thanking you all in advance,
Sam
PS: please CC responses to me

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