Webware for Python

Whoa, that is quite the rant.  Although I think he's wrong about the 90% and I 
don't agree with splitting them off, he does have a point.  

When I was a beginning webware user it wasn't immediately clear that WebKit 
was the core and could be used independently. Frankly, the alpha quality 
stuff like UserKit *was* a turn-off.  This stuff isn't an issue to developers 
that are already familiar with and using Webware, but it is a significant one 
for those evaluating it or trying to convince the rest of their team to use 
it.  A few prominent notices in the docs stating that 'WebKit is the core, 
can be used independently, and has been tested most thouroughly' would go a 
long way to countering misconceptions about relationships between the kits.

Anyway, Chuck, you know my thoughts about the naming scheme and the directory 
layout so I'll leave it at that ...

Cheers,
Tavis

On Friday 28 February 2003 11:13, Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
> On Wednesday 31 December 1969 04:00 pm, James R. Phillips wrote:
> > > At the end of the survey you can see the results.
> >
> > I saw a request for a "Powered by Webware" logo, I could
> > really use something like that on my home page.  You can
> > see at http://zunzun.com I made my own lame-o one.
> >
> > BTW, someone apparently found the survey an excellent
> > vehicle for venting/ranting.  Whew!
>
> It amazes me. Here's the rant:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Get rid of the all the damn Kit's!!! 90% of users just use WebKit.
> [snip]
> it's a complete turn off. Spin them off into separate modules that are
> downloadable plug-ins for the core WebKit...PLEASE!!!
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> What amazes me is that they *are* separate modules but we still get a
> rant like this. You don't have to embrace MiddleKit, UserKit, etc. out
> of the box. In fact, you don't have to embrace WebKit; I know someone
> who was using MiddleKit with GUIs and doing no web dev.
>
> AND they're not part of "core" WebKit. Hence the different directories!
>
> What's also funny is that if we didn't include the additional packages
> someone else would bitch that we didn't.   :-)
>
> In any case, Webware *is* modular. The existence of some additional
> directories in the distro is *not* a burden.
>
> Also the "90%...just use WebKit" doesn't match the survey results which
> record what people are using!  :-)

Re: the rant about kits (was Re: [Webware-discuss] Re: Webware-discuss digest) From: Tom von Schwerdtner <tvon@et...> - 2003-03-01 19:46 Attachments: Message as HTML      On Sat, 2003-03-01 at 13:45, Tavis Rudd wrote: > Whoa, that is quite the rant. Although I think he's wrong about the 90% = and I=20 > don't agree with splitting them off, he does have a point. =20 >=20 > When I was a beginning webware user it wasn't immediately clear that WebK= it=20 > was the core and could be used independently. Frankly, the alpha quality=20 > stuff like UserKit *was* a turn-off. This stuff isn't an issue to develo= pers=20 > that are already familiar with and using Webware, but it is a significant= one=20 > for those evaluating it or trying to convince the rest of their team to u= se=20 > it. A few prominent notices in the docs stating that 'WebKit is the core= ,=20 > can be used independently, and has been tested most thouroughly' would go= a=20 > long way to countering misconceptions about relationships between the kit= s. I agree. As someone who is very new to Webware (1-2 weeks since I learned about it) I did stumble over the kit layout a bit. As a basis for comparison I have used Tomcat before and found it easier to understand on a conceptual level. I think it has something to do with the way Webware is introduced or the naming convention. For example, the *kit naming convention does imply a level of equality that is misleading.=20 In short, I think WebKit should be renamed and presented separately from the other "modules". While I understand that Webware is a suite of tools, I think WebKit is the key "product" in the suite that most people will be interested in, and the other *kit's are generally for enhancing WebKit (though very capable of being used seperately, I do not see this is the most common situation). To clarify, I currently see Webware a bit like this (I'm probably way off on some of this): WebKit: Python Application Server MiddleKit: Object Abstraction Layer (I guess) <insert name here>Kit: <insert name here> handling utilities However, I do not feel the site/docs/whatever presents it quite this way. There are notes such as "Don't know where to start? Try WebKit", but I do not believe that portrays things accurately. Am I making any sense here? [Note: As I said I am new to Webware. I could still be wrong about a great many things.] -Tom

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