On Tue, 2002-10-22 at 04:52, Frank Barknecht wrote:
> Ian Bicking hat gesagt: // Ian Bicking wrote:
> > In my own Wiki, I tried to create a Wiki markup that was translatable to
> > HTML and back again -- so that the Wiki markup wasn't the canonical
> > representation, the HTML was. There were some bugs in it (with lists, I
> > think) -- you can see a bit more at http://wiki.colorstudy.com -- but it
> > seemed like something of a beginning.
> I know your Wiki a bit, but unfortunately I couldn't install it
> correctly. There were some errors with modules not found, that I
> could solve somehow with symbolic links like "Local -> lib/Local", I
> don't remember the details. But then I didn't dig deeper, because on
> my webspace I don't have the MySQL Python module and the Python devel
> packages neither: my webmaster is a Perl guy :(
The database is there mostly to index metadata, but I can understand the
difficulty -- though at the same time MySQL is very common nowadays (and
in this case you're just missing MySQLdb). Also, I don't know if anyone
else has actually tried to set that Wiki up, and I'm not surprised that
the archive wasn't complete :-/
> That's why I looked for a simple, DB-less solution. I'm actually not
> too happy with PyDiddy, because everything is so tied up into one
> class. I like your modular, more OO'ish approach more, it's easier to
> extend. I do like the name of my Wiki more, of course :)
When I was first thinking about the idea, I was considering porting an
existing Wiki as well. I only really looked at MoinMoin, but I remember
feeling it wasn't right for Webware. I think the CGI nature made it
feel much more imperative, without as much attention to good
abstractions -- well, CGI being a part, and programming style being
Ultimately I wanted most of the real logic to be centralized in once
class, but without logic for editing interfaces, permissions, etc. So
one object that holds the abstract representation, and then the
different servlets that throw it out to the user and get back commands.
> > My interest in Wikis has been revived lately, and I'm particularly
> > interested in using them as the basis for a CMS system. I'd like to see
> > the richness of something like MoinMoin, in with the added functionality
> > being more encapsulated... instead of creating an extensible Wiki
> > language, creating a richer namespace where all pages aren't Wiki-style
> > pages (e.g., to create a comment board, maybe you'd "transclude" a
> > another page, and that target page would be plugged into a comment
> > module). As a CMS, of course, you'd also have to offer some sort of
> > hardening, templates, and all sorts of other features... but while those
> > are all work, they all seem pretty straight-forward.
> This sounds very interesting, although there might be some fundamental
> differences between a Wiki and a CMS. For example in a CMS you have a
> Workflow and Delayed Publishing, something you could of course build
> into a Wiki, but it would somehow be against the whole idea of a Wiki.
> Then in a CMS you need (invisible) meta information, while in a Wiki
> the only meta information is always visible in the form of embedded
Well, a CMS is a pretty vague notion... Zope is one CMS, but even
blogger is a simple sort of CMS.
But a CMS is more a target than a goal... a direction to move in.
Ultimately, the notion of a Wiki can intersect with a lot of other
concepts on the web. It's not entirely independent -- but it's a
certain perspective you can start with.
> But I think, that a Wiki could form a great demonstration app for
> Webware in general. Webware is something, that is easily explained to
> developers, but if a normal user installs Webware, there is nothing to
> see right away. Is this a CMS, how do I use it? - he might ask, but
> other than the Example pages there is nothing to see. Maybe Webware
> should come with a Wiki or something similar right from the start?
Yes, a simple Wiki would make a very good demonstration application.
Looking at your code, it's pretty small (I guess all the code is
encapsulated just in 600 lines in one file) -- though I think to be a
good example it would have to be factored into more pages... but maybe
not... PyDiddy really is very small.
I would definitely support including something like directly in the