Yea ! Someone else is on the line :)
First off I'd like to re-iterate (or clarify) I have absolutely no ill-will
or expectations towards the creators of BeanShell ...
I use the word "abandoned" possibly too casually. Noone has the
responsibility to keep working on software just because they created it.
BeanShell is a fantastic piece of work. I'd just like to see it improved a
little, mainly bug fixes.
It just appears that the "ball has been dropped" which means if we want
BeanShell to be a real viable thing someone has to "pick up the ball" and go
with it. I am happy to do a small part. That in no way is a disparagement
of how far the ball has been run so far ...
Thanks for mentioning the JSR. I've been watching that and was "hopeful"
that it meant renewed interest in BeanShell. Alas from what I can tell,
from afar, is that THAT ball has been dropped as well. The last work on
that project seems to be 2 years ago.
There is mention of a beanshell 0.5b but I certainly cant find it anywhere,
numerous requests on this list have asked for it to no avail.
So my question is ... how to proceed ? Can I just "jump in" and start
checking things into CVS ? Do I have the rights ?
Who is "in control" of the sourceforge repository ? Will they be pissed off
? Who hands out checkin rights ?
Who is "in control" of the BeanShell home page ? How do we get new releases
added to that ? Or do we start our own Wikki ? Our own sourceforge
repository ?
I don't want to piss anyone off, and I don't want to imply I'm unhappy with
the great work to date, I just would like to improve on it !
Maybe the current maintainers might take a minute to post here to give
suggestions ... ?
I admit ignorance on the whole thing ... Please enlighten me !
Suggestions greatly welcome !
-David Lee
-----------------------------------------------------------
David A. Lee
dlee@...
http://www.calldei.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Wright" <pdoubleya@...>
To: <beanshell-users@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Beanshell-users] The sad state of Java scripting
> Just as an interested observer--
>
> I don't know what the official maintainers are up to, but the creator
> of BeanShell and others have started a JSR for BeanShell as an
> officially supported JVM language
> (http://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=274), and others in the Java
> community have taken notice of that. I don't know if they've started
> or what the status is.
>
> As for the other comments--I'm more in agreement with David in the
> do-it-yourself approach. I'm a participant on three FOSS projects. All
> of them I've contributed a chunk of personal time to in the last few
> years, but the truth is that there are many more people asking for
> features and bug fixes than there are people contributing. In fact,
> most of the time we're lucky just to get well-defined bugs and
> follow-up on patches we've made.
>
> The best way for me to understand this is: open-source doesn't mean
> you will get a perfect piece of software or that you'll get people
> fixing bugs for you. It means that someone else has decided to share
> their work and effort with you for your benefit. What you do with that
> is up to you. I used to be really irritated by projects that were
> unresponsive to "the community" (people like me), but now being on the
> other side of the equation I understand it better. I just spent all of
> yesterday, Saturday--probably a good 12 hours--implementing some
> features on one of these FOSS projects. There is no end in sight. I
> wish we had more contributors.
>
> Rhino, Groovy and JRuby appear to be the "dynamic" languages with the
> most official support or backing of some kind on the JVM. Rhino is
> actually quite an old (long-running) project. There are other more
> static languages (Scala and CAL come to mind) which are also active
> developer but where the languages are less dynamic. You have a range
> of choices.
>
> If either of you do have time to work on BeanShell, I'd love to see your
> work.
>
> This is not meant to lecture either of you, but rather to share my
> experience as someone who'd been on both sides of projects like
> these. I can understand if you get annoyed with me, but that's really
> not my intent.
>
>
> Best regards
> Patrick
>
> On 4/29/07, David A. Lee <dlee@...> wrote:
>> I feel your pain. I too am frustrated with the state of affairs.
>> Fortunately for me, the bugs in BeanShell happen to be ones I can work
>> around, but I the same experience ... A great application which is "not
>> quite there" and no support.
>> Is there a way we as a community can address this ? Clearly the author
>> has
>> abandoned BeanShell, but can we pick up where he left off ?
>> The source is entirely public to my knowlege, but I have not read the
>> license in detail. Can we officially "open source" this project ?
>> What would that take? Maybe it is already ? I wouldnt mind digging in
>> and
>> fixing a few bugs. If we could get a few people to do this we could get
>> it
>> back on track again. We'd probably have to re-host it and possibly
>> ren-name it since I havent seen even a single response from the current
>> sourceforge maintainers whoever they are. Maybe even the act of support
>> by
>> the community might breath new life back into the originators ?
>> We can sit around and complain all we like or we can take things into our
>> own hands.
>> Anyone up for this ?
>>
>> I really dont want to drop BeanShell, I've already integrated it into my
>> application and its a fantastic solution to what I need.
>> Unfortuantely it has no future as far as I can tell and at some point I
>> will
>> be forced to drop it.
>>
>> -David Lee
>> -----------------------------------------------------------
>> David A. Lee
>> dlee@...
>> http://www.calldei.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > This post is an expression of frustration. There ought to be a decent
>> > way
>> > to
>> > script Java by now, but there isn't.
>> >
>> > I have been using BeanShell for years and I kept hoping that the author
>> > would show some enthusiasm and start fixing bugs. This hasn't
>> > happened.
>> > BeanShell is an unsupported product with close to 200 outstanding bugs.
>> > When users ask about BeanShell's status, they are ignored.
>> >
>> > http://www.nabble.com/Question-regarding-Beanshell%27s-status-tf3372306.html
>> >
>> > BeanShell should not be depended on in a serious application.
>> >
>> > Next I tried Pnuts. This is an excellent piece of software that seems
>> > bug-free. But since I do not want to be stuck with another unsupported
>> > product, I filed bugs on some minor web site and documentation issues.
>> > There has been no response to this. Next I emailed the mailing list to
>> > ask
>> > about the status of the project, and again, no response. No matter how
>> > good
>> > Pnuts is, I can't use an unsupported product.
>> >
>> > Next came Groovy. I was reluctant to try this because big languages
>> > aren't
>> > my style. I like simplicity. My fears have proven correct so far
>> > because
>> > I
>> > can't get simple things to work. To start with, all I want to do is to
>> > run
>> > a simple script by invoking Java directly, meaning without shell
>> > scripts.
>> > This is trivial to do with BeanShell or Pnuts, but apparently not with
>> > Groovy.
>> >
>> > http://www.nabble.com/running-Groovy-from-java-command-line-tf3660571.html
>> >
>> > Finding how to do simple things from the web site is difficult because
>> > the
>> > site stresses all the groovy new features, which don't interest me.
>> >
>> > As of now, Groovy is the only viable candidate, if I can get it to
>> > work.
>> > If
>> > anyone has any other suggestions for me, I would be glad to try them.
>> >
>> > --
>> > View this message in context:
>> > http://www.nabble.com/The-sad-state-of-Java-scripting-tf3664576.html#a10239272
>> > Sent from the BeanShell - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> >
>> >
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