The Translation Project

On 27/08/2007, at 3:13 AM, Benno Schulenberg wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> Years ago Fran=C3=A7ois Pinard created the domain 'error' as a kind of
> compendium, presumably to be used by each team to coordinate the
> translation of identical strings.  Yesterday I've renamed this
> domain to 'Compendium--errors', to better show its function:
> http://translationproject.org/domain/Compendium--errors.html

I had no idea this existed! :o
>
> The compendium is old, though: some of its strings do not occur in
> any POT file any more.  Also, it doesn't really function as a
> compendium: many of its strings only occur in libc.
>
> Now I would like to know what you think about the following:
>
> 1) Should the TP store multiple compendia (for different categories
> of packages, maybe) or just a single compendium?  Or maybe no
> compendium at all and leave it to the teams?
>
> 2) Should a compendium contain only messages that occur in more than
> one of the current POT files, or also singular strings that seem
> generally useful?
>
> 3) Who is willing to construct and maintain such a compendium?
>

Does this mean we would maintain a compendium for each language team, =20=

with both English and the team language for each string?

It would be useful if we could host our own compendia: I can't see =20
myself creating a separate compendium for the TP, because it takes me =20=

enough time to maintain my all-projects compendium (now at 27 MB).

from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh=C3=B3m =
=20
Vi=E1=BB=87t h=C3=B3a ph=E1=BA=A7n m=E1=BB=81m t=E1=BB=B1 do)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN

On 30/07/2007, at 2:25 AM, Christian Rose wrote:

> As an employee, I can choose whether I want to accept that policy and
> work for you, or not. If you pay me well enough, I might accept most
> policy things (perhaps even wearing a tie all day long).

We are definitely not having a TP tie. A funny hat, maybe. Or a T-shirt?

T(ranslation) P(roject)
Talk to the world

from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh=C3=B3m =
=20
Vi=E1=BB=87t h=C3=B3a ph=E1=BA=A7n m=E1=BB=81m t=E1=BB=B1 do)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN

Sorry I haven't caught up with all this sooner.

On 31/07/2007, at 6:56 AM, G=C3=B6ran Uddeborg wrote:

>> In my opinion translators should not be allowed to be hard to reach.
>
> Having the address obfuscated makes him/her a bit harder to reach.
> But that is ok then?

Can we use a Javascript link? Then it would still be one click, but =20
the spam spiders wouldn't grab our addresses. It is important to make =20=

it as easy as possible for people to get in touch with us, especially =20=

anyone who is considering volunteering!

Since I don't have enough brain left to code anymore, I find this =20
page very useful for creating such links (for Web or MediaWiki):

http://www.mways.co.uk/prog/hidemail.php

so I keep a list of email addresses I need to publish on Web or Wiki =20
pages, converted using that page. If you can use this kind of =20
obfuscation, here is my email address (link text is my full name):

<script language=3D"JavaScript">
document.write('<a hre'+'f=3D"ma'+'ilto'+':'+'%63%6c%79%74%69%65%40%72%=20=

69%76%65%72%6c%61%6e%64%2e%6e%65%74%2e%61%=20
75">&#67;&#108;&#121;&#116;&#105;&#101;&#32;&#83;&#105;&#100;&#100;&#97;=20=

&#108;&#108;<\/a>');
</script>

Note: that page's functions don't work for accented Vietnamese =20
characters, so I suspect they don't support UTF-8. :(

from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh=C3=B3m =
=20
Vi=E1=BB=87t h=C3=B3a ph=E1=BA=A7n m=E1=BB=81m t=E1=BB=B1 do)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN

Another not-exactly-deadly-serious response...

On 31/07/2007, at 6:57 AM, Martin v. L=C3=B6wis wrote:

>> Okay, your other argument is that such a link is like a reward for
>> the translator.  But what about the translators who don't have a
>> link (and don't even want a link), are they not rewarded?  Why
>> should some translators be extra rewarded?
>
> Who says these others should not be rewarded? What kind of reward
> would they like to get? It might be possible to arrange it.

Chocolate? :D

from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh=C3=B3m =
=20
Vi=E1=BB=87t h=C3=B3a ph=E1=BA=A7n m=E1=BB=81m t=E1=BB=B1 do)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN

Clytie Siddall <clytie@...> writes:

> On 30/07/2007, at 2:25 AM, Christian Rose wrote:
>
>> As an employee, I can choose whether I want to accept that policy and
>> work for you, or not. If you pay me well enough, I might accept most
>> policy things (perhaps even wearing a tie all day long).
>
> We are definitely not having a TP tie. A funny hat, maybe. Or a T-shirt?
>
> T(ranslation) P(roject)
> Talk to the world

Talk to the People--but I do not know how this sounds to an English
ear...

-- 
Karl Eichwalder
R&D / Documentation

SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg)

Clytie Siddall wrote:
> Sorry I haven't caught up with all this sooner.
> 
> On 31/07/2007, at 6:56 AM, Göran Uddeborg wrote:
> 
>>> In my opinion translators should not be allowed to be hard to reach.
>>
>> Having the address obfuscated makes him/her a bit harder to reach.
>> But that is ok then?
> 
> Can we use a Javascript link? Then it would still be one click, but the 
> spam spiders wouldn't grab our addresses. It is important to make it as 
> easy as possible for people to get in touch with us, especially anyone 
> who is considering volunteering!

Javascript email obfuscation is no real barrier to spammers.
There's at least one free program available that will harvest
any javascript-obfuscated email addresses from a webpage, by
making use of the Internet Explorer rendering engine. I don't
recall it's name, but we removed our javascript-based email
obfuscation in 2004, once we became aware of the tool(and
quickly proved that it worked on our method(which did more
that just use HTML numeric entities)). We switched to presenting
email addresses as images(along with keeping our Contact page).

-- 
Dave Patton

Degree Confluence Project:
Canadian Coordinator
Technical Coordinator
http://www.confluence.org/

FOSS4G2007:
Workshop Committee
Conference Committee
http://www.foss4g2007.org/

Personal website:
Maps, GPS, etc.
http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/

Clytie Siddall wrote:
> Now I think about it (duh), my team would really like to have our
> projects page listed wherever possible. [...] I'd much rather
> display that, than a personal website. How about a Team Website
> field instead?

This possibility already exists.  In the first little table on each 
team site, you can have any info or links displayed that you like.  
(Well, within reason -- no links to chocolate factories! :)

> Meanwhile, please use
> "http://vnoss.net/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=projects:l10n"
> as my website address: that's our project page.

Added to the top table.  Your personal website link is unchanged.
(That team site needs an update, by the way: it still points to 
umontreal as the TP site.)

> I am happy for my email address to be accessible, as long as it
> is obfuscated. I particularly like it being possible for the
> viewer to click on the translator's name in the file list, to
> make contact, not having to scroll right up to the top again,

Well, if you give up the personal website link, your name will have 
an (obfuscated) mailto tag everywhere.  (Where your name is listed 
as team leader, it is shown in cleartext, as leaders should be more 
easily reachable.)  If you give in, I will send you two bars of the 
finest Verkade 76% black chocolate.  :)

Benno

Clytie Siddall wrote:
> On 31/07/2007, at 6:56 AM, Göran Uddeborg wrote:
> > Having the address obfuscated makes him/her a bit harder to
> > reach. But that is ok then?
>
> Can we use a Javascript link? Then it would still be one click,
> but the spam spiders wouldn't grab our addresses. It is important
> to make it as easy as possible for people to get in touch with
> us, especially anyone who is considering volunteering!

Using Javascript is a bad idea, in my opinion.  I for one always 
surf with it switched off (enabled only for two specific sites).  
Accessiblity guidelines also advice against it:
http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT-TECHS/#tech-scripts

So the (obfuscated) mailto tags will have to stay.  It might be 
possible to overlay them with "cleartext" tags when Javascript is 
enabled, but if this is so, I am not the one who will implement it.

Benno

On 06/08/2007, at 6:12 PM, Karl Eichwalder wrote:

> Clytie Siddall <clytie@...> writes:
>
>> On 30/07/2007, at 2:25 AM, Christian Rose wrote:
>>
>>> As an employee, I can choose whether I want to accept that policy =20=

>>> and
>>> work for you, or not. If you pay me well enough, I might accept most
>>> policy things (perhaps even wearing a tie all day long).
>>
>> We are definitely not having a TP tie. A funny hat, maybe. Or a T-=20
>> shirt?
>>
>> T(ranslation) P(roject)
>> Talk to the world
>
> Talk to the People--but I do not know how this sounds to an English
> ear...

Not as general, unfortunately. Unless you have a global view, =20
"people" can be a very limited group. :S

from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh=C3=B3m =
=20
Vi=E1=BB=87t h=C3=B3a ph=E1=BA=A7n m=E1=BB=81m t=E1=BB=B1 do)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN

Hi again :)

Thanks for the info on Javascript obfuscation. I didn't know it =20
wasn't effective anymore. I'll probably go on using it myself, since =20
I don't have any other way of hiding addresses.

On 07/08/2007, at 5:26 AM, Benno Schulenberg wrote:

> Clytie Siddall wrote:
>> Now I think about it (duh), my team would really like to have our
>> projects page listed wherever possible. [...] I'd much rather
>> display that, than a personal website. How about a Team Website
>> field instead?
>
> This possibility already exists.  In the first little table on each
> team site, you can have any info or links displayed that you like.
> (Well, within reason -- no links to chocolate factories! :)

Drat. ;)

I don't suppose Cadbury really need the advertizement...

Thanks, Benno. It's good to have that link there.
>
>> Meanwhile, please use
>> "http://vnoss.net/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=3Dprojects:l10n"
>> as my website address: that's our project page.
>
> Added to the top table.  Your personal website link is unchanged.
> (That team site needs an update, by the way: it still points to
> umontreal as the TP site.)

Thanks for the reminder. I've just updated the links.
>
>> I am happy for my email address to be accessible, as long as it
>> is obfuscated. I particularly like it being possible for the
>> viewer to click on the translator's name in the file list, to
>> make contact, not having to scroll right up to the top again,
>
> Well, if you give up the personal website link, your name will have
> an (obfuscated) mailto tag everywhere.  (Where your name is listed
> as team leader, it is shown in cleartext, as leaders should be more
> easily reachable.)  If you give in, I will send you two bars of the
> finest Verkade 76% black chocolate.  :)

Bribery and corruption. :D

I have no personal investment in the personal website link: I tend to =20=

fill in any fields that are available, as long as the information =20
requested isn't private. I love surveys with tick-boxes. Radio =20
buttons aren't as much fun, for some reason. But I digress...

Please remove the website link if you think it is a good idea. =20
Chocolate or no chocolate (this is the height of self-abnegation!!).

from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh=C3=B3m =
=20
Vi=E1=BB=87t h=C3=B3a ph=E1=BA=A7n m=E1=BB=81m t=E1=BB=B1 do)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN

Clytie Siddall wrote:
> Please remove the website link if you think it is a good idea.

Done.

> Chocolate or no chocolate (this is the height of
> self-abnegation!!).

We stand in awe... all this work, and still she doesn't allow 
herself even a bar of chocolate.

:)

Cheers and regards,

Benno

On 08/08/2007, at 2:41 AM, Benno Schulenberg wrote:

> Clytie Siddall wrote:
>> Please remove the website link if you think it is a good idea.
>
> Done.
>
>> Chocolate or no chocolate (this is the height of
>> self-abnegation!!).
>
> We stand in awe... all this work, and still she doesn't allow
> herself even a bar of chocolate.
>
> :)
>
Not true, I'm afraid. I'm a devoted supporter of good chocolate. :D

(I really like the reports that chocolate is actually good for you!)

from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nh=C3=B3m =
=20
Vi=E1=BB=87t h=C3=B3a ph=E1=BA=A7n m=E1=BB=81m t=E1=BB=B1 do)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN