+5 (counting the gary's answers ;))
On 25/09/08 03:58, Gary Cunningham-Lee wrote:
> Hi,
>
> WEBER Patrice wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> +1 to Sylvie's comment.
>>
>> Gary, I'm against your commit for two main reasons:
>> - you broke official themes (like tikinewt & darkroom),
>> - IMO, we need a CSS selector for each button
>>
> - I don't consider the occasional icon having a shadow constituting a
> broken theme (were other problems caused that I'm not aware of?), but
> can accept that we have different ideas of what a broken theme is. ;-)
> - Having a CSS selector for each button is fine with me, so the question
> is how to do it in the simplest way, with the least overhead and in a
> way that people can easily understand.
>
>> About the second point, several solutions were proposed and I think we
>> have only two valuable solutions :
>> - <div class="button"><a href="...">...</a></div>
>> or - <a class="button" href="...">...</a>
>>
>> (In the above example, 'button' is choosed as an example and is
>> currently 'button2' in the 'DIV' and 'linkbut' in the 'A')
>>
>> This is because in many places we will use buttons outside a "navbar",
>> so we can't just have an 'A' tag without a class to identify them.
>>
> I agree, and as far as I know, I didn't change any of the tags outside
> of "navbar". But also agree the inconsistency is not good, as discussed
> below.
>
>> It was proposed to leave the <div class="button"> tag only when the
>> button is not in a "navbar", but I don't think it's a good solution
>> since it may imply, for designers, to use two different CSS selectors
>> for the same thing (".button a" and "a.button") instead of always just
>> one. It would also be a problem to build an easy-to-use smarty 'button'
>> function that builds the html code, since this function won't know the
>> context (inside a "navbar" or not).
>>
> Sure, I think that's good. I went ahead with the commit because I didn't
> anticipate it having such a negative impact, but did think it was just
> the first step.
>
>> About choosing between the two valuable solutions mentionned above, the
>> second one implies less generated html code, but the first one seems
>> more flexible to me (for example, it's better to make display shadows
>> for each buttons)
>>
> I agree. I think using something like '<span class="button"> <a>'
> consistently would be good, inside or outside div class="navbar".
>
>> I was already working, with pkdille, on a smarty function (let's call it
>> {button}, but I'm ok for another name if it's intuitive for developpers)
>> that is able to generate the code of a button. This is mainly intended
>> to be sure every button will have the same html/css code, but is also
>> already able to automatically handle AJAX. I'll commit this smarty
>> function and an example. I propose to let it generate the html code of
>> the first solution (<div class="button"><a href="...">...</a></div>).
>> And even if this smarty function is used everywhere (which is the goal),
>> it will make things easier to change the generated html code (we will
>> only have to modify it one time in the smarty function and it will
>> propagate itself everywhere).
>>
>> My only real problem is that since Gary removed class="linkbut" in many
>> (but not all) places, it's harder to identify which link is a button or
>> not... We may have to rollback Gary's commit ... :/
>>
> That shouldn't be much of a problem because the linkbut class was
> removed only from a tags that are directly inside div.navbar or
> span.button2 instances. So links in those contexts are the buttons. In
> essentially all instances, all links in those contexts were linkbuts
> (though apparently I missed something since Sylvie spotted a watch icon
> with a problem). There shouldn't have been any changes anywhere else
> (i.e., a class="linkbut" outside of that div and span remains as before).
>
> I assumed context would enable providing the same styling as having that
> (to me) redundant class, and assumed inconsistencies would be resolved
> with further class changes to be committed. I haven't had a chance yet
> to follow up on the specific problem Sylvie mentioned about gallery list
> view, other than finding that <div class="navbar"> is styled
> inconsistently, with the div sometimes containing '<span
> class="button2"> <a>', and sometimes containing just '<a>' directly with
> no span present, for the same type of links. The problem navbar on
> gallery list view contains the links directly, so the spans that
> differentiate "buttons" in other navbars are missing, maybe causing the
> problem for the watch icon there (which incidentally does, or its image
> does, have a class of its own, if I'm not mistaken).
>
> Anyway, I don't think rolling back to reinstate all those superfluous
> classes is a good idea, to resolve problems with a relatively small
> number of cases. I would treat the exceptional cases, such as by
> changing non-navbar instances of a.linkbut to span.button2 a, for
> consistency with '<div class="navbar"><span class="button2"><a>', if it
> were my choice to make (or change them all to '<div.button><a>' or
> whatever is the best solution). Actually I intended to continue in this
> direction, which I'm still happy to do.
>
> -- Gary
>
>> Cheers,
>> Nyloth.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sylvie Greverend [mailto:sgreverend@...]
>> Sent: Wednesday 24 September 2008 17:48
>> To: Tikiwiki developers
>> Subject: Re: [Tikiwiki-devel] [Tikiwiki-cvs/svn]SF.net SVN:
>> tikiwiki:[14705] trunk/templates
>>
>> Hi Gary,
>> Now that you took away the linkbut, how do you distinguish icon and text
>> in the navbar.
>> For instance in darkroom
>> tiki-list_file_gallery.php?galleryId=12
>> we have the 'shadow' of the watch icon on the right.
>> Thanks
>> Sylvie
>>
>> On Tue, 2008-09-16 at 13:38 +0900, Gary Cunningham-Lee wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> In view of the huge size of Tiki's CSS, I think we should try to
>>> simplify the CSS wherever possible. This means using something like
>>>
>> <div
>>
>>> id="page-bar"><a></a></div> if that is enough to do the job. My
>>>
>> thinking
>>
>>> is the CSS best practice should be to rely on contextual
>>> selectors/inheritance, and use class or id for exceptions. In
>>>
>> page-bar,
>>
>>> a simple link is generally enough. In the future, if there are icons
>>>
>> or
>>
>>> dropdowns, if context/inheritance isn't enough for styling, then the
>>>
>> new
>>
>>> additions in #page-bar can get their own class, etc. I don't think
>>>
>> it's
>>
>>> necessary to give current simple links in that div a class now, in
>>> anticipation of some future selectors being added there. This would be
>>>
>>> kind of like the .box-shadow div around every module that's ready but
>>> rarely (ever?) gets used.
>>>
>>> As for older themes that use a.linkbut or other selectors that we
>>>
>> might
>>
>>> want to drop, I don't think we should be anchored to the past. Already
>>>
>>> themes that aren't updated slowly lose compatibility; this is a kind
>>>
>> of
>>
>>> natural selection -- evolve or die, the same process as for Tiki
>>>
>> itself.
>>
>>> We can maybe make a table of selectors that are being changed, to help
>>>
>>> custom theme authors update their files. I think this is enough to
>>>
>> honor
>>
>>> "preserve the environment" in this case.
>>>
>>> Looking at a handful of themes that use spans and a.linkbut, etc. in
>>>
>> the
>>
>>> page bar, I don't think I saw anything that actually needed all those
>>> selectors. Mostly styling was shared between the span and the link
>>> instead of concentrating on the anchor itself.
>>>
>>> Also, I haven't compared #page-bar and #navbar, but shouldn't we be
>>> trying to do things the same way, with the same divs, etc., on pages
>>> where there results are basically the same? My thinking about Tiki 3
>>>
>> is
>>
>>> that wherever possible we should reuse the same code, same CSS, etc.
>>> across features where the final look and function are the same. And,
>>> again, just provide special classes and so on to handle exceptions to
>>> the general look/function.
>>>
>>> I don't know how a Smarty plugin works for setting CSS but would like
>>>
>> to
>>
>>> see that, if it helps progress toward our goals. :-)
>>>
>>> -- Gary
>>>
>>> Pascal Kustner wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> So, good news.....everybody's agree.....
>>>>
>>>> I will
>>>>
>>>> * Change (rollback to "your" structure) the page
>>>>
>>>>
>> http://dev.tikiwiki.org/tiki-pagehistory.php?page=TemplatesBestPractices
>>
>>
>>>> * Change the templates I already changed for this structure :
>>>> o <div class="clearfix" id="page-bar">
>>>> <a>...</a>
>>>> <a>...</a>
>>>> </div>
>>>> o But, on this point, I have a question : The target is
>>>> really to delete the <a> linkbut class ? This will IMHO
>>>> break some themes (because the look of the linkbut
>>>>
>> buttons
>>
>>>> is mostly on the linkbut class in the css....). Are we
>>>> really agree about this ? I'm not sure the linkbut class
>>>> in the <a> tag is a big issue .... Did I misunderstood ?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Pascal
>>>>
>>>> 2008/9/15 Sylvie Greverend <sgreverend@...
>>>> <mailto:sgreverend@...>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 14:43 +0200, Pascal Kustner wrote:
>>>> > Hello Sylvie,
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 2008/9/15 Sylvie Greverend <sgreverend@...
>>>> <mailto:sgreverend@...>>
>>>> > pkdille,
>>>> >
>>>> > I thought we agreed on
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>> http://dev.tikiwiki.org/tiki-pagehistory.php?page=TemplatesBestPractices
>> &preview=10
>> <http://dev.tikiwiki.org/tiki-pagehistory.php?page=TemplatesBestPractice
>> s&preview=10>
>>
>>>> > see the devel discussion about this.
>>>> >
>>>> > --> I was just looking and found your mail and luci's answer
>>>>
>> in
>>
>>>> early
>>>> > august. As there where no commit (AFAIK)
>>>> I did some - when I have to change the navbar for other reasons
>>>>
>> - but
>>
>>>> not on a large scale (my last massive change was to introduce
>>>> navbar to
>>>> get rid of the following <br /><br />. One step after another
>>>>
>> ;-)
>>
>>>> > to explicitely change this structure, I just didn't remember
>>>>
>> this
>>
>>>> > discussion !
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Why pkdille did you change this page?
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>> http://dev.tikiwiki.org/tiki-pagehistory.php?page=TemplatesBestPractices
>> &compare=1&oldver=12&newver=13&diff_style=sidediff
>> <http://dev.tikiwiki.org/tiki-pagehistory.php?page=TemplatesBestPractice
>> s&compare=1&oldver=12&newver=13&diff_style=sidediff>
>>
>>>> >
>>>> > --> when you are looking in templates, it's (IMHO) mostly like
>>>>
>> this:
>>
>>>> > <div class="navbar")
>>>> > <span class="button2">
>>>> > /> <a class="linkbut" href=.....>...</a>
>>>> > </span>
>>>> > /> <span class="button2">
>>>> > <a class="linkbut" href=.....>...</a>
>>>> > </span>
>>>> > </div>
>>>> >
>>>> > So, the idea was to deploy the version which is the most
>>>>
>> implemented
>>
>>>> This I am not sure . I can tell you as my favorite theme right
>>>>
>> now is
>>
>>>> darkroom and this styling is broken in darkroom
>>>> > (preserve environnment)
>>>> again it breaks darkroom
>>>> > and to have the same structure everywhere ! If everybody is
>>>> agree with
>>>> > your version, I propose that the community deploys this
>>>>
>> version ;-))
>>
>>>> I do not like it - I prefer to simplify - I am ready to help.
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > We really do not need all this classes.
>>>> > --> I'm agree with you. Anyway, we, in Strasbourg, will write
>>>>
>> a
>>
>>>> smarty
>>>> > plugin (as for title, remarksbox and pagination links, ...)
>>>>
>> and
>>
>>>> deploy
>>>> > it. So, in the future, changing the structure, or behaviour of
>>>>
>> all
>>
>>>> > this "buttons" will be very easy.
>>>> I agree with this - but I have no idea how to do 2 behaviors a
>>>>
>> navbar
>>
>>>> button and a button...
>>>> If you have a good idea how to organize this with smarty -
>>>>
>> welcome
>>
>>>> otherwise I would prefer to simplify the tpls
>>>>
>>>> my 2 cents
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Can we reopen the discussion
>>>> > --> done
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks
>>>> > --> you're welcome
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Sylvie
>>>> > --> Pascal
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Mon, 2008-09-15 at 09:45 +0000,
>>>> > pkdille@...
>>>> <mailto:pkdille@...> wrote:
>>>> > > Revision: 14705
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/tikiwiki/?rev=14705&view=rev
>>>>
>>>>
>> <http://tikiwiki.svn.sourceforge.net/tikiwiki/?rev=14705&view=rev>
>>
>>>> > > Author: pkdille
>>>> > > Date: 2008-09-15 09:45:05 +0000 (Mon, 15 Sep
>>>>
>> 2008)
>>
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Log Message:
>>>> > > -----------
>>>> > > [MOD] formatting navbar in some templates
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Modified Paths:
>>>> > > --------------
>>>> > > trunk/templates/tiki-directory_admin_bar.tpl
>>>> > > trunk/templates/tiki-directory_bar.tpl
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Modified:
>>>>
>> trunk/templates/tiki-directory_admin_bar.tpl
>>
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>> ===================================================================
>>
>>>> > > --- trunk/templates/tiki-directory_admin_bar.tpl
>>>> > 2008-09-15 02:15:09 UTC (rev 14704)
>>>> > > +++ trunk/templates/tiki-directory_admin_bar.tpl
>>>> > 2008-09-15 09:45:05 UTC (rev 14705)
>>>> > > @@ -1,8 +1,32 @@
>>>> > > -<div class="navbar" id="page-bar">
>>>> > > - <a class="linkbut"
>>>>
>> href="tiki-directory_browse.php"
>>
>>>> > class="linkbut">{tr}Browse{/tr}</a>
>>>> > > - <a class="linkbut"
>>>>
>> href="tiki-directory_admin.php"
>>
>>>> > class="linkbut">{tr}Admin{/tr}</a>
>>>> > > - {if $tiki_p_admin_directory_cats eq 'y'}<a
>>>> > class="linkbut"
>>>>
>> href="tiki-directory_admin_categories.php"
>>
>>>> > class="linkbut">{tr}Categories{/tr}</a>{/if}
>>>> > > - {if $tiki_p_admin_directory_cats eq 'y'}<a
>>>> > class="linkbut"
>>>>
>> href="tiki-directory_admin_related.php"
>>
>>>> > class="linkbut">{tr}Related{/tr}</a>{/if}
>>>> > > - {if $tiki_p_admin_directory_sites eq 'y'}<a
>>>> > class="linkbut" href="tiki-directory_admin_sites.php"
>>>> > class="linkbut">{tr}Sites{/tr}</a>{/if}
>>>> > > - {if $tiki_p_validate_links eq 'y'}<a
>>>>
>> class="linkbut"
>>
>>>> > href="tiki-directory_validate_sites.php"
>>>> > class="linkbut">{tr}Validate{/tr}</a>{/if}
>>>> > > +<div class="navbar">
>>>> > > + <span class="button2">
>>>> > > + <a class="linkbut"
>>>> > href="tiki-directory_browse.php">{tr}Browse{/tr}</a>
>>>> > > + </span>
>>>> > > + <span class="button2">
>>>> > > + <a class="linkbut"
>>>> > href="tiki-directory_admin.php">{tr}Admin{/tr}</a>
>>>> > > + </span>
>>>> > > +
>>>> > > + {if $tiki_p_admin_directory_cats eq 'y'}
>>>> > > + <span class="button2">
>>>> > > + <a class="linkbut"
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>> href="tiki-directory_admin_categories.php">{tr}Categories{/tr}</a>
>>
>>>> > > + </span>
>>>> > > + {/if}
>>>> > > +
>>>> > > + {if $tiki_p_admin_directory_cats eq 'y'}
>>>> > > + <span class="button2">
>>>> > > + <a class="linkbut"
>>>> >
>>>>
>> href="tiki-directory_admin_related.php">{tr}Related{/tr}</a>
>>
>>>> > > + </span>
>>>> > > + {/if}
>>>> > > +
>>>> > > + {if $tiki_p_admin_directory_sites eq 'y'}
>>>> > > + <span class="button2">
>>>> > > + <a class="linkbut"
>>>> >
>>>>
>> href="tiki-directory_admin_sites.php">{tr}Sites{/tr}</a>
>>
>>>> > > + </span>
>>>> > > + {/if}
>>>> > > +
>>>> > > + {if $tiki_p_validate_links eq 'y'}
>>>> > > + <span class="button2">
>>>> > > + <a class="linkbut"
>>>> >
>>>> href="tiki-directory_validate_sites.php">{tr}Validate{/tr}</a>
>>>> > > + </span>
>>>> > > + {/if}
>>>> > > </div>
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Modified: trunk/templates/tiki-directory_bar.tpl
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>> ===================================================================
>>
>>>> > > --- trunk/templates/tiki-directory_bar.tpl
>>>>
>> 2008-09-15
>>
>>>> > 02:15:09 UTC (rev 14704)
>>>> > > +++ trunk/templates/tiki-directory_bar.tpl
>>>>
>> 2008-09-15
>>
>>>> > 09:45:05 UTC (rev 14705)
>>>> > > @@ -1,22 +1,34 @@
>>>> > > -<div class="navbar" id="page-bar">
>>>> > > -<table>
>>>> > > -<tr>
>>>> > > -{if $tiki_p_admin_directory_cats eq 'y' or
>>>> > $tiki_p_admin_directory_sites eq 'y' or
>>>> $tiki_p_validate_links
>>>> > eq 'y'}
>>>> > > -<td><div class="button2"><a
>>>> > href="tiki-directory_admin.php"
>>>> > class="linkbut">{tr}Admin{/tr}</a></div></td>
>>>> > > -{/if}
>>>> > > -{if $mid ne "tiki-directory_browse.tpl"}
>>>> > > -<td><div class="button2"><a
>>>> > href="tiki-directory_browse.php"
>>>> > class="linkbut">{tr}Browse{/tr}</a></div></td>
>>>> > > -{/if}
>>>> > > -<td><div class="button2"><a
>>>> >
>>>>
>> href="tiki-directory_ranking.php?sort_mode=created_desc"
>>
>>>> > class="linkbut">{tr}New Sites{/tr}</a></div></td>
>>>> > > -{if $prefs.directory_cool_sites eq "y"}
>>>> > > -<td><div class="button2"><a
>>>> > href="tiki-directory_ranking.php?sort_mode=hits_desc"
>>>> > class="linkbut">{tr}Cool Sites{/tr}</a></div></td>
>>>> > > -{/if}
>>>> > > -{if $tiki_p_submit_link eq 'y' or
>>>>
>> $tiki_p_autosubmit_link
>>
>>>> > eq 'y'}
>>>> > > -<td><div class="button2"><a
>>>> > href="tiki-directory_add_site.php{if
>>>> > isset($addtocat)}?addtocat={$addtocat}{/if}"
>>>> > class="linkbut">{tr}Add a Site{/tr}</a></div></td>
>>>> > > -{if $tiki_p_admin_directory_cats eq 'y'}
>>>> > > -<td><div class="button2"><a
>>>> > href="tiki-directory_admin_categories.php"
>>>> > class="linkbut">{tr}Add a Category{/tr}</a></div></td>
>>>> > > -{/if}
>>>> > > -{/if}
>>>> > > -</tr>
>>>> > > -</table>
>>>> > > +<div class="navbar">
>>>> > > + {if $tiki_p_admin_directory_cats eq
>>>>
>> 'y' or
>>
>>>> > $tiki_p_admin_directory_sites eq 'y' or
>>>> $tiki_p_validate_links
>>>> > eq 'y'}
>>>> > > + <span class="button2">
>>>> > > + <a
>>>> > href="tiki-directory_admin.php"
>>>> > class="linkbut">{tr}Admin{/tr}</a>
>>>> > > + </span>
>>>> > > + {/if}
>>>> > > +
>>>> > > + {if $mid ne
>>>>
>> "tiki-directory_browse.tpl"}
>>
>>>> > > + <span class="button2">
>>>> > > + <a
>>>> > href="tiki-directory_browse.php"
>>>> > class="linkbut">{tr}Browse{/tr}</a>
>>>> > > + </span>
>>>> > > + {/if}
>>>> > > +
>>>> > > + <span class="button2">
>>>> > > + <a
>>>> >
>>>>
>> href="tiki-directory_ranking.php?sort_mode=created_desc"
>>
>>>> > class="linkbut">{tr}New Sites{/tr}</a>
>>>> > > + </span>
>>>> > > +
>>>> > > + {if $prefs.directory_cool_sites eq "y"}
>>>> > > + <span class="button2">
>>>> > > + <a
>>>> > href="tiki-directory_ranking.php?sort_mode=hits_desc"
>>>> > class="linkbut">{tr}Cool Sites{/tr}</a>
>>>> > > + </span>
>>>> > > + {/if}
>>>> > > +
>>>> > > + {if $tiki_p_submit_link eq 'y' or
>>>> > $tiki_p_autosubmit_link eq 'y'}
>>>> > > + <span class="button2">
>>>> > > + <a
>>>> > href="tiki-directory_add_site.php{if
>>>> > isset($addtocat)}?addtocat={$addtocat}{/if}"
>>>> > class="linkbut">{tr}Add a Site{/tr}</a>
>>>> > > + </span>
>>>> > > + {if $tiki_p_admin_directory_cats eq
>>>>
>> 'y'}
>>
>>>> > > + <span class="button2">
>>>> > > + <a
>>>> > href="tiki-directory_admin_categories.php"
>>>> > class="linkbut">{tr}Add a Category{/tr}</a>
>>>> > > + </span>
>>>> > > + {/if}
>>>> > > + {/if}
>>>> > > </div>
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > This was sent by the SourceForge.net collaborative
>>>> > development platform, the world's largest Open Source
>>>> > development site.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> >
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> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
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