Simply GNUstep

Still building that 2.6 kernel distro set.  Man, this takes foerever!  
Anyone want to donate a 2.8GHZ PIV CPU chip?  That would speed this up 
a lot.  Actually, I wish I could get a DUAL XEON or something but I 
just can't afford that right now.

Anyhow...

Here's the deal.

I'm compiling the source to use the new linux 2.6 test kernel.  I won't 
know if it actually works until the whole darn source is compiled.  
I'll let you all know how that works though!

As far as the graphical boot, here's the plan:

The kernel will have the vesa framebuffer built in, so all boot up 
displays will be 16bit color at 800x600?   I don't think all the vid 
cards out there will handle the switch to X11, we'll find out though.  
We can always fall back to regular VGA16 if this is a problem.

Here's my thinking of how this will work:

When the kernel is done booting, init is called and init calls rcS, 
right?  The first thing rcS does is switch all stdout and stderr out to 
/var/log/bootmessages (is there a  more proper way?).
Then, a FIFO is created in /tmp.
Next, a program we will write will monitor the FIFO in /tmp.  this 
program will know how to draw stuff to the framebuffer.
The init scripts will replace the "echo"s with a shell command which 
puts stuff in the FIFO. Let's call the shell command "BootMessage.sh"
When our program reads the FIFO, it puts it on the framebuffer.
finally, a X11 display manager is run, and that's that.
Now, what to do when the user shutsdown and the display manger dies?  I 
guess our program will still be open and watching the FIFO, so we can 
just go right back to graphical until poweroff?


Pretty simple I hope.  Unlike other similar projects, this does not 
require a kernel path.  Kernel bootup messages can be removed with the 
"messages" kernel parameter.  So, while the kernel is initializing, the 
penguiin will be there until our program is started and stuff starts 
getting fed to it from the FIFO.


Any comments, suggestions, volunteers?  :-)

Chad

Not all monitors can handle 800x600; unless you intend to make this a
minimum system requirement, I would suggest using 640x480 instead for
bootstrap purposes.

--- cehardin@... wrote:
> Still building that 2.6 kernel distro set.  Man, this takes foerever!
>  
> Anyone want to donate a 2.8GHZ PIV CPU chip?  That would speed this
> up 
> a lot.  Actually, I wish I could get a DUAL XEON or something but I 
> just can't afford that right now.
> 
> Anyhow...
> 
> Here's the deal.
> 
> I'm compiling the source to use the new linux 2.6 test kernel.  I
> won't 
> know if it actually works until the whole darn source is compiled.  
> I'll let you all know how that works though!
> 
> As far as the graphical boot, here's the plan:
> 
> The kernel will have the vesa framebuffer built in, so all boot up 
> displays will be 16bit color at 800x600?   I don't think all the vid 
> cards out there will handle the switch to X11, we'll find out though.
>  
> We can always fall back to regular VGA16 if this is a problem.
> 
> Here's my thinking of how this will work:
> 
> When the kernel is done booting, init is called and init calls rcS, 
> right?  The first thing rcS does is switch all stdout and stderr out
> to 
> /var/log/bootmessages (is there a  more proper way?).
> Then, a FIFO is created in /tmp.
> Next, a program we will write will monitor the FIFO in /tmp.  this 
> program will know how to draw stuff to the framebuffer.
> The init scripts will replace the "echo"s with a shell command which 
> puts stuff in the FIFO. Let's call the shell command "BootMessage.sh"
> When our program reads the FIFO, it puts it on the framebuffer.
> finally, a X11 display manager is run, and that's that.
> Now, what to do when the user shutsdown and the display manger dies? 
> I 
> guess our program will still be open and watching the FIFO, so we can
> 
> just go right back to graphical until poweroff?
> 
> 
> Pretty simple I hope.  Unlike other similar projects, this does not 
> require a kernel path.  Kernel bootup messages can be removed with
> the 
> "messages" kernel parameter.  So, while the kernel is initializing,
> the 
> penguiin will be there until our program is started and stuff starts 
> getting fed to it from the FIFO.
> 
> 
> Any comments, suggestions, volunteers?  :-)
> 
> Chad
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites
> including
> Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now.
> Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET.
>
http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/01
> _______________________________________________
> Simplygnustep-discuss mailing list
> Simplygnustep-discuss@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/simplygnustep-discuss


=====
=======
Frank D. Engel, Jr.

Modify the equilibrium of the vertically-oriented particle decelerator to result in the reestablishment of its resistance to counterproductive atmospheric penetration.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 06:43  AM, Pablo Di Noto wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>> Exactly!  I do something similar, I just use vmware.
> I did a CVS checkout on Jul-14, and the build failed when building 
> bash and then at bin-utils.
> Since these are the first two packages that are compiled to build the 
> reference system, I suspect something wrong with my build machine, 
> which is a Mandrake 9.1;

I've done some big changes to the source tree in the past couple days.  
Now the tree can be built without being root, this keeps it from 
accidentally destroying your OS setup.  The catch is that it uses sudo, 
so that has to be configured.
I use the newest RedHat on vmware-4 for my build and it works fine.  
Wether it will work on other distros is something i can't answer right 
now.  I guess the biggest factor is what version of gcc and binutils 
the distro has.

>
> I plan to update my working copies and retry on a vmwared SuSE 8.2. 
> Which prompts me to question: Which is the "ideal distro" for the 
> initial build system? If the answer is out there, my apologies for 
> missing that part...
>
> Greetings from Cordoba, Argentina!
> ///Pablo
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: VM Ware
> With VMware you can run multiple operating systems on a single machine.
> WITHOUT REBOOTING! Mix Linux / Windows / Novell virtual machines at the
> same time. Free trial click here: http://www.vmware.com/wl/offer/345/0
> _______________________________________________
> Simplygnustep-discuss mailing list
> Simplygnustep-discuss@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/simplygnustep-discuss

Hi Chad,

cehardin@... wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 06:43  AM, Pablo Di Noto wrote:

> I've done some big changes to the source tree in the past couple days.  
> Now the tree can be built without being root, this keeps it from 
> accidentally destroying your OS setup.  The catch is that it uses sudo, 
> so that has to be configured.

ooOOOohh I like the sound of that! Thanks for the hard work Chad. :-)

> I guess the biggest factor is what version of gcc and binutils the 
> distro has.

What are the versions you use? On SUSE 8.2 we have:
-  gcc version 3.3-23
-  binutils version 2.13.90.0.18-21

>> I plan to update my working copies and retry on a vmwared SuSE 8.2. 

I've been using SuSE 8.1, Pablo, (I think, or was it 8.0?) but I 
accidentally zapped the installed OS and it wouldn't boot, hence my 
ooOOOohh above. I haven't had the time to try again since then, sorry 
Chad. I've now got a stack of nine new machines delivered to the Co. 
office, so until they're commissioned, I can have another go. Reports 
forthcoming...

I've had issues with SuSE 8.2 for other reasons, but it was due to 
compiling code with strstream legacy stuff. gcc 3.3 no longer has 
library support for some old C++ code. Although I doubt this will affect 
Chad's cutting edge work.

Pete.

On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 08:24  PM, Peter-Henry Mander wrote:

> Hi Chad,
>
> cehardin@... wrote:
>> On Wednesday, July 16, 2003, at 06:43  AM, Pablo Di Noto wrote:
>
>> I've done some big changes to the source tree in the past couple 
>> days.  Now the tree can be built without being root, this keeps it 
>> from accidentally destroying your OS setup.  The catch is that it 
>> uses sudo, so that has to be configured.
>
> ooOOOohh I like the sound of that! Thanks for the hard work Chad. :-)

:-).  I knew it was something that had to be done!

>
>> I guess the biggest factor is what version of gcc and binutils the 
>> distro has.
>
> What are the versions you use? On SUSE 8.2 we have:
> -  gcc version 3.3-23
> -  binutils version 2.13.90.0.18-21

I think that should be fine.  I wonder if they have added some patches 
which will make the build fail?

>
>>> I plan to update my working copies and retry on a vmwared SuSE 8.2.
>
> I've been using SuSE 8.1, Pablo, (I think, or was it 8.0?) but I 
> accidentally zapped the installed OS and it wouldn't boot, hence my 
> ooOOOohh above. I haven't had the time to try again since then, sorry 
> Chad. I've now got a stack of nine new machines delivered to the Co. 
> office, so until they're commissioned, I can have another go. Reports 
> forthcoming...

Geez.  nine machines?  When you checkout with cvs, make sure you 
checkout the Prometheus2 module, not the Prometheus module.

>
> I've had issues with SuSE 8.2 for other reasons, but it was due to 
> compiling code with strstream legacy stuff. gcc 3.3 no longer has 
> library support for some old C++ code. Although I doubt this will 
> affect Chad's cutting edge work.

Cutting Edge?  you're too kind!  :-)

Later,

chad

>
> Pete.
>
>

Hello,

>> I've done some big changes to the source tree in the past couple 
>> days.  Now the tree can be built without being root, this keeps it 
>> from accidentally destroying your OS setup.  The catch is that it 
>> uses sudo, so that has to be configured.
>
Great, it sounds good.

> ooOOOohh I like the sound of that! Thanks for the hard work Chad. :-) 

I second Peter's comment, Chad. Good job!

>> I guess the biggest factor is what version of gcc and binutils the 
>> distro has.
>
> What are the versions you use? On SUSE 8.2 we have:
> -  gcc version 3.3-23
> -  binutils version 2.13.90.0.18-21 

Right.

What I see is that some packages compiled under 
WorkingTree/Source/StaticLib are incorrectly installed on the host 
system. I will report in a separate message next.

> I've been using SuSE 8.1, Pablo, (I think, or was it 8.0?) but I 
> accidentally zapped the installed OS and it wouldn't boot, hence my 
> ooOOOohh above. I haven't had the time to try again since then, sorry 
> Chad. I've now got a stack of nine new machines delivered to the Co. 
> office, so until they're commissioned, I can have another go. Reports 
> forthcoming... 

Great! It will be nice to have someone else also trying on SuSE.
So far, I'm still into the Static building.

Regards,
///Pablo

--- Pablo Di Noto <pdinoto@...> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> >> I've done some big changes to the source tree in
> the past couple 
> >> days.  Now the tree can be built without being
> root, this keeps it 
> >> from accidentally destroying your OS setup.  The
> catch is that it 
> >> uses sudo, so that has to be configured.
> >
> Great, it sounds good.
> 
> > ooOOOohh I like the sound of that! Thanks for the
> hard work Chad. :-) 
> 
> I second Peter's comment, Chad. Good job!


Agreed. Thank you! 

I just want to float the Idea of having a script to
install this on a harddisk, not on the cd, but maybe
for the source tree. I would find this usefull in
setting up a system with remote access. my idea: only
has to copy the files over, I can partition the disk
beforehand and install from the cd or such. but I want
to use it for remote logins, so that if anyone wants
to help develop and test a program, they can run it on
a native SGStep box. I have the hardware for it too,
speaking of which - does anyone know if there are
going to be any events on the east coast of the US
that we could promote this at? maybe MacWorld? I know
that Macworld will be in Boston, and I'm going(since
i'm almost nextdoor to the place anyways), so maybe
Demo Disks, or, hopefully, install disks? I know that
there has been some press coverage in the Mac news
outlets about us, maybe find some way to show up at
MacWorld? I doubt a booth would work, way too  much
money and such, though I know that I will want to show
off and give away(if not sell) Prometheus Install
Disks at the Harvard/MIT Radio Group Swapmeets. that I
can get a booth for, and even do demos! Just floating
some ideas. 

JMan


https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/simplygnustep-discuss


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

glibc did, of course, fail to compile with the includes fom the newest 
linux kernel.  What to do then?

Well, I think it's important we stick with a linux-2.6 goal so I have a 
workaround going:
Install linux-2.4.21 headers in /usr/include
compile glibc and therefore everything of that.
But, use the 2.6 kernel and modules.
So, we have a bit of a hybrid system right now.

Will it work?  I don't know!  :-)  but we are gonna find out!

hopefully the next version of glibc will allow us to go completely 
linux-2.6

Chad

------------------------------------
The new linux-2.6.0-test1 is out!

I'm gonna give it a shot.  If glibc will compile with it then we are a 
"go" for using linux-2.6!
I'll let you all know how it goes later on today.

Chad

> Building SimplyGNUstep on a stock SuSE 8.2 (installed as minimal 
> system plus basic development):
>
>        /usr/bin/install does not honor DESTDIR, at least
>        in this distro.


Ok, it is not a /usr/bin/install issue, since it is Makefile job to 
build the install path.
For some reason, some Makefiles fail in this aspect.

After these small glitches, everything goes ok.
I am now into SharedLib, with the chrooted build working ok so far.

Regards,
///Pablo

Cool!  i have made more changes to the StaticLib portions as well as 
the common Makefiles.  This is very fast moving target  :-)

the main changes I'm making is to make sure that everything is 
installed properly.  A big issue is making sure man pages and info 
pages go to /usr/share/man and /usr/share/info instead of /usr/man and 
/usr/info.

This is why making the packages is so time consuming because most 
software projects insist on installing to /usr or /usr/local and you 
gotta tweak them to not do that.  Thankfully the newer packages use a 
newer automake/autoconfig which utilizes the DESTDIR variable.


Chad

On Friday, July 18, 2003, at 05:01  AM, Pablo Di Noto wrote:

>> Building SimplyGNUstep on a stock SuSE 8.2 (installed as minimal 
>> system plus basic development):
>>
>>        /usr/bin/install does not honor DESTDIR, at least
>>        in this distro.
>
>
> Ok, it is not a /usr/bin/install issue, since it is Makefile job to 
> build the install path.
> For some reason, some Makefiles fail in this aspect.
>
> After these small glitches, everything goes ok.
> I am now into SharedLib, with the chrooted build working ok so far.
>
> Regards,
> ///Pablo
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: VM Ware
> With VMware you can run multiple operating systems on a single machine.
> WITHOUT REBOOTING! Mix Linux / Windows / Novell virtual machines at the
> same time. Free trial click here: http://www.vmware.com/wl/offer/345/0
> _______________________________________________
> Simplygnustep-discuss mailing list
> Simplygnustep-discuss@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/simplygnustep-discuss

very nice. I like it. 



--- cehardin@... wrote:
> I just released GSDock-0.0.1.  It's a pure
> GNUstep/objc Dock.app. This 
> is planned as being *the* dock for
> SimplyGNUstep/Prometheus.
> 
> Interestingly, it currently works better under OS
> X/Cocoa than GNUstep. 
>   Feel free to download the OS X executable and
> source code from:
> http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/gsdock
> 
> Try it out and maybe give some feedback?  Remember
> this will not look 
> like an OS X app because it is designed to run under
> GNUstep.
> 
> Description?  I'd say it's like a hybrid between the
> old OpenStep Dock 
> and the current OS X dock.
> 
> Enjoy
> 
> chad
> 
> 
> 
>
-------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built
> ASP.NET sites including
> Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are
> available now.
> Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual
> Studio .NET.
>
http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100006ave/direct;at.asp_061203_01/01
> _______________________________________________
> Simplygnustep-discuss mailing list
> Simplygnustep-discuss@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/simplygnustep-discuss

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

in addition, I will have a new release of the
installer(now named Installer.app) in the next 3-4
days. Promised. I will have cleaned up some code,
fixed the UI, and hopefully get it to work with shell
scripts, which it doesn't seem to want to launch. I
also hope to start working on some programs to help
configure the system. any ideas?

Justin


--- Justin Cutietta <jcutietta@...> wrote:
> very nice. I like it. 
> 
> 
> 
> --- cehardin@... wrote:
> > I just released GSDock-0.0.1.  It's a pure
> > GNUstep/objc Dock.app. This 
> > is planned as being *the* dock for
> > SimplyGNUstep/Prometheus.
> > 
> > Interestingly, it currently works better under OS
> > X/Cocoa than GNUstep. 
> >   Feel free to download the OS X executable and
> > source code from:
> > http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/gsdock
> > 
> > Try it out and maybe give some feedback?  Remember
> > this will not look 
> > like an OS X app because it is designed to run
> under
> > GNUstep.
> > 
> > Description?  I'd say it's like a hybrid between
> the
> > old OpenStep Dock 
> > and the current OS X dock.
> > 
> > Enjoy
> > 
> > chad
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>
-------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built
> > ASP.NET sites including
> > Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are
> > available now.
> > Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual
> > Studio .NET.
> >
>
http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100006ave/direct;at.asp_061203_01/01
> > _______________________________________________
> > Simplygnustep-discuss mailing list
> > Simplygnustep-discuss@...
> >
>
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/simplygnustep-discuss
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
> 
> 
>
-------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built
> ASP.NET sites including
> Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are
> available now.
> Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual
> Studio .NET.
>
http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100006ave/direct;at.asp_061203_01/01
> _______________________________________________
> Simplygnustep-discuss mailing list
> Simplygnustep-discuss@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/simplygnustep-discuss

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

Cool!

So you where having problems with NSTask?


Chad

On Sunday, July 6, 2003, at 05:26  AM, Justin Cutietta wrote:

>
> in addition, I will have a new release of the
> installer(now named Installer.app) in the next 3-4
> days. Promised. I will have cleaned up some code,
> fixed the UI, and hopefully get it to work with shell
> scripts, which it doesn't seem to want to launch. I
> also hope to start working on some programs to help
> configure the system. any ideas?
>
> Justin
>
>
> --- Justin Cutietta <jcutietta@...> wrote:
>> very nice. I like it.
>>
>>
>>
>> --- cehardin@... wrote:
>>> I just released GSDock-0.0.1.  It's a pure
>>> GNUstep/objc Dock.app. This
>>> is planned as being *the* dock for
>>> SimplyGNUstep/Prometheus.
>>>
>>> Interestingly, it currently works better under OS
>>> X/Cocoa than GNUstep.
>>>   Feel free to download the OS X executable and
>>> source code from:
>>> http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/gsdock
>>>
>>> Try it out and maybe give some feedback?  Remember
>>> this will not look
>>> like an OS X app because it is designed to run
>> under
>>> GNUstep.
>>>
>>> Description?  I'd say it's like a hybrid between
>> the
>>> old OpenStep Dock
>>> and the current OS X dock.
>>>
>>> Enjoy
>>>
>>> chad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> -------------------------------------------------------
>>> This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built
>>> ASP.NET sites including
>>> Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are
>>> available now.
>>> Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual
>>> Studio .NET.
>>>
>>
> http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100006ave/direct;at.asp_061203_01/ 
> 01
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Simplygnustep-discuss mailing list
>>> Simplygnustep-discuss@...
>>>
>>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/simplygnustep-discuss
>>
>> __________________________________
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
>> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
> -------------------------------------------------------
>> This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built
>> ASP.NET sites including
>> Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are
>> available now.
>> Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual
>> Studio .NET.
>>
> http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100006ave/direct;at.asp_061203_01/ 
> 01
>> _______________________________________________
>> Simplygnustep-discuss mailing list
>> Simplygnustep-discuss@...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/simplygnustep-discuss
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com