On Monday, May 12, 2003, at 12:45 Pacific/Honolulu, Chris B. Vetter
> On Mon, 12 May 2003 10:56:18 -1000
> cehardin@... wrote:
>>> IMHO the pieces are available but they need more integration:
>>> - Window manager: Interface window manager
>>> Jewell Objective-C (http://mjr.towers.org.uk/xwinman.html)
>>> - Workspace manager: GWorkspace.app
>> Both good, not familiar with jewell though, it's written in objc but
>> does it uses GNUstep frameworks?
> Jewel is written in C++. Work on Jewel in ObjC has just started, but
> source is not (yet) available.
Ok, I'll keep an eye out for it then.
> That said, here's my 0.02 Dollar, Euro, Rubel, Pesos, Whatever:
> IMHO, for a good integration of a desktop (keeping in mind that we
> currently are dependent of X11, which could change if someone was going
> to write an appropriate backend) we need two tools (or applications)
> - a window manager
> - a desktop manager (which may consist of several parts/bundles)
> To merge both in one tool is feasible, but should not be considered.
> one, it will make the whole thing too big to support (the source) in
> a simple way.
> As for an (abstract) overview of what those two are supposed to do,
> a) The window manager does exactly that -- managing windows. Nothing
> more, nothing less. That is: open, close, move, resize, hide, show.
> And that's it. The window manager is in control of how to display
> objects on your screen(s). And yes, application icons are windows and
> therefor fall under the window manager's job.
This seems to be very close to what InterfaceWM is. B delegating the
other traditional X11 window manager responsibilities to a Dock.app
would make their work much easier.
> b) The desktop manager is in charge of the Dock and (if applicable) a
> Fiend and/or Panel. (I see the Dock as a static and "slimmed down"
> version of the Fiend, the latter being freely movable across the
> screen). It is also in charge of launching applications, eg. from a
> browser or setting the background image.
> Basically, it does what (G)Workspace already offers.
Doesn't the gnustep API itself handle the launching of apps, why shift
this to the Dock? IMHO, the Dock should provide tiles to allow the
user to launch the apps, nothing else. It also listens for new apps
launching and puts in appropriate tiles. Maybe I'm missing something
in your comment..?
> So in a nutshell, you have a minimalistic window manager, that does
> nothing on it's own. It's full "potential" can only be experienced in
> conjunction with a/the desktop manager, since it doesn't offer any
> conveniences like a background menu *gasp*
> and therefor neither a way to
> launch applications, nor even a way to exit the thing... As I said
> above, it only manages windows.
I agree 100%
> How do I think this will work?
> Easy -- the combination of both is launched in reverse, you first start
> the desktop manager (which DOES have background menus) and then start
> the window manager. Therefor, exiting the desktop manager exits the
> window manager.
Cool, is the desktop manager also handling session management, or
should that be another thing?
> Now, as to the Dock, as said above, it should be static on your screen.
> Eg. it can only be moved to and within predefined areas, like left or
> right screen side. To add an application, you drag its icon from a file
> browser onto it, similar to as it is done with Window Maker and the
> Fiend in GWorkspace.
Right, the fiend could still be used if people prefer it.
> The difference here is, that, when you launch an application from the
> Dock, the application icon WILL be displayed at the bottom of the
> screen (as this is the window managers responsibility)
I think it;s confusing to most users to have app icons in two different
places. i think they should only appear in one place, the Dock.
> That way, even if
> your main screen area is cluttered, you can see which applications are
> running and can easily move one in front by clicking the respective
> app-icon. (WMaker will not display the app-icon, if the app is docked).
> I haven't thought much about how a Panel would apply here, but a quick
> idea would be that the window manager will send a notification to the
> desktop manager everytime an application is launched. If a Panel is in
> use, the desktop manager adds the app-icon to a special tab, called say
> "Running", and sends a note back to the window manager, not do display
> the app-icon. Of course, the reverse applies, when the application is
Right, but, in your definition, what is the difference between a Panel
and a Dock?
> As I said, just my 0.02 and not much thought through, though, but I'm
> fairly sure that the first part(s) can easily be implemented.
Right on, this is exactly the kind of conversation I like to see.
Can't build without collaboration!
> On a side note: I start my X11 sessions by launching GWorkspace first,
> then the actual window manager -- install wmaker with --enable-lite and
> try for yourself for a more NeXT'ish experience ;-)
I can't get WindowMaker to compile with --enable-lite (the cvs
version), do you have any tips for this?
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