On Saturday 08 December 2007 11:35, Johannes Schindelin wrote:
> To propose Console2, admitting that it does not run on older Windows
> (which are way preferable to me, since I have lots of licenses for
> them that work, thanks to Microsoft's insistence on selling Windows
> with every computer, and they run way faster in
> virtualisers/emulators) is what qualifies as "half-assed" with this
If you'd taken the trouble to read my suggestion *properly*, you'd=20
realise that I *wasn't* suggesting adoption of Console2, for this=20
reason amongst others. What I did suggest was adopting their method=20
for interaction with the stdio streams, but in a truly open GUI=20
framework, which *could* support those older Woe32 versions.
> > There are two officially supported methods of running the MSYS
> > shell:--
> > 1) In a native Woe32 console. =A0This is the only one of the two
> > which is truly robust; it has always been available, and is the
> > default choice for Cygwin, but not for MSYS. =A0In a recent poll, on
> > this list, those who bothered to respond were unanimous that it
> > should also become the default for MSYS.
> I wasn't there; I would have opposed.
> Even if we have to use cmd/command.exe with msysGit, since for
> example ssh password input or paging with "less" does not work
> properly in rxvt, the shortcomings of cmd/command are so annoying
> that I curse out loud in the general direction of Redmond almost
> every time I have to use it.
If you think that running MSYS in a native Woe32 console means running=20
cmd.exe or command.com, then perhaps you should question your own=20
understanding of the issues, before branding others as incompetent.
> Think resizing the window (not that hard, everybody else seems to do
> it just fine).
Yes, this is about the *only* real limitation of the native console.
Console2 is able to do this, while still maintaining proper interaction=20
with the stdio streams; that's why I suggested that their *technique*=20
may be worth exploring.
> Think copy/pasting (you have to enable it manually!
One time *only*, then you can forget about it.
> you have to _right_ click to finish the selection!
So what? Sure, it's a little bit different, but you can quickly get=20
used to it. I don't see this as a particular problem.
> You can forget=20
> about multi-line selections if the first line of what you want to
> select does not start in the first column).
Yes. This can be a bit fiddly, but achievable nonetheless.
> Think scrolling back with a keyboard shortcut.
This is a limitation; I've learned to live with it. Console2 can do it,=20
just like in the KDE konsole on my Linux box, so no reason an MSYS work=20
alike couldn't be developed.
> > 2) In an RXVT. =A0Currently the default, but has always been beset by
> > =A0 =A0problems. =A0Earnie, who originally chose to make it the default,
> > and who did not vote in the poll, devoted a lot of effort in trying
> > to fix it, before eventually conceding defeat.
> Yes, fighting with the Win32 API is more difficult than any
> adventure/first-person-shooter game I ever saw. =A0But never attribute
> to malice that which can be explained by incompetence. =A0After all,
> the same bunch still have the most virus- and bug-ridden OS out
> there, even after years of money heading their way.
I don't get your point. If you are suggesting Earnie is incompetent,=20
then you will not win many friends here; if you are suggesting=20
Microsnot are, then so what? We live on their OS platform, so we just=20
have to do the best we can with what they provide.
> BTW another solution to that console problem I will explore is using
> Xming. =A0A guy on #git told me that startup is almost instantaneous.
>=A0And it has all the advantages of X11, since it _is_ X11.
Thanks. I'll take a look, next week.