LogiLogi - Software Libre for the Web

The Mensa convention-weekend was nice and interesting. I met a few
people from other FOSS-projects, and discussed LogiLogi Manta with
quite a few people, among which the head of the library-IT-group of
a dutch university (won't name the name of the University here, as
Mensans usually want to keep their membership private).

And that person was quite interested in the idea... while at the
same time acknowledging that something like LogiLogi Manta likely
would need to come into existence via a project like ours because
there are hardly any ways to do it via existing funds and decision-
structures inside libraries...

So we will do our best to integrate Andrew's UI further, tweak the
colors & everything as well as we can to make it userfriendly and
then do a more extensive usabillity test & improvement via the
Digitale Pioniers-fund...

This week I will continue the work on integration and at the same
time implement the Author_Name_<nr> form of Logi-id's and maybe a
few other small cleanups... and as said in my previous mail, I will
also fill out the Digitale Pioniers application-form this week...

I've also been thinking about how to lead users through the comment-
process, and how to make things as clear as possible, and for this
I am thinking about simple html/ajax-wizzards.

Like when someone wants to create a new logi it would be usefull
to ask the user whether that should be done with the tags of the
current location, and if not, with which tags, as I assume that
not-so-web-sawwy-people might find it confusing if the current
tags are used silently.

And another with comments. Maybe it's a good idea to have 2 kinds
of comments. Small comments, or comments, which can be of the
classical few-lines type with notices like "Nice idea", or "Did
you consider this and thus source, and then still think so ?"
(like shoutbox messages) and full responses, which will then be
logis themselves.

And for this commenting a simple set of yes/no questions could
also guide users in making the right decisions, and tagging their
comment with meaningfull tags...

I think that in the end things like these will be what makes the
difference for most users, and thus for LogiLogi Manta...

greetings,

Wybo

Hi.
Sorry for not being involved into work on the weekend. My grandma had a
birthday on Sunday. So I had to go to another town to present on the party.
So, Wybo, what would be the task for me(you remember the rules for
assignment)?
Best regards, Artyom.

Original message from Wybo Wiersma,:
> The Mensa convention-weekend was nice and interesting. I met a few
> people from other FOSS-projects, and discussed LogiLogi Manta with
> quite a few people, among which the head of the library-IT-group of
> a dutch university (won't name the name of the University here, as
> Mensans usually want to keep their membership private).
>
> And that person was quite interested in the idea... while at the
> same time acknowledging that something like LogiLogi Manta likely
> would need to come into existence via a project like ours because
> there are hardly any ways to do it via existing funds and decision-
> structures inside libraries...
>
> So we will do our best to integrate Andrew's UI further, tweak the
> colors & everything as well as we can to make it userfriendly and
> then do a more extensive usabillity test & improvement via the
> Digitale Pioniers-fund...
>
> This week I will continue the work on integration and at the same
> time implement the Author_Name_<nr> form of Logi-id's and maybe a
> few other small cleanups... and as said in my previous mail, I will
> also fill out the Digitale Pioniers application-form this week...
>
> I've also been thinking about how to lead users through the comment-
> process, and how to make things as clear as possible, and for this
> I am thinking about simple html/ajax-wizzards.
>
> Like when someone wants to create a new logi it would be usefull
> to ask the user whether that should be done with the tags of the
> current location, and if not, with which tags, as I assume that
> not-so-web-sawwy-people might find it confusing if the current
> tags are used silently.
>
> And another with comments. Maybe it's a good idea to have 2 kinds
> of comments. Small comments, or comments, which can be of the
> classical few-lines type with notices like "Nice idea", or "Did
> you consider this and thus source, and then still think so ?"
> (like shoutbox messages) and full responses, which will then be
> logis themselves.
>
> And for this commenting a simple set of yes/no questions could
> also guide users in making the right decisions, and tagging their
> comment with meaningfull tags...
>
> I think that in the end things like these will be what makes the
> difference for most users, and thus for LogiLogi Manta...
>
> greetings,
>
> Wybo
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>

> Hi.
> Sorry for not being involved into work on the weekend. My grandma had a
> birthday on Sunday. So I had to go to another town to present on the party.

Np., real life is life too :)

> So, Wybo, what would be the task for me (you remember the rules for
> assignment) ?

A concrete thing could be transfering the star-rating code from OgOg
to LogiLogi Manta (with 2 negative 'stars instead of skulls'). For
this the javascript and the html-code should stay intact as much as
possible as it works in IE too currently. The images would need to
change though as skulls are a bit too cheeky for alpha's in a serious
context.. (the negative stars could become red (like #e96e06;)).

But if you prefer to do something else you can just discuss & claim it
here on the list...

In an off-list snippet of a Dutch e-mail Andrew said he would be
tweaking the colors of the UI a bit sometime the coming weekend so
that's his for now...

Wybo

> Best regards, Artyom.

On 10/29/07, Wybo Wiersma <wybo@...> wrote:
>
> This week I will continue the work on integration and at the same
> time implement the Author_Name_<nr> form of Logi-id's and maybe a
> few other small cleanups... and as said in my previous mail, I will
> also fill out the Digitale Pioniers application-form this week...
>
let me know if I could help you on any of this.

> I've also been thinking about how to lead users through the comment-
> process, and how to make things as clear as possible, and for this
> I am thinking about simple html/ajax-wizzards.
>
certainly.

> Like when someone wants to create a new logi it would be usefull
> to ask the user whether that should be done with the tags of the
> current location, and if not, with which tags, as I assume that
> not-so-web-sawwy-people might find it confusing if the current
> tags are used silently.
>

how about implementing the logilogilink as a popover that could
eventually have a wizzard. For examle, we could get a popover when
clicking on "new logi" and give the user two options to click "copy
this logi tags" or "errase tags".

This could also be applied to the commenting, where we could just put
one link (say "add content") and in the popover (wizard) could show
"logi", "comment", "shout out", etc...?

it would be nice if we adopt something like this site-wide and also
apply it to the logilogilinks in text. I could work on that with
miguel if you want.

> And another with comments. Maybe it's a good idea to have 2 kinds
> of comments. Small comments, or comments, which can be of the
> classical few-lines type with notices like "Nice idea", or "Did
> you consider this and thus source, and then still think so ?"
> (like shoutbox messages) and full responses, which will then be
> logis themselves.
>

what about making a logi being part of the discussion/argumentation
and the comment an addon to the discussion. then there could be
different types of comments, like said before about the wizard.

> And for this commenting a simple set of yes/no questions could
> also guide users in making the right decisions, and tagging their
> comment with meaningfull tags...
>
> I think that in the end things like these will be what makes the
> difference for most users, and thus for LogiLogi Manta...
>

I totally agree with you. I always think that we should get a standard
way to claim atention to make a choice. Also the level of "choices"
shown should go with the level of complexity of the UI you select.

> greetings,
>
> Wybo
>


-- 
Bruno

> > This week I will continue the work on integration and at the same
> > time implement the Author_Name_<nr> form of Logi-id's and maybe a
> > few other small cleanups... and as said in my previous mail, I will
> > also fill out the Digitale Pioniers application-form this week...
>
> let me know if I could help you on any of this.

I think I'm better at backend-stuff than at css & ui-design, so if you
can help with integrating the UI that would be great. It comes down to
adding pages to the UI (like the peer-groups listing) fishing css from
the pre 481 revision, adapting it to the current UI, and making it all
look good again...

> > I've also been thinking about how to lead users through the comment-
> > process, and how to make things as clear as possible, and for this
> > I am thinking about simple html/ajax-wizzards.
>
> certainly.
> 
> > Like when someone wants to create a new logi it would be usefull
> > to ask the user whether that should be done with the tags of the
> > current location, and if not, with which tags, as I assume that
> > not-so-web-sawwy-people might find it confusing if the current
> > tags are used silently.
> 
> how about implementing the logilogilink as a popover that could
> eventually have a wizzard. For examle, we could get a popover when
> clicking on "new logi" and give the user two options to click "copy
> this logi tags" or "errase tags".

I think we should keep logilogilinks separate from the
popover-wizzards...

And instead of popovers we might also make them pop-in, like the
grey bar with the question at the current pre-alpha. It should show
up when edit is clicked, then show a list of the different edit-
options with maybe a short description, and then allow the user to
select the desired thing to edit (different from what's shown now,
as now it shows all things that can be edited as a second toolbar,
overcrouding the screen):
http://logilogi.org:3000/do/logi/edit/LogiLogi=i100=v2

> This could also be applied to the commenting, where we could just put
> one link (say "add content") and in the popover (wizard) could show
> "logi", "comment", "shout out", etc...?

There would be 2 kinds of comments.

Comments: short, shown like shoutbox messages at the side

Reactions (or a different name): logis linked from this logi
elaborating on it in some way...

> it would be nice if we adopt something like this site-wide and also
> apply it to the logilogilinks in text. I could work on that with
> miguel if you want.

Logi-links are quite different, as these popups/overs/downs should
show up at a fixed location, while the link-popdowns should show next
to the link... I think it's thus best not to over-generalize...

> > And another with comments. Maybe it's a good idea to have 2 kinds
> > of comments. Small comments, or comments, which can be of the
> > classical few-lines type with notices like "Nice idea", or "Did
> > you consider this and thus source, and then still think so ?"
> > (like shoutbox messages) and full responses, which will then be
> > logis themselves.
> >
> > I think that in the end things like these will be what makes the
> > difference for most users, and thus for LogiLogi Manta...
> 
> I totally agree with you. I always think that we should get a standard
> way to claim atention to make a choice. Also the level of "choices"
> shown should go with the level of complexity of the UI you select.

Indeed... (although a single simple UI will probably be what we have
to make first...)

Something else I am thinking about is being able to add links to a
logi by selecting some text, then pushing an 'add-link' button and
then entering the tags & saving... This would require some Javascript
that sends in the selected word-positions, but it would be really
usefull & easy for the users (instead of the current jumble in the
editor)... so if you and miguel could work on something like that it
would be great too...

Wybo

On 10/25/07, Wybo Wiersma <wybo@...> wrote:
> As we've all probably noticed the integration won't be done before
> this weekend. That's sad, but no big disaster, as the integration
> progresses nicely, and it will be done when it's done, and that will
> be soon...
>
> This weekend I will keep things informal at the yearly Dutch Mensa-
> convention in Mennorode. I will take a few print-outs of the UI so
> far, with me, and discuss those with people present there, as well as
> the more general properties of Manta... And besides that I'll just
> enjoy the rest of the convention... :)
>
> What I did today is integrating the menu's, and clean up bits and
> pieces here and there. Also I've been thinking about the logi-id's
> and how they can be made more friendly on the eye.
>
> My idea was something like this: =Eduard_Edison_4 instead of =i127,
> where the first notation would mean it's the 4th logi written by
> the user named Eduard Edison. In that way we have the best of both
> worlds (of uniqueness of the id, and of readabillity)...
>
> Also I think it might be good to get rid of the short user-name for
> the user-page and use the full name there too instead (Wybo_Wiersma,
> instead of wybo). This also because we're using OpenID, and so there
> won't be a practical login-use for shortened names. And also it will
> make a better impression upon visitors from the humanities, who are
> not used to nicknames.
>
> I will just continue with integration at the UI-side this evening
> (probably the searchbar, and further cleanup of the logi), and am
> looking forward to hear what the opinion is about the user-name-
> logi-id's...
>
I see it nice and helps readability. Is this user ID incremental for
any logi he creates sitewide or it starts from cero for each tag(s)?

> ---
>
> Another thing is that I've looked into the new round of the Digitale
> Pioniers Programme, and I think we definitely stand a chance if we
> apply this time, as the special theme this time is 'talent, and
> using one's talents'. And for many Mensans and other non-academic
> in-depth discussion / debate / dialogue -lovers that is exactly what
> LogiLogi Manta will allow them to do! :)
>
> And via an extensive usabillity-test and a then second round of UI-
> optimalizations (general, and specific, like a wizzard, or maybe
> even more advanced stuff) we will be able to facillitate this...
>
> I will come back to the application next week. If anyone wants to be
> involved (Bruno ? Bram ? Andrew ? Artyom ?), please let me know (via
> the list or otherwise), so we can plan and discuss things and fill
> out the application next week...
>
I'm in :)

> Wybo Wiersma
>
> (& as usual the progress of the integration can be seen here:
> http://en.logi-manta.org:3000/)

that would be http://en.logilogi.org:3000 right?


-- 
Bruno

Fetching external item into 'logilogi-test/vendor/plugins/rav'

U    logilogi-test/app/views/layouts/main.rhtml
U    logilogi-test/app/views/logi/show.rhtml
U    logilogi-test/public/stylesheets/logilogi.css

Fetching external item into 'logilogi-test/vendor/plugins/rav'
Checked out external at revision 33.


Fetching external item into 'logilogi-test/vendor/plugins/testcase_setup_and_teardown_with_blocks'
Checked out external at revision 350.


Fetching external item into 'logilogi-test/vendor/plugins/acts_as_ferret'
Checked out external at revision 256.


Fetching external item into 'logilogi-test/vendor/plugins/form_builders'
Checked out external at revision 219.


Fetching external item into 'logilogi-test/vendor/plugins/ym4r_gm'
Checked out external at revision 97.


Fetching external item into 'logilogi-test/vendor/plugins/gems'
Checked out external at revision 3003.


Fetching external item into 'logilogi-test/vendor/plugins/plugins_plus'

(in /tmp/logilogi-test)
-- create_table("global_configs", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.2526s
-- create_table("link_matches", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0373s
-- create_table("link_tags", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0125s
-- create_table("links", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0167s
-- create_table("logi_versions", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0172s
-- create_table("logis", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0138s
-- create_table("peer_group_memberships", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0230s
-- create_table("peer_groups", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0176s
-- create_table("plugin_schema_info", {:force=>true, :id=>false})
   -> 0.0156s
-- create_table("prefs_profiles", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0122s
-- create_table("ratings", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0118s
-- create_table("sessions", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0126s
-- add_index("sessions", ["session_id"], {:name=>"index_sessions_on_session_id"})
   -> 0.0309s
-- create_table("taggings", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0131s
-- create_table("tags", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0125s
-- create_table("user_group_memberships", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0116s
-- create_table("user_groups", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0126s
-- create_table("users", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0125s
-- create_table("votes", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0117s
-- initialize_schema_information()
   -> 0.0007s
-- columns("schema_info")
   -> 0.0011s
-- create_table("global_configs", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0201s
-- create_table("link_matches", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0143s
-- create_table("link_tags", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0123s
-- create_table("links", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0116s
-- create_table("logi_versions", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0116s
-- create_table("logis", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0121s
-- create_table("peer_group_memberships", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0120s
-- create_table("peer_groups", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0119s
-- create_table("plugin_schema_info", {:force=>true, :id=>false})
   -> 0.0122s
-- create_table("prefs_profiles", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0127s
-- create_table("ratings", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0269s
-- create_table("sessions", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0131s
-- add_index("sessions", ["session_id"], {:name=>"index_sessions_on_session_id"})
   -> 0.0147s
-- create_table("taggings", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0135s
-- create_table("tags", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0167s
-- create_table("user_group_memberships", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0114s
-- create_table("user_groups", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0159s
-- create_table("users", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0123s
-- create_table("votes", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0805s
-- initialize_schema_information()
   -> 0.0008s
-- columns("schema_info")
   -> 0.0012s
-- create_table("global_configs", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0204s
-- create_table("link_matches", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0163s
-- create_table("link_tags", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0107s
-- create_table("links", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0121s
-- create_table("logi_versions", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0123s
-- create_table("logis", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0119s
-- create_table("peer_group_memberships", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0119s
-- create_table("peer_groups", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0123s
-- create_table("plugin_schema_info", {:force=>true, :id=>false})
   -> 0.0122s
-- create_table("prefs_profiles", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0157s
-- create_table("ratings", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0123s
-- create_table("sessions", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0127s
-- add_index("sessions", ["session_id"], {:name=>"index_sessions_on_session_id"})
   -> 0.0598s
-- create_table("taggings", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0125s
-- create_table("tags", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0239s
-- create_table("user_group_memberships", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0131s
-- create_table("user_groups", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0158s
-- create_table("users", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0125s
-- create_table("votes", {:force=>true})
   -> 0.0119s
-- initialize_schema_information()
   -> 0.0008s
-- columns("schema_info")
   -> 0.0011s
Loaded suite /usr/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/rake-0.7.3/lib/rake/rake_test_loader
Started
.............................................FFFF..E............F..........................................................
Finished in 28.95682 seconds.

  1) Failure:
test_parsing_resolved_to_s_for_edit(LinkTest)
    [./test/unit/link_test.rb:555:in `assert_equal_string_parsing_for_hashes'
     ./test/unit/link_test.rb:542:in `assert_equal_string_parsing_for_hashes'
     ./test/unit/link_test.rb:397:in `test_parsing_resolved_to_s_for_edit']:
Failure on: tags_language_stance_and_mode, doing: to_s_for_edit for: botanics/peter_abelard@....
<"/botanics/peter_abelard@..."> expected but was
<"/botanics/peter_abelard$stance=critique$mode=transclude">.

  2) Failure:
test_parsing_to_s_for_show(LinkTest)
    [./test/unit/link_test.rb:555:in `assert_equal_string_parsing_for_hashes'
     ./test/unit/link_test.rb:542:in `assert_equal_string_parsing_for_hashes'
     ./test/unit/link_test.rb:406:in `test_parsing_to_s_for_show']:
Failure on: tags_language_stance_and_mode, doing: to_s_for_show for: botanics/peter_abelard@....
<"/botanics/peter_abelard@..."> expected but was
<"/botanics/peter_abelard">.

  3) Failure:
test_parsing_to_s_for_use(LinkTest)
    [./test/unit/link_test.rb:555:in `assert_equal_string_parsing_for_hashes'
     ./test/unit/link_test.rb:542:in `assert_equal_string_parsing_for_hashes'
     ./test/unit/link_test.rb:436:in `test_parsing_to_s_for_use']:
Failure on: tags_language_stance_and_mode, doing: to_s_for_use for: botanics/peter_abelard@....
<"botanics/peter_abelard@..."> expected but was
<"botanics/peter_abelard">.

  4) Failure:
test_parsing_unresolved_to_s_for_edit(LinkTest)
    [./test/unit/link_test.rb:555:in `assert_equal_string_parsing_for_hashes'
     ./test/unit/link_test.rb:542:in `assert_equal_string_parsing_for_hashes'
     ./test/unit/link_test.rb:379:in `test_parsing_unresolved_to_s_for_edit']:
Failure on: tags_language_stance_and_mode, doing: to_s_for_edit for: /botanics/peter_abelard@....
<"/botanics/peter_abelard@..."> expected but was
<"/botanics/peter_abelard$stance=critique$mode=transclude">.

  5) Error:
test_resolve_exceptions(LinkTest):
LinkError: Invalid tag string: peter_abelard#<Logi:0x2b4a39b90448>
    /tmp/logilogi-test/app/models/link.rb:365:in `new_from_s'
    ./test/unit/link_test.rb:300:in `test_resolve_exceptions'

  6) Failure:
test_parsing(LogiTest) [./test/unit/logi_test.rb:41]:
<"=i102"> expected but was
<"#<Logi:0x2b4a39b09b78>">.

123 tests, 564 assertions, 5 failures, 1 errors

Great.

I'll be back in 3-4 hours and be working over the
http://logilogi.demonic.exofire.net/ file.

Later.

On 10/21/07, Artyom Syazantsev <siasiamail@...> wrote:
> Some UI improvements has been made.
> Wybo, please, give me some ideas or hints how can I take LogiLogi(or any
> part of one) up so I could test new layout changes right on live app.
> Maybe we could speek via IRC or ICQ and discuss how could we organize
> the work optimally.
> Currently I'm making changes to a static contents.
> Anyway's here is the diff file for my changes.
> Test page updated.
>
> Index: default.html
> ===================================================================
> --- default.html        (revision 5)
> +++ default.html        (revision 6)
> @@ -8,6 +8,14 @@
>  </head>
>  <body>
>  <div id="header">
> +       <div class="foundation">
> +               <span class="title">Part of the LogiLogi Network:</span>
> +               <a href="#">The LogiLogi Foundation</a>
> +               - <span>LogiLogi.org</span>
> +               - <a href="#">OgOg.org</a>
> +       </div>
> +       <div class="blue-top-line">
> +       </div>
>         <div class="top-line">
>         </div>
>         <div class="content">
> @@ -35,7 +43,7 @@
>                                 </form>
>                         </div>
>                         <div class="result">
> -                               Result: <span><span class="a"><a href="#">Foucault</a></span></span><span><span class="a"><a href="#">Power</a></span></span><span><span class="a"><a href="#">Politics</a></span></span>
> +                               Result: <span><span class="a"><a href="#">Foucault</a></span></span>/<span><span class="a"><a href="#">Power</a></span></span>/<span><span class="a"><a href="#">Politics</a></span></span>
>                         </div>
>                 </div>
>                 <div class="rounded">
> Index: default.css
> ===================================================================
> --- default.css (revision 5)
> +++ default.css (revision 6)
> @@ -16,10 +16,38 @@
>  {
>         background-color: #ffeebf;
>  }
> +#header .foundation
> +{
> +       height: 32px;
> +       background-color: white;
> +       text-align: center;
> +       line-height: 32px;
> +}
> +#header .foundation span
> +{
> +       color: #818cb0;
> +       font-size: 16px;
> +       font-weight: bold;
> +}
> +#header .foundation .title
> +{
> +       color: #adb4cd;
> +}
> +#header .foundation a
> +{
> +       font-size: 16px;
> +       font-weight: bold;
> +       text-decoration: underline;
> +}
> +#header .blue-top-line
> +{
> +       height: 4px;
> +       background-color: #ccccff;
> +}
>  #header .top-line
>  {
> -       height: 8px;
> -       background-color: #304e70;
> +       height: 2px;
> +       background-color: white;
>  }
>  #header .content
>  {
> @@ -64,9 +92,11 @@
>  {
>         padding-left: 8px;
>         margin-bottom: 5px;
> +       font-weight: bold;
>  }
>  #query-block span
>  {
> +       font-weight: normal;
>         margin-right: 5px;
>         background-image: url("images/result-right.png");
>         background-color: #e6c673;
> @@ -75,6 +105,7 @@
>         padding-right: 4px;
>         padding-bottom: 2px;
>         padding-top: 2px;
> +       margin-left: 5px;
>  }
>  #query-block span .a
>  {
> @@ -83,10 +114,11 @@
>         padding-right: 2px;
>         padding-left: 4px;
>         margin-right: 0px;
> +       margin-left: 0px;
>         background-color: none;
>         background-image: url("images/result-left.png");
>         background-repeat: no-repeat;
> -       background-position: left;
> +       background-position: left;
>  }
>  #query-block span a
>  {
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc.
> Still grepping through log files to find problems?  Stop.
> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser.
> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/
> _______________________________________________
> LogiLogi-list mailing list
> LogiLogi-list@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/logilogi-list
>
>


-- 
Bruno

I'm online on #logilogi currently, but working on php side project right 
now.
If you'd like to ask any questions be free to do it.

Original message from Bruno Sarlo follows:
> Artyom,
>
> Just to tell you I'm online right now and will be working over your file.
>
> I guess you are sleeping right now.
>
> Later.
>
> On 10/21/07, Bruno Sarlo <brunosarlo@...> wrote:
>   
>> Great.
>>
>> I'll be back in 3-4 hours and be working over the
>> http://logilogi.demonic.exofire.net/ file.
>>
>> Later.
>>
>> On 10/21/07, Artyom Syazantsev <siasiamail@...> wrote:
>>     
>>> Some UI improvements has been made.
>>> Wybo, please, give me some ideas or hints how can I take LogiLogi(or any
>>> part of one) up so I could test new layout changes right on live app.
>>> Maybe we could speek via IRC or ICQ and discuss how could we organize
>>> the work optimally.
>>> Currently I'm making changes to a static contents.
>>> Anyway's here is the diff file for my changes.
>>> Test page updated.
>>>
>>> Index: default.html
>>> ===================================================================
>>> --- default.html        (revision 5)
>>> +++ default.html        (revision 6)
>>> @@ -8,6 +8,14 @@
>>>  </head>
>>>  <body>
>>>  <div id="header">
>>> +       <div class="foundation">
>>> +               <span class="title">Part of the LogiLogi Network:</span>
>>> +               <a href="#">The LogiLogi Foundation</a>
>>> +               - <span>LogiLogi.org</span>
>>> +               - <a href="#">OgOg.org</a>
>>> +       </div>
>>> +       <div class="blue-top-line">
>>> +       </div>
>>>         <div class="top-line">
>>>         </div>
>>>         <div class="content">
>>> @@ -35,7 +43,7 @@
>>>                                 </form>
>>>                         </div>
>>>                         <div class="result">
>>> -                               Result: <span><span class="a"><a href="#">Foucault</a></span></span><span><span class="a"><a href="#">Power</a></span></span><span><span class="a"><a href="#">Politics</a></span></span>
>>> +                               Result: <span><span class="a"><a href="#">Foucault</a></span></span>/<span><span class="a"><a href="#">Power</a></span></span>/<span><span class="a"><a href="#">Politics</a></span></span>
>>>                         </div>
>>>                 </div>
>>>                 <div class="rounded">
>>> Index: default.css
>>> ===================================================================
>>> --- default.css (revision 5)
>>> +++ default.css (revision 6)
>>> @@ -16,10 +16,38 @@
>>>  {
>>>         background-color: #ffeebf;
>>>  }
>>> +#header .foundation
>>> +{
>>> +       height: 32px;
>>> +       background-color: white;
>>> +       text-align: center;
>>> +       line-height: 32px;
>>> +}
>>> +#header .foundation span
>>> +{
>>> +       color: #818cb0;
>>> +       font-size: 16px;
>>> +       font-weight: bold;
>>> +}
>>> +#header .foundation .title
>>> +{
>>> +       color: #adb4cd;
>>> +}
>>> +#header .foundation a
>>> +{
>>> +       font-size: 16px;
>>> +       font-weight: bold;
>>> +       text-decoration: underline;
>>> +}
>>> +#header .blue-top-line
>>> +{
>>> +       height: 4px;
>>> +       background-color: #ccccff;
>>> +}
>>>  #header .top-line
>>>  {
>>> -       height: 8px;
>>> -       background-color: #304e70;
>>> +       height: 2px;
>>> +       background-color: white;
>>>  }
>>>  #header .content
>>>  {
>>> @@ -64,9 +92,11 @@
>>>  {
>>>         padding-left: 8px;
>>>         margin-bottom: 5px;
>>> +       font-weight: bold;
>>>  }
>>>  #query-block span
>>>  {
>>> +       font-weight: normal;
>>>         margin-right: 5px;
>>>         background-image: url("images/result-right.png");
>>>         background-color: #e6c673;
>>> @@ -75,6 +105,7 @@
>>>         padding-right: 4px;
>>>         padding-bottom: 2px;
>>>         padding-top: 2px;
>>> +       margin-left: 5px;
>>>  }
>>>  #query-block span .a
>>>  {
>>> @@ -83,10 +114,11 @@
>>>         padding-right: 2px;
>>>         padding-left: 4px;
>>>         margin-right: 0px;
>>> +       margin-left: 0px;
>>>         background-color: none;
>>>         background-image: url("images/result-left.png");
>>>         background-repeat: no-repeat;
>>> -       background-position: left;
>>> +       background-position: left;
>>>  }
>>>  #query-block span a
>>>  {
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc.
>>> Still grepping through log files to find problems?  Stop.
>>> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser.
>>> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> LogiLogi-list mailing list
>>> LogiLogi-list@...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/logilogi-list
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> --
>> Bruno
>>
>>     
>
>
>

Artyom,

Just to tell you I'm online right now and will be working over your file.

I guess you are sleeping right now.

Later.

On 10/21/07, Bruno Sarlo <brunosarlo@...> wrote:
> Great.
>
> I'll be back in 3-4 hours and be working over the
> http://logilogi.demonic.exofire.net/ file.
>
> Later.
>
> On 10/21/07, Artyom Syazantsev <siasiamail@...> wrote:
> > Some UI improvements has been made.
> > Wybo, please, give me some ideas or hints how can I take LogiLogi(or any
> > part of one) up so I could test new layout changes right on live app.
> > Maybe we could speek via IRC or ICQ and discuss how could we organize
> > the work optimally.
> > Currently I'm making changes to a static contents.
> > Anyway's here is the diff file for my changes.
> > Test page updated.
> >
> > Index: default.html
> > ===================================================================
> > --- default.html        (revision 5)
> > +++ default.html        (revision 6)
> > @@ -8,6 +8,14 @@
> >  </head>
> >  <body>
> >  <div id="header">
> > +       <div class="foundation">
> > +               <span class="title">Part of the LogiLogi Network:</span>
> > +               <a href="#">The LogiLogi Foundation</a>
> > +               - <span>LogiLogi.org</span>
> > +               - <a href="#">OgOg.org</a>
> > +       </div>
> > +       <div class="blue-top-line">
> > +       </div>
> >         <div class="top-line">
> >         </div>
> >         <div class="content">
> > @@ -35,7 +43,7 @@
> >                                 </form>
> >                         </div>
> >                         <div class="result">
> > -                               Result: <span><span class="a"><a href="#">Foucault</a></span></span><span><span class="a"><a href="#">Power</a></span></span><span><span class="a"><a href="#">Politics</a></span></span>
> > +                               Result: <span><span class="a"><a href="#">Foucault</a></span></span>/<span><span class="a"><a href="#">Power</a></span></span>/<span><span class="a"><a href="#">Politics</a></span></span>
> >                         </div>
> >                 </div>
> >                 <div class="rounded">
> > Index: default.css
> > ===================================================================
> > --- default.css (revision 5)
> > +++ default.css (revision 6)
> > @@ -16,10 +16,38 @@
> >  {
> >         background-color: #ffeebf;
> >  }
> > +#header .foundation
> > +{
> > +       height: 32px;
> > +       background-color: white;
> > +       text-align: center;
> > +       line-height: 32px;
> > +}
> > +#header .foundation span
> > +{
> > +       color: #818cb0;
> > +       font-size: 16px;
> > +       font-weight: bold;
> > +}
> > +#header .foundation .title
> > +{
> > +       color: #adb4cd;
> > +}
> > +#header .foundation a
> > +{
> > +       font-size: 16px;
> > +       font-weight: bold;
> > +       text-decoration: underline;
> > +}
> > +#header .blue-top-line
> > +{
> > +       height: 4px;
> > +       background-color: #ccccff;
> > +}
> >  #header .top-line
> >  {
> > -       height: 8px;
> > -       background-color: #304e70;
> > +       height: 2px;
> > +       background-color: white;
> >  }
> >  #header .content
> >  {
> > @@ -64,9 +92,11 @@
> >  {
> >         padding-left: 8px;
> >         margin-bottom: 5px;
> > +       font-weight: bold;
> >  }
> >  #query-block span
> >  {
> > +       font-weight: normal;
> >         margin-right: 5px;
> >         background-image: url("images/result-right.png");
> >         background-color: #e6c673;
> > @@ -75,6 +105,7 @@
> >         padding-right: 4px;
> >         padding-bottom: 2px;
> >         padding-top: 2px;
> > +       margin-left: 5px;
> >  }
> >  #query-block span .a
> >  {
> > @@ -83,10 +114,11 @@
> >         padding-right: 2px;
> >         padding-left: 4px;
> >         margin-right: 0px;
> > +       margin-left: 0px;
> >         background-color: none;
> >         background-image: url("images/result-left.png");
> >         background-repeat: no-repeat;
> > -       background-position: left;
> > +       background-position: left;
> >  }
> >  #query-block span a
> >  {
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc.
> > Still grepping through log files to find problems?  Stop.
> > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser.
> > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> > LogiLogi-list mailing list
> > LogiLogi-list@...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/logilogi-list
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Bruno
>


-- 
Bruno

First of all I'm terribly sorry for not being there last night. The
people in who'se house we stayed, allowed us to stay for longer, so I
went back to the mainland only this morning. My mother and sister are
still there untill wednesday.

Artyom I just did integrate your patch in the working version. What
problems are you having exactly with running the current version of
Manta ? Did you get error-messages of libraries during the 
installation process according to the installation-notes at:
http://www.logilogi.org/pub/mantadocs/app/ ?
(and what are you using, the snapshot or the full SVN-install ?)

I have an exam tomorrow, but I will be online on #logilogi and working
on the integration this evening as of around 22:00 UTC (21:00
Amsterdam time). Currently I am fixing a few bugs in the pre-alpha,
and getting it back up at http://logilogi.org:3000/ like before.

Besides, I just received the files from Andrew with his apologies. I
cannot go into the reasons why he was this late, as his mail to me and
the teacher was strictly personal. I am now looking at his files, and
I included them in the trunk for reference. They're static files and
online here: http://logilogi.org:3000/gip-logilogi/main.html

I must admit that they don't look bad at all, but they are sadly late,
and Artyom's UI in this sense has a moral pre. Still I think we will
have to somehow vote this evening on which UI-basis to build onto,
eventhough in any case I will personally try to keep the best of both
for inclusion in whichever version is chosen by us this evening...

greetings,

Wybo

> I'm online on #logilogi currently, but working on php side project right 
> now.
> If you'd like to ask any questions be free to do it.

Now I'm working in the office so I'd send you the error log later when I
would be at home.
I have not seen any obvious errors that I know how to
solve. All unit tests run without error or warnings. But mongrel gives
internal server error.

When would be online in the nearest
future so we could solve my installation problems fast.

2007/10/22, Wybo Wiersma <wybo@...>:
>
> First of all I'm terribly sorry for not being there last night. The
> people in who'se house we stayed, allowed us to stay for longer, so I
> went back to the mainland only this morning. My mother and sister are
> still there untill wednesday.
>
> Artyom I just did integrate your patch in the working version. What
> problems are you having exactly with running the current version of
> Manta ? Did you get error-messages of libraries during the
> installation process according to the installation-notes at:
> http://www.logilogi.org/pub/mantadocs/app/ ?
> (and what are you using, the snapshot or the full SVN-install ?)
>
> I have an exam tomorrow, but I will be online on #logilogi and working
> on the integration this evening as of around 22:00 UTC (21:00
> Amsterdam time). Currently I am fixing a few bugs in the pre-alpha,
> and getting it back up at http://logilogi.org:3000/ like before.
>
> Besides, I just received the files from Andrew with his apologies. I
> cannot go into the reasons why he was this late, as his mail to me and
> the teacher was strictly personal. I am now looking at his files, and
> I included them in the trunk for reference. They're static files and
> online here: http://logilogi.org:3000/gip-logilogi/main.html
>
> I must admit that they don't look bad at all, but they are sadly late,
> and Artyom's UI in this sense has a moral pre. Still I think we will
> have to somehow vote this evening on which UI-basis to build onto,
> eventhough in any case I will personally try to keep the best of both
> for inclusion in whichever version is chosen by us this evening...
>
> greetings,
>
> Wybo
>
> > I'm online on #logilogi currently, but working on php side project right
> > now.
> > If you'd like to ask any questions be free to do it.
>

I'll work on LL over the weekend. I now also have broadband internet
connection here in Buenos Aires and I'm much comfortable working at
home.

Artyom, I'll get online at #logilogi at IRC so we can work together. I
don't want to interfere in your work as you've done most of the way
already and you also work very fast. Let me know which parts you could
delegate to me, maybe you can work more over ruby integration if you
think better... let me know.

I'll get online tomorrow.

Greetings

On 10/19/07, Wybo Wiersma <wybo@...> wrote:
> > thanks! I hope it does for the users too, we still have a long way to
> > go, we want to add some ajax here and there to make it more dynamic,
> > but we'll do it over time.
>
> Ok. For Manta over time some Ajax for the query-box would be nice too ;)
>
> > > With Bruno too, we should be able to do quite a bit. A downside of the
> > > weekend is that we (I, brother, sister & mother) for the saturday-night
> > > will be staying on a Dutch island (Ameland) to take a short rest, so I
> > > won't be online around saturday-night (but on friday & sunday)...
> >
> > I'll be back to Bs.As. tonight and get organized to be able to work
> > with LL over weekend.
>
> 'k Great. I hope the png I put online this week gives some indication of where
> it should be going...
>
> Sadly enough we will be leaving tomorrow in the morning quite early. What I was
> able to do this afternoon are some controller-fixes and a few partial (parts of
> content of the UI) bugfixes... Will try to do a few more if possible...
>
> In the meantime I already put the slides of my presentation of last weekend
> online here as someone from the conference requested them:
> http://logilogi.org/pub/TDosePresentation/TDose.html
>
> A notable change is a thanks to the board members of the foundation, and - not
> the least - to all (most) of you!
>
> Besides this there is also a movie available of the presentation, and I am
> receiving that one now (will put it online when I get back on sunday).
>
> Sorry that I couldn't do more today,
> and really looking forward to your & Artyoms UI-improvements,
>
> Wybo
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc.
> Still grepping through log files to find problems?  Stop.
> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser.
> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/
> _______________________________________________
> LogiLogi-list mailing list
> LogiLogi-list@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/logilogi-list
>


-- 
Bruno

Of course you know the backend structure much better them myself, so be 
free to make your UI integration.
Which is our irc server?
Also please provide time in UTC you'd be online. I'd like to discuss 
some ruby driven css hacks so we could integrate them as fast as we can 
to support all browsers on required level.

Original message from Bruno Sarlo follows:
> I'll work on LL over the weekend. I now also have broadband internet
> connection here in Buenos Aires and I'm much comfortable working at
> home.
>
> Artyom, I'll get online at #logilogi at IRC so we can work together. I
> don't want to interfere in your work as you've done most of the way
> already and you also work very fast. Let me know which parts you could
> delegate to me, maybe you can work more over ruby integration if you
> think better... let me know.
>
> I'll get online tomorrow.
>
> Greetings
>
> On 10/19/07, Wybo Wiersma <wybo@...> wrote:
>   
>>> thanks! I hope it does for the users too, we still have a long way to
>>> go, we want to add some ajax here and there to make it more dynamic,
>>> but we'll do it over time.
>>>       
>> Ok. For Manta over time some Ajax for the query-box would be nice too ;)
>>
>>     
>>>> With Bruno too, we should be able to do quite a bit. A downside of the
>>>> weekend is that we (I, brother, sister & mother) for the saturday-night
>>>> will be staying on a Dutch island (Ameland) to take a short rest, so I
>>>> won't be online around saturday-night (but on friday & sunday)...
>>>>         
>>> I'll be back to Bs.As. tonight and get organized to be able to work
>>> with LL over weekend.
>>>       
>> 'k Great. I hope the png I put online this week gives some indication of where
>> it should be going...
>>
>> Sadly enough we will be leaving tomorrow in the morning quite early. What I was
>> able to do this afternoon are some controller-fixes and a few partial (parts of
>> content of the UI) bugfixes... Will try to do a few more if possible...
>>
>> In the meantime I already put the slides of my presentation of last weekend
>> online here as someone from the conference requested them:
>> http://logilogi.org/pub/TDosePresentation/TDose.html
>>
>> A notable change is a thanks to the board members of the foundation, and - not
>> the least - to all (most) of you!
>>
>> Besides this there is also a movie available of the presentation, and I am
>> receiving that one now (will put it online when I get back on sunday).
>>
>> Sorry that I couldn't do more today,
>> and really looking forward to your & Artyoms UI-improvements,
>>
>> Wybo
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc.
>> Still grepping through log files to find problems?  Stop.
>> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser.
>> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> LogiLogi-list mailing list
>> LogiLogi-list@...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/logilogi-list
>>
>>     
>
>
>

We're leaving in 20 minutes...

> Of course you know the backend structure much better them myself, so be
> free to make your UI integration.

Mostly it will be a matter of replacing links and copying over bits of css from
the 481-svn-version... Also some links will need adding, and some bits of code
(drop-down- menu, and rating-bar) can more or less directly be copied over from
OgOg (except from their looks).

> Which is our irc server?

irc.freenode.net

till sunday,

Wybo

Still cannot get logilogi to work. Is this really ok or I'm doing 
something wrong?

Original message from Wybo Wiersma follows:
> We're leaving in 20 minutes...
>
>   
>> Of course you know the backend structure much better them myself, so be
>> free to make your UI integration.
>>     
>
> Mostly it will be a matter of replacing links and copying over bits of css from
> the 481-svn-version... Also some links will need adding, and some bits of code
> (drop-down- menu, and rating-bar) can more or less directly be copied over from
> OgOg (except from their looks).
>
>   
>> Which is our irc server?
>>     
>
> irc.freenode.net
>
> till sunday,
>
> Wybo
>
>

I'm online and will be online for 3 hours more.

On 10/20/07, Artyom Syazantsev <siasiamail@...> wrote:
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc.
> Still grepping through log files to find problems?  Stop.
> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser.
> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/
> _______________________________________________
> LogiLogi-list mailing list
> LogiLogi-list@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/logilogi-list
>
>


-- 
Bruno

Looks like we have been somewhat missed each other.

Original message from Bruno Sarlo follows:
> I'm online and will be online for 3 hours more.
>
> On 10/20/07, Artyom Syazantsev <siasiamail@...> wrote:
>   
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc.
>> Still grepping through log files to find problems?  Stop.
>> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser.
>> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> LogiLogi-list mailing list
>> LogiLogi-list@...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/logilogi-list
>>
>>
>>     
>
>
>