On Friday 02 June 2006 06:31 am, Jeffrey Hoyt wrote:
> It's possible. It would require tight integration among all the
> included plugins, though, to keep them up to date in sync with new
> jEdit changes.
Of course this is precisely the benefit to the user: getting a set of plugins
that really can and do integrate well to do some large-ish task. If the
plugin authors do not coordinate, it will never happen, but at least it makes
it possible for a group of plugin authors to package their work in meaningful
chunks.
> Personally, I avoid plugins that have lots of dependencies unless I
> REALLY want some functionality, so I don't like it on a philosophical
> level. But I know others have a very differnt philosophy and it's a
> plugin - Luddites like me can just not install it. :oD
Right, this is just additional behavior of the installer mechanism, not
affecting anyone who doesn't wish to use it. Debian's meta-packages are a
great model.
Andy
>
> Jeff
>
> On 6/1/06, Dale Anson <danson@...> wrote:
> > Trying this again, sourceforge is having mail problems today, my first
> > attempt bounced...
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 07:23:58 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Dale Anson <danson@...>
> > To: jEdit Development List <jedit-devel@...>
> > Subject: Re: [ jEdit-users ] java dev platform (fwd)
> >
> > This thread started on the jEdit user list, thought I'd send it to the
> > developer list to ask a question of the packagers. The discussion is
> > about creating a single plugin that does nothing, it just has as
> > dependencies a core set of "related" plugins. This would make it easier
> > for a new user to jEdit to install, for example, a single "java
> > development" plugin and get a set of plugins that make editing java code
> > easier. Does this sound reasonable from a packaging and distribution
> > viewpoint?
> >
> > Dale
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 18:36:49 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Dale Anson <danson@...>
> > Cc: jedit-users@...
> > Subject: Re: [ jEdit-users ] java dev platform
> >
> > Here's a partial list of the plugins that I have installed, maybe this
> > is an
> > initial cut at what to include in a "J2EE IDE plugin" for jEdit. Mostly
> > I do
> > J2EE development at work, this list works pretty well to support that
> > work, so
> > I think this is a pretty good list to start with. I've got Antelope
> > listed, AntFarm could be substituted with no problem. I've got both
> > AStyle and JavaStyle listed, they are different enough that I sometimes
> > use both.
> >
> >
> > Project Management:
> > ProjectViewer
> >
> > File Management:
> > BufferList -- there are other file management tools out there, and in
> > fact, I'm
> > using a modified version of the original BufferList, so maybe there is
> > something better? I know there is a BufferTabs plugin and Eclipse uses
> > tabs,
> > so maybe that is a better choice.
> >
> > Code Browsing:
> > SideKick
> > HtmlSideKick
> > JavaSideKick
> > JavaScriptSideKick
> > XML
> > Navigator
> > -- might want to include the Perl and PHP plugins? I've got a sidekick
> > for property files that I should get released, turns out to be pretty
> > useful.
> >
> > Build:
> > Antelope -- could use AntFarm since it is in jEdit CVS and is being
> > maintained
> > again.
> >
> > Utilities:
> > -- some of these optional, but I find them all pretty handy.
> > BufferLocal
> > Calculator -- handy for those occasional hex math needs
> > CharacterMap -- handy for those occasional odd characters
> > Code2HTML -- nice for creating code examples to post on web pages
> > Console -- required
> > ErrorList -- required
> > InfoViewer -- handy for looking at html JCounter -- nice for code
> > statistics JDiff -- should be required
> >
> > Formatting:
> > Beauty -- need both JavaStyle and XmlIndenter modified to work with this
> > AStyle
> > JavaStyle
> > XmlIndenter
> >
> > Need:
> > Debugger (? or not)
> > SCM integration (? or not)
> > API Viewer (new JavaSideKick feature?)
> > Hyperlinker (new JavaSideKick feature?)
> >
> > what else?
> >
> >
> > Another thing I noticed that I don't have is an SQL tool. I use
> > DBConsole as a
> > standalone app (dbconsole.sourceforge.net), but I know there are a
> > couple of
> > SQL plugins for jEdit.
> >
> > So -- how about some feedback on this list, and we see about getting
> > some short
> > of plugin going that incorporates a generally agreeable list?
> >
> > Dale
> >
> > On Mon, 29 May 2006, Andy Streich wrote:
> > > On Monday 29 May 2006 02:23 pm, Dale Anson wrote:
> > > > About integrated debuggers -- I've been doing Java work since the
> > > > first beta version of Java, back in 1995 (? 1996 maybe?) anyway,
> > > > about 10 years. I've never found the need for a debugger. I quit
> > > > using debuggers when I quit doing C and C++ work. Seriously, I've
> > > > never found anything that I couldn't debug with either simple
> > > > System.out.println's or perhaps a logger of some sort. I really
> > > > don't see the value of having an integrated debugger for Java
> > > > development, but, of course, that's just my opinion.
> > >
> > > Certainly there are nearly as many ways of working as there are people
> > > who write code. For me, with respect to a debugger being needed in a
> > > tool that wants to be called an IDE, it is all about productivity and
> > > learning. Yes, given enough time most anything can be debugged with
> > > println(). With a debugger, though, (and modern ones are fabulous) you
> > > can see call stacks, stack frames, and active threads without modifying
> > > your code -- which means developers have less excuse for not
> > > understanding what's going on and can find out faster. It can also be
> > > useful for things you might not normally think of like checking
> > > correctness of, or clarifying, API documentation.
> > >
> > > > Another thing I didn't see mentioned is SCM integration. jEdit has
> > > > plugins for CVS and Perforce, and I have a set of macros that I use,
> > > > but to me, this is one of the few things that I switch away from
> > > > jEdit to use.
> > >
> > > This is a bit of a theme on this thread: jEdit has plugins for X or
> > > macros can be written to do X, but we switch to other tools -- I assume
> > > because they
> > > do X more efficiently or a plugin maintainer when on to other things
> > > or why bother to write the macro or plugin if you already have an
> > > effective solution.
> > >
> > > > I recall some time ago there was talk on this list about creating
> > > > different "distributions" of jEdit, like jEdit with a bundle of
> > > > plugins for Java development that would include a good set of java
> > > > plugins, one for web development that would have html, php, and
> > > > javascript support, and so on.
> > >
> > > I was one of the people rather high on the idea. It's like
> > > meta-packages in the Debian GNU/Linux distro. The meta package simply
> > > creates a dependency on
> > > other packages. Seems rather simple to implement too since some
> > > dependency checking is already in place.
> > >
> > > Currently, to deliver a particular configuration of jEdit to someone,
> > > you are
> > > completely on your own. If they have used jEdit before or if you want
> > > to deliver a subset of what you are using, it's not as simple as just
> > > zipping the files under ${user.home}.jEdit.
> > >
> > > A related idea is creating a smooth way to associate things like new
> > > mode and
> > > commando files with a plugin install, perhaps in the manner similar to
> > > what is done for macro's now.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------
> > > All the advantages of Linux Managed Hosting--Without the Cost and
> > > Risk! Fully trained technicians. The highest number of Red Hat
> > > certifications in the hosting industry. Fanatical Support. Click to
> > > learn more
> > >
> > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=107521&bid=248729&dat=12164
> > >2 --
> > > -----------------------------------------------
> > > jEdit Users' List
> > > jEdit-users@...
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jedit-users
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > All the advantages of Linux Managed Hosting--Without the Cost and Risk!
> > Fully trained technicians. The highest number of Red Hat certifications
> > in the hosting industry. Fanatical Support. Click to learn more
> > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=107521&bid=248729&dat=121642
> > --
> > -----------------------------------------------
> > jEdit Users' List
> > jEdit-users@...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jedit-users
> >
> >
> > --
> > -----------------------------------------------
> > jEdit Developers' List
> > jEdit-devel@...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jedit-devel
>
> --
> They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
> safety deserve neither.
|
