The Freenet Project

right.  that's basically what i meant when i said:
"Are we forced to do something like pass to the submitter a key to use that
 we'll check up on later?"

Seems less than ideal but i suppose workable.  We'd need to write our own little
app to do it, would we?

I guess I'll check out the applications that Ian suggested and then pass along a
note with a plan of some sort.  --j

On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 02:17:49PM -0500, john@... wrote:
> hey josh.....i think maybe the in freenet key indices are what you want here.
> i saw this a while ago, but can't find any relevant documentation for it
> at the moment.  basically the idea goes something like:
> 
> 1) i want to submit to something identified by xxxxxxxx
> 2) i poke about freenet looking for xxxxxxxx-1
> 3) if i find it, i look for xxxxxxxx-2,3,n,n+1...
> 4) when i've figured out the n such that xxxxxxxx-n is not taken, i
> stick a pointer to my data there	
> 
> A) i want to accept submissions identified by xxxxxxxxx
> B) i poke about freenet looking for xxxxxxxxx-n, where n>the last n i managed 
> to find
> 
> or something like that......
> has all the freenet documentation gone inside of freenet or something?  
> there seemed to be a lot more of it at one point.
> 
> john
> 
> -- 
> 
> this is where my public key can be found:
> gpg --keyserver http://www.keyserver.net --recv-keys 03817826
> Key fingerprint = 6C11 8D70 2ADE EFA9 498D  72CB 77EA 391A 0381 7826
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Freenet-imc mailing list
> Freenet-imc@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freenet-imc

On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 02:17:49PM -0500, john@... wrote:
> hey josh.....i think maybe the in freenet key indices are what you want h=
ere.
> i saw this a while ago, but can't find any relevant documentation for it
> at the moment.  basically the idea goes something like:
>=20
> 1) i want to submit to something identified by xxxxxxxx
> 2) i poke about freenet looking for xxxxxxxx-1
> 3) if i find it, i look for xxxxxxxx-2,3,n,n+1...
> 4) when i've figured out the n such that xxxxxxxx-n is not taken, i
> stick a pointer to my data there=09
>=20
> A) i want to accept submissions identified by xxxxxxxxx
> B) i poke about freenet looking for xxxxxxxxx-n, where n>the last n i man=
aged=20
> to find
>=20
CoN has something like this. Have a look.
But you do ideally need something like KeyIndexClient built into fproxy,
where it automatically finds the latest key. And it will be spammable,
anonymously.
> or something like that......
> has all the freenet documentation gone inside of freenet or something? =
=20
> there seemed to be a lot more of it at one point.
>=20
> john
>=20
> --=20
>=20
> this is where my public key can be found:
> gpg --keyserver http://www.keyserver.net --recv-keys 03817826
> Key fingerprint =3D 6C11 8D70 2ADE EFA9 498D  72CB 77EA 391A 0381 7826
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Freenet-imc mailing list
> Freenet-imc@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freenet-imc

--=20
The road to Tycho is paved with good intentions

On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 08:14:50PM +0000, toad wrote:
> CoN has something like this. Have a look.
> But you do ideally need something like KeyIndexClient built into fproxy,
> where it automatically finds the latest key. And it will be spammable,
> anonymously.

gotcha.  and hey, the anonymous spam could be considered a feature: free 
traffic analysis masking.  I wonder if we'd need to have a human go through
submissions & if IMC folks would be willing to accept that.  My initial
guess is yes on both counts.  --j

On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Josh Marcus wrote:

> gotcha.  and hey, the anonymous spam could be considered a feature: free
> traffic analysis masking.  I wonder if we'd need to have a human go through
> submissions & if IMC folks would be willing to accept that.  My initial
> guess is yes on both counts.  --j

Really, it's a silly point.

There are plenty of ways for infomation that's "unstable" to propogate the
net this way already. Anonymous email/anonymous news is a fine way.

For anything more permanent, Freenet is good.

Mail and other things over Freenet has always seemed a bit silly to me.

- Serge Wroclawski

-- 
"If you try to call the nested function through its address after the
containing function has exited, all hell will break loose." - St IGNUcius

The idea, however, is to allow for the anonymous submission of documents
to become a permanent resource.  Is it as simple as using anonymous remailers
for submission?  Are there enough trusted remailers that aren't getting
killed by spammers?  

Certainly other people could simply publish their own "indymedia" freenet 
submissions and the freenet indymedia site could link to them, but better
to try and map indymedia into freenet if possible.

--j 


On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 03:46:22PM -0500, Serge Wroclawski wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Josh Marcus wrote:
> 
> > gotcha.  and hey, the anonymous spam could be considered a feature: free
> > traffic analysis masking.  I wonder if we'd need to have a human go through
> > submissions & if IMC folks would be willing to accept that.  My initial
> > guess is yes on both counts.  --j
> 
> Really, it's a silly point.
> 
> There are plenty of ways for infomation that's "unstable" to propogate the
> net this way already. Anonymous email/anonymous news is a fine way.
> 
> For anything more permanent, Freenet is good.
> 
> Mail and other things over Freenet has always seemed a bit silly to me.
> 
> - Serge Wroclawski
> 
> -- 
> "If you try to call the nested function through its address after the
> containing function has exited, all hell will break loose." - St IGNUcius
>

On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 11:49:09AM -0800, .:.:cburn:.:. wrote:
> freenet node on kropotkin.indymedia.org has been updated. check out the
> new version of fproxy (see below). this is probably a good time for imc
> dev people to take a look at this and begin to brainstorm
> how to push data into this node for published stories.

Anyone interested should also take a look at "FreeWeb"=20
(http://freeweb.sf.net/).  It is a piece of Windows software=20
designed to allow publishing of websites into Freenet.

Ian.

--=20
Ian Clarke                                        ian@...
Founder & Coordinator, The Freenet Project    http://freenetproject.org/
Chief Technology Officer, Uprizer Inc.           http://www.uprizer.com/

I'd like to start working on this.  Is there anyone else who would like
to do such a thing?

Also -- is there a way to accept submissions through freenet?  I've read
the technical papers on Freenet but I don't understand how one can implement
a 'post' or a 'get' or a general submission.  But it must be possible
if people are implementing freenet chats, etc.  --j


On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 09:40:13AM -0800, Ian Clarke wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 11:49:09AM -0800, .:.:cburn:.:. wrote:
> > freenet node on kropotkin.indymedia.org has been updated. check out the
> > new version of fproxy (see below). this is probably a good time for imc
> > dev people to take a look at this and begin to brainstorm
> > how to push data into this node for published stories.
> 
> Anyone interested should also take a look at "FreeWeb" 
> (http://freeweb.sf.net/).  It is a piece of Windows software 
> designed to allow publishing of websites into Freenet.
> 
> Ian.
> 
> -- 
> Ian Clarke                                        ian@...
> Founder & Coordinator, The Freenet Project    http://freenetproject.org/
> Chief Technology Officer, Uprizer Inc.           http://www.uprizer.com/

On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 12:43:04PM -0500, Josh Marcus wrote:
> Also -- is there a way to accept submissions through freenet?  I've read
> the technical papers on Freenet but I don't understand how one can implem=
ent
> a 'post' or a 'get' or a general submission.  But it must be possible
> if people are implementing freenet chats, etc.  --j

If you want to write third-party software to insert and request information
from Freenet, you can use the "Freenet Client Protocol" (FCP), a simple
text-based protocol that every Freenet node supports - read more at:
  http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Main/FreenetClientProtocol

If you are not interested in writing a piece of software, there are a varie=
ty=20
of options for inserting files into Freenet.

You can use FProxy, the web interface built in to Freenet that can be acces=
sed=20
via http://127.0.0.1:8888/ - this is good for uploading single files, but n=
ot=20
very useful beyond that.

You can use FreeWeb, ideally suited for uploading entire websites on a regu=
lar=20
basis from Windows.

You can use FCPtools, effectively a command-line version of FreeWeb availab=
le=20
for Windows and Linux.

Finally, FreeWeb/FCPtools' author is David McNab, I am sure if you have any
problems or suggestions, he would love to hear them - his email address is
david@....

Ian.

--=20
Ian Clarke                                        ian@...
Founder & Coordinator, The Freenet Project    http://freenetproject.org/
Chief Technology Officer, Uprizer Inc.           http://www.uprizer.com/

Ian,

Thanks you for your response!

My question is slightly different than that.  

Imagine that indymedia established a signed-subspace key, and published pages
"within" the subspace.  I understand how to do that.  And we effectively have
"GET / HTTP 1.0" functionality.  But now I want to accept submissions over
Freenet, anonymously.  Right now, indymedia accepts submissions using html forms --
so we need form variables, etc. or any other way to accept submissions over
freenet so that we can process them and then add pages *based but not identical*
to the submissions within our subspace.  Any pointers on how to pull that off?
Are we forced to do something like pass to the submitter a key to use that
we'll check up on later?

--j 


On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 09:54:25AM -0800, Ian Clarke wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 12:43:04PM -0500, Josh Marcus wrote:
> > Also -- is there a way to accept submissions through freenet?  I've read
> > the technical papers on Freenet but I don't understand how one can implement
> > a 'post' or a 'get' or a general submission.  But it must be possible
> > if people are implementing freenet chats, etc.  --j
> 
> If you want to write third-party software to insert and request information
> from Freenet, you can use the "Freenet Client Protocol" (FCP), a simple
> text-based protocol that every Freenet node supports - read more at:
>   http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Main/FreenetClientProtocol
> 
> If you are not interested in writing a piece of software, there are a variety 
> of options for inserting files into Freenet.
> 
> You can use FProxy, the web interface built in to Freenet that can be accessed 
> via http://127.0.0.1:8888/ - this is good for uploading single files, but not 
> very useful beyond that.
> 
> You can use FreeWeb, ideally suited for uploading entire websites on a regular 
> basis from Windows.
> 
> You can use FCPtools, effectively a command-line version of FreeWeb available 
> for Windows and Linux.
> 
> Finally, FreeWeb/FCPtools' author is David McNab, I am sure if you have any
> problems or suggestions, he would love to hear them - his email address is
> david@....
> 
> Ian.
> 
> -- 
> Ian Clarke                                        ian@...
> Founder & Coordinator, The Freenet Project    http://freenetproject.org/
> Chief Technology Officer, Uprizer Inc.           http://www.uprizer.com/

Why not use Frost [ http://jtcfrost.sourceforge.net/ ] and discuss 
freenet on freenet :)

I like the ideas and philosophy behind the freenet project and run a 
node myself (i wonder what's in it).

Though I'm rather new to the technology, it looks like something that 
can really give back a lot of freedoms.  I would be interested in 
learning some more; so perhaps i'll check out the other list too.

have fun on the air!

--rr

.:.:cburn:.:. wrote:
> imc tech,
> 
> i have been invited to talk on a radio show with
> Ian Clarke (freenet) and Steven Starr (new KPFK
> Interim general manager for Pacifica's radio station
> in LA). Starr is one of the founders of the freenet
> project non-profit and is on their board as well.
> 
> i am writing for a couple of reasons:
> 
> 1. to announce this (it can be listend to at
> kpfk.org at 10am PST).
> 
> and
> 
> 2. because i want feedback and suggestions. as many of
> you know, we had this discussion in SF last may and i 
> don't want to pretend to represent the interests of the
> imc tech collective, but i do want to speak as an 
> individual.
> 
> so, i am asking for input, advice, critiques on this.
> please let me know asap.
> 
> also, there is a list out there that hasn't been used
> much by folks. it's at freenet-imc@....
> maybe this is a chance to put this list and kropotkin
> to one of its intended uses (fyi, freenet folks kicked
> in over $200 to help make kropotkin possible as a 
> freent-imc dev box).
> 
> best,
> 
> Chris Burnett
> LA IMC