Cream (for Vim)

Steve,

thanks for taking even more care of central installations. You have done a
great job on that topic so far.

On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 05:35:00PM -0400, Steve Hall wrote:
> Christoph, I hope you find Cream 0.29 makes all this obsolete and much
> simpler. All you have to do now is:
> 
>   gvim -U NONE -u "\$VIMRUNTIME/cream/creamrc" "$@"

Does not work here. It just says: 
 Error: Unable to find a location for view files.

Haven't investigated that, though. Why do you set -U to NONE and -u to the
creamrc? -U is for the gvimrc and -u is for the vimrc. Isn't that mixed up.

> a.)  =>  can really be anywhere, named anything

Of course. I just put it there due to the Debian policy.

> b.)  =>  external variable is no longer necessary

Good to know. So you have set defaults for CREAM, CREAM_USER, CREAM_BAK,
CREAM_SWP and CREAM_VIEW? At least CREAM_VIEW seems to miss (looking at the
above error message).

> c.)  =>  all user directories are now verified and created
>          automatically (well, except Elias' bug, now fixed in CVS. :)

Great.

> d.)  =>  if you drop this line into an executable "cream" on path, the
>          user can run both Vim and Vim/Cream at the same time!

That's why I provide a "cream" wrapper script so the user either uses the
normal "vim" or the "cream" (vim with cream enabled).

 Christoph

P.S.: Ben suggested to provide my authored man pages with your distribution.
      Interested?

-- 
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On Sat, 15 May 2004 00:10:05 +0200
Christoph Haas <email@...> wrote:

> >   gvim -U NONE -u "\$VIMRUNTIME/cream/creamrc" "$@"
> 
> Does not work here. It just says: 
>  Error: Unable to find a location for view files.

That's probably because you install creamrc in
/usr/share/vim/cream, and it's not $VIMRUNTIME/cream (which
would probably be /usr/share/vim/vim[version]/cream, or something
like that). We did the same for the Gentoo package, so we simply
changed the launcher script to:
   gvim -U NONE -u "\$VIM/cream/creamrc" "$@"

> Haven't investigated that, though. Why do you set -U to NONE and
> -u to the creamrc? -U is for the gvimrc and -u is for the vimrc.

I think that what is important here is that the only loaded 
initialization file is creamrc. The difference beetween vmirc and
gvimrc is mainly that vimrc (the -u file) is loaded before gvimrc
(the -U file). But since here only one file is loaded, using -u or
-U doesn't really matter.

> Good to know. So you have set defaults for CREAM, CREAM_USER,
> CREAM_BAK, CREAM_SWP and CREAM_VIEW? At least CREAM_VIEW seems
> to miss (looking at the above error message).

Looking at the creamrc, what I understand is that:
 - CREAM is set to the basedir of the creamrc file
 - CREAM_USER, CREAM_BAK and CREAM_VIEW have default values
(~/.cream, ~/.cream/tmp, ~/.cream/views) and are created (at
least with the fix for mkdirs that are in CVS)
 - CREAM_SWP defaults to "." if not set. And if set, it must be
an existing dir (there is no mkdir call).

> P.S.: Ben suggested to provide my authored man pages with your
> distribution.
>       Interested?

I'm sure non-Debian packagers would appreciate a small manpage in
the tarball ;)

-- 
TGL.

From: Christoph Haas, Sat, 15 May 2004 00:10:05 +0200 (CEST)
> 
> Steve,
> 
> thanks for taking even more care of central installations. You have
> done a great job on that topic so far.
> 
> On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 05:35:00PM -0400, Steve Hall wrote:
> >
> > Christoph, I hope you find Cream 0.29 makes all this obsolete and
> > much simpler. All you have to do now is:
> > 
> >   gvim -U NONE -u "\$VIMRUNTIME/cream/creamrc" "$@"
> 
> Does not work here. It just says: 
>  Error: Unable to find a location for view files.
 
Was Thomas correct in understanding you might need $VIM rather than
$VIMRUNTIME?


> Haven't investigated that, though. Why do you set -U to NONE and -u
> to the creamrc? -U is for the gvimrc and -u is for the vimrc. Isn't
> that mixed up.

We're both sourcing creamrc and avoiding any other possibility.


[...]
> > b.)  =>  external variable is no longer necessary
> 
> Good to know. So you have set defaults for CREAM, CREAM_USER,
> CREAM_BAK, CREAM_SWP and CREAM_VIEW? At least CREAM_VIEW seems to
> miss (looking at the above error message).

Please look at our CVS creamrc and see if the latest refactoring fixes
all this. You should no longer have to use external variables. (Note
that CREAM_SWP is now "./" for the file edited.)


[...]
> > d.)  =>  if you drop this line into an executable "cream" on path,
> >          the user can run both Vim and Vim/Cream at the same time!
> 
> That's why I provide a "cream" wrapper script so the user either
> uses the normal "vim" or the "cream" (vim with cream enabled).

Hopefully we can be rid of the wrappers now.


>  Christoph
> 
> P.S.: Ben suggested to provide my authored man pages with your
>       distribution. Interested?

Absolutely--please forward or drop us a link.


-- 
Steve Hall  [ digitect@... ]

Cream... the Vim text editor in sheep's clothing!
  http://cream.sourceforge.net

On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 09:27:51PM -0400, Steve Hall wrote:
> > >   gvim -U NONE -u "\$VIMRUNTIME/cream/creamrc" "$@"
> > 
> Was Thomas correct in understanding you might need $VIM rather than
> $VIMRUNTIME?

Yes, he was. But I already changed the path which did not help either. Is the
Gentoo package really depending on the officially released 0.29 version? I did
not use the CVS snapshot.

I have been reading the creamrc and it when I output the views directory in
the Cream_init_viewdir function it looks like this:

\home\chaas\.cream\views

Linux isn't known to like backslashes. ;) So it just does not create the
$HOME/.cream/views directory. That's the bug.

Until it's fixed I would like to stay with my self-made wrapper script.

> > Good to know. So you have set defaults for CREAM, CREAM_USER,
> > CREAM_BAK, CREAM_SWP and CREAM_VIEW? At least CREAM_VIEW seems to
> > miss (looking at the above error message).
> 
> Please look at our CVS creamrc and see if the latest refactoring fixes
> all this. You should no longer have to use external variables. (Note
> that CREAM_SWP is now "./" for the file edited.)

I could also package the CVS versions. But I'd rather like to stick with
official releases.

> > P.S.: Ben suggested to provide my authored man pages with your
> >       distribution. Interested?
> 
> Absolutely--please forward or drop us a link.

As it's rather small I take the freedom to attach it. It's nothing great and
describes the usage for the Debian-spefic system. Feel free to change it.

 Christoph

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On Sat, 15 May 2004 15:00:46 +0200
Christoph Haas <email@...> wrote:

> Yes, he was. But I already changed the path which did not help
> either. Is the Gentoo package really depending on the officially
> released 0.29 version? I did not use the CVS snapshot.

The Gentoo package is based on cream-0.29, with a few small
patches. This patches include fixing the slash vs. backslash issue
and changing VIMRUNTIME to VIM in the launcher script. You can
have a look here if you want:
http://www.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/app-vim/cream/
(relevant files: cream-0.29-r1.ebuild and files/cream-0.29*.patch)
 
> Linux isn't known to like backslashes. ;) So it just does not
> create the$HOME/.cream/views directory. That's the bug.

Here is the fix included in CVS:
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/cream/cream/creamrc?r1=1.5&r2=1.6&diff_format=u
Maybe you could use that in your package.

-- 
TGL.

From: Christoph Haas, Sat, 15 May 2004 15:00:46 +0200 (CEST)
> On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 09:27:51PM -0400, Steve Hall wrote:
> >

[...]
> I could also package the CVS versions. But I'd rather like to stick
> with official releases.

I'll try to drop another release next week to resolve this.

[...]
> > > P.S.: Ben suggested to provide my authored man pages with your
> > >       distribution. Interested?
> > 
> > Absolutely--please forward or drop us a link.
> 
> As it's rather small I take the freedom to attach it. It's nothing
> great and describes the usage for the Debian-spefic system. Feel
> free to change it.

Thanks, I'll look it over.

-- 
Steve Hall  [ digitect@... ]

Cream... the Vim text editor in sheep's clothing!
  http://cream.sourceforge.net

On Sat, May 15, 2004 at 05:24:30PM +0200, Thomas de Grenier de Latour wrote:
> The Gentoo package is based on cream-0.29, with a few small
> patches. This patches include fixing the slash vs. backslash issue
> and changing VIMRUNTIME to VIM in the launcher script. You can
> have a look here if you want:
> http://www.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/app-vim/cream/
> (relevant files: cream-0.29-r1.ebuild and files/cream-0.29*.patch)

I'm generally not happy with patching files manually. With every new release I
would need to put the patches back in. But as it will be fixed with the next
release I will show trust in mighty Steve. :)

> > Linux isn't known to like backslashes. ;) So it just does not
> > create the $HOME/.cream/views directory. That's the bug.

> Here is the fix included in CVS:
> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/cream/cream/creamrc?r1=1.5&r2=1.6&diff_format=u
> Maybe you could use that in your package.

So the 0.29 release has a buggy init script - that's all I wanted to know.
I have patched the creamrc (thanks Thomas for the hint) and simplified the
wrapper script to this:

#--------------------------------------------------------------------
#!/bin/sh
#
# This wrapper script is part of the "cream" Debian GNU/Linux package
# written by Christoph Haas <email@...>.

# Exit on error
set -e

CREAM=/usr/share/vim/cream/
export CREAM

# If this script is called as 'gcream' then try to run gvim
if [ $(basename $0) == "gcream" -a -x /usr/bin/gvim -a "$DISPLAY" != "" ] ;
then
        exec /usr/bin/gvim -U NONE -u "\$VIM/cream/creamrc" "$@"
# If this script is called as 'kcream' then try to run kvim
elif [ $(basename $0) == "kcream" -a -x /usr/bin/kvim -a "$DISPLAY" != "" ] ;
then
        exec /usr/bin/kvim -U NONE -u "\$VIM/cream/creamrc" "$@"
# ...otherwise try 'vim' (e.g. on a console)
else
        exec /usr/bin/vim -U NONE -u "\$VIM/cream/creamrc" "$@"
fi
#--------------------------------------------------------------------

I intend to keep a wrapper script with future distributions.

However the new package (-3) is now online at
http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cream/

Feedback welcome.

Greetings
 Christoph

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On Sat, 2004-05-15 at 21:43, Christoph Haas wrote:

> 
> I intend to keep a wrapper script with future distributions.
> 
> However the new package (-3) is now online at
> http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cream/
> 
> Feedback welcome.

I have it installed now, and seems to work :)

There's of course still some cream issues:

The toolbar still crashes - I had to delete
/usr/share/vim/cream/cream-menu-toolbar.vim.

It would be nice if I could disable the time-consuming
positioning/resizing everytime a window is opened, without having to
hack cream-lib.vim. Maybe a patch for debian users could be done? It
would just comment out the last 3 lines of the function
Cream_screen_init in there.

But if you just want to go with the official releases, then ignore them
for now like the imdisable.. Steve already knows about everything and
hopefull it will all be fixed in 0.30 :)

-- 
Elias Pschernig <elias@...>

On Mon, 2004-05-17 at 11:11, Elias Pschernig wrote:
> The toolbar still crashes - I had to delete
> /usr/share/vim/cream/cream-menu-toolbar.vim.

Ack.  This is bad, as this will destroy the integrity of the package. 
There is no way to locally work around the problem?

Ben
-- 
synrg at debian dot org

From: Elias Pschernig, May 17, 2004 10:11 AM
> On Sat, 2004-05-15 at 21:43, Christoph Haas wrote:
> > 
> > I intend to keep a wrapper script with future distributions.
> > 
> > However the new package (-3) is now online at
> > http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/c/cream/
> > 
> > Feedback welcome.
> 
> I have it installed now, and seems to work :)
> 
> There's of course still some cream issues:
> 
> The toolbar still crashes - I had to delete
> /usr/share/vim/cream/cream-menu-toolbar.vim.

What version of vim are you using? There were some ancient icon issues
with vim, but these were resolved ages ago. Other than that, I don't
know what this could be. Does anyone else see this?

> It would be nice if I could disable the time-consuming
> positioning/resizing everytime a window is opened, without having to
> hack cream-lib.vim. Maybe a patch for debian users could be done? It
> would just comment out the last 3 lines of the function
> Cream_screen_init in there.

How long is "time-consuming"? GNOME 1.4 on a P3-450 startup for me was
around a second, GNOME 2.4 on the same box is faster. I think this is
quite tolerable, considering on the Windows 95a partition it feels
even faster.

> But if you just want to go with the official releases, then ignore
> them for now like the imdisable.. Steve already knows about
> everything and hopefull it will all be fixed in 0.30 :)

I'm going to try and look at imdisable, but these other issues haven't
shown up as show-stoppers for others that I'm aware. I'm going to need
help finding the problem, I can't see it.

-- 
Steve Hall  [ digitect@... ]

Cream... the Vim text editor in sheep's clothing!
  http://cream.sourceforge.net

On Mon, 2004-05-17 at 17:06, Steve Hall wrote:
> > There's of course still some cream issues:
> > 
> > The toolbar still crashes - I had to delete
> > /usr/share/vim/cream/cream-menu-toolbar.vim.
> 
> What version of vim are you using? There were some ancient icon issues
> with vim, but these were resolved ages ago. Other than that, I don't
> know what this could be. Does anyone else see this?
> 

Well, gvim version is the one in debian:

VIM - Vi IMproved 6.3a BETA (2004 May 6, compiled May 13 2004 15:04:55)
Included patches: 1-18
Compiled by Norbert Tretkowski <nobse@...>
Big version with GTK2-GNOME GUI.  Features included (+) or not (-):
+arabic +autocmd +balloon_eval +browse ++builtin_terms +byte_offset
+cindent
+clientserver +clipboard +cmdline_compl +cmdline_hist +cmdline_info
+comments
+cryptv +cscope +dialog_con_gui +diff +digraphs +dnd -ebcdic +emacs_tags
+eval
+ex_extra +extra_search +farsi +file_in_path +find_in_path +folding
-footer
+fork() +gettext -hangul_input +iconv +insert_expand +jumplist +keymap
+langmap
 +libcall +linebreak +lispindent +listcmds +localmap +menu +mksession
+modify_fname +mouse +mouseshape +mouse_dec +mouse_gpm -mouse_jsbterm
+mouse_netterm +mouse_xterm +multi_byte +multi_lang +netbeans_intg
-osfiletype
+path_extra -perl +postscript +printer -python +quickfix +rightleft
-ruby
+scrollbind +signs +smartindent -sniff +statusline -sun_workshop +syntax
+tag_binary +tag_old_static -tag_any_white -tcl +terminfo +termresponse
+textobjects +title +toolbar +user_commands +vertsplit +virtualedit
+visual
+visualextra +viminfo +vreplace +wildignore +wildmenu +windows
+writebackup
+X11 -xfontset +xim +xsmp_interact +xterm_clipboard -xterm_save
   system vimrc file: "$VIM/vimrc"
     user vimrc file: "$HOME/.vimrc"
      user exrc file: "$HOME/.exrc"
  system gvimrc file: "$VIM/gvimrc"
    user gvimrc file: "$HOME/.gvimrc"
    system menu file: "$VIMRUNTIME/menu.vim"
  fall-back for $VIM: "/usr/share/vim"
Compilation: gcc -c -I. -Iproto -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -DFEAT_GUI_GTK 
-I/usr/include/gtk-2.0 -I/usr/lib/gtk-2.0/include -I/usr/include/atk-1.0
-I/usr/include/pango-1.0 -I/usr/include/freetype2 -I/usr/X11R6/include
-I/usr/include/glib-2.0 -I/usr/lib/glib-2.0/include   -DORBIT2=1
-pthread -I/usr/include/libgnomeui-2.0 -I/usr/include/libgnome-2.0
-I/usr/include/libgnomecanvas-2.0 -I/usr/include/gtk-2.0
-I/usr/include/libart-2.0 -I/usr/include/gconf/2
-I/usr/include/libbonoboui-2.0 -I/usr/include/glib-2.0
-I/usr/lib/glib-2.0/include -I/usr/include/orbit-2.0
-I/usr/include/libbonobo-2.0 -I/usr/include/gnome-vfs-2.0
-I/usr/lib/gnome-vfs-2.0/include -I/usr/include/bonobo-activation-2.0
-I/usr/include/pango-1.0 -I/usr/include/freetype2
-I/usr/lib/gtk-2.0/include -I/usr/include/atk-1.0 -I/usr/X11R6/include
-I/usr/include/libxml2     -O2 -DFEAT_LANGMAP -DFEAT_KEYMAP -DFEAT_SIGNS
-DFEAT_RIGHTLEFT  -I/usr/X11R6/include
Linking: gcc  -L/usr/X11R6/lib   -L/usr/local/lib -o vim  
-Wl,--export-dynamic -lgtk-x11-2.0 -lgdk-x11-2.0 -latk-1.0
-lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -lpangoxft-1.0 -lpangox-1.0 -lpango-1.0 -lgobject-2.0
-lgmodule-2.0 -lglib-2.0   -L/usr/X11R6/lib   -lgnomeui-2 -lbonoboui-2
-lxml2 -lz -lgnomecanvas-2 -lgnome-2 -lpopt -lart_lgpl_2 -lpangoft2-1.0
-lgtk-x11-2.0 -lgdk-x11-2.0 -latk-1.0 -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -lpangoxft-1.0
-lpangox-1.0 -lpango-1.0 -lbonobo-2 -lgconf-2 -lgnomevfs-2
-lbonobo-activation -lORBit-2 -lgobject-2.0 -lgthread-2.0 -lm
-lgmodule-2.0 -lglib-2.0   -lXt -lncurses -lgpm

I can't say why it crashes, but if I don't delete the toolbar.vim,
whenever a cream window closes, the gnome crash dialog pops up (without
any info) asking me if i want to restart the crashed application. With
the toolbar.vim removed, everything works.

> > It would be nice if I could disable the time-consuming
> > positioning/resizing everytime a window is opened, without having to
> > hack cream-lib.vim. Maybe a patch for debian users could be done? It
> > would just comment out the last 3 lines of the function
> > Cream_screen_init in there.
> 
> How long is "time-consuming"? GNOME 1.4 on a P3-450 startup for me was
> around a second, GNOME 2.4 on the same box is faster. I think this is
> quite tolerable, considering on the Windows 95a partition it feels
> even faster.

Well, maybe it just feels slow. If the window would open at the saved
position, it would be ok.. but it first opening somewhere, then me
adjusting to that position and preparing to manually move it, then
suddenly the window disappearing under the mouse and spawning somewhere
else.. definitely not a good behavior :P

So an option to disable it really would be nice, since now, whenever a
new version/package is out, I have to re-edit the .vim files. Something
I could put into cream-user.vim would be enough.

> 
> > But if you just want to go with the official releases, then ignore
> > them for now like the imdisable.. Steve already knows about
> > everything and hopefull it will all be fixed in 0.30 :)
> 
> I'm going to try and look at imdisable, but these other issues haven't
> shown up as show-stoppers for others that I'm aware. I'm going to need
> help finding the problem, I can't see it.

Yeah, the window positioning is rather minor. For the other 2.. i'm not
aware of having any non-standard settings (except running
debian-experimental).

-- 
Elias Pschernig <elias@...>

From: Elias Pschernig, May 17, 2004 11:27 AM
> On Mon, 2004-05-17 at 17:06, Steve Hall wrote:
> > > There's of course still some cream issues:
> > > 
> > > The toolbar still crashes - I had to delete
> > > /usr/share/vim/cream/cream-menu-toolbar.vim.
> > 
> > What version of vim are you using? There were some ancient icon
> > issues with vim, but these were resolved ages ago. Other than
> > that, I don't know what this could be. Does anyone else see this?
> 
> Well, gvim version is the one in debian:
> 
> VIM - Vi IMproved 6.3a BETA (2004 May 6, compiled May 13 2004
> 15:04:55)
> Included patches: 1-18
>
[...]
> 
> I can't say why it crashes, but if I don't delete the toolbar.vim,
> whenever a cream window closes, the gnome crash dialog pops up
> (without any info) asking me if i want to restart the crashed
> application. With the toolbar.vim removed, everything works.

So the warning only happens after you exit Cream/Vim? Did you see this
in Vim 6.2.x?


> > > It would be nice if I could disable the time-consuming
> > > positioning/resizing everytime a window is opened, without
> > > having to hack cream-lib.vim. Maybe a patch for debian users
> > > could be done? It would just comment out the last 3 lines of the
> > > function Cream_screen_init in there.
> > 
> > How long is "time-consuming"? GNOME 1.4 on a P3-450 startup for me
> > was around a second, GNOME 2.4 on the same box is faster. I think
> > this is quite tolerable, considering on the Windows 95a partition
> > it feels even faster.
> 
> Well, maybe it just feels slow. If the window would open at the
> saved position, it would be ok.. but it first opening somewhere,
> then me adjusting to that position and preparing to manually move
> it, then suddenly the window disappearing under the mouse and
> spawning somewhere else.. definitely not a good behavior :P
> 
> So an option to disable it really would be nice, since now, whenever
> a new version/package is out, I have to re-edit the .vim files.
> Something I could put into cream-user.vim would be enough.

Oh, now I remember. Yes, this is on the ToDo, as is researching window
position memory as a native Vim feature in a recent patch. (Thinking
it would be faster.) I wanted to investigate that before making it
optional. 


-- 
Steve Hall  [ digitect@... ]

Cream... the Vim text editor in sheep's clothing!
  http://cream.sourceforge.net

On Mon, 2004-05-17 at 18:00, Steve Hall wrote:
> > 
> > I can't say why it crashes, but if I don't delete the toolbar.vim,
> > whenever a cream window closes, the gnome crash dialog pops up
> > (without any info) asking me if i want to restart the crashed
> > application. With the toolbar.vim removed, everything works.
> 
> So the warning only happens after you exit Cream/Vim? Did you see this
> in Vim 6.2.x?
> 
> 

Hm, apparently, there were to versions to choose from in aptitute, so I
downgraded the vim packages. And just the same happens. At exit, I get
that crash dialog. Here the version I have now:

VIM - Vi IMproved 6.2 (2003 Jun 1, compiled May 13 2004 15:43:19)
Included patches: 1-532
Compiled by Norbert Tretkowski <nobse@...>
Big version with GTK2-GNOME GUI.  Features included (+) or not (-):
+arabic +autocmd +balloon_eval +browse ++builtin_terms +byte_offset +cindent
+clientserver +clipboard +cmdline_compl +cmdline_hist +cmdline_info +comments
+cryptv +cscope +dialog_con_gui +diff +digraphs +dnd -ebcdic +emacs_tags +eval
+ex_extra +extra_search +farsi +file_in_path +find_in_path +folding -footer
+fork() +gettext -hangul_input +iconv +insert_expand +jumplist +keymap +langmap
 +libcall +linebreak +lispindent +listcmds +localmap +menu +mksession
+modify_fname +mouse +mouseshape +mouse_dec +mouse_gpm -mouse_jsbterm
+mouse_netterm +mouse_xterm +multi_byte +multi_lang +netbeans_intg -osfiletype
+path_extra -perl +postscript +printer -python +quickfix +rightleft -ruby
+scrollbind +signs +smartindent -sniff +statusline -sun_workshop +syntax
+tag_binary +tag_old_static -tag_any_white -tcl +terminfo +termresponse
+textobjects +title +toolbar +user_commands +vertsplit +virtualedit +visual
+visualextra +viminfo +vreplace +wildignore +wildmenu +windows +writebackup
+X11 -xfontset +xim +xsmp_interact +xterm_clipboard -xterm_save

-- 
Elias Pschernig <elias@...>

On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 11:06:26AM -0400, Steve Hall wrote:
> From: Elias Pschernig, May 17, 2004 10:11 AM
> > There's of course still some cream issues:
> > 
> > The toolbar still crashes - I had to delete
> > /usr/share/vim/cream/cream-menu-toolbar.vim.
> 
> What version of vim are you using? There were some ancient icon issues
> with vim, but these were resolved ages ago. Other than that, I don't
> know what this could be. Does anyone else see this?

I am just trying here with a current Sid. No problems with the toolbar.

> > It would be nice if I could disable the time-consuming
> > positioning/resizing everytime a window is opened, without having to
> > hack cream-lib.vim. Maybe a patch for debian users could be done? It
> > would just comment out the last 3 lines of the function
> > Cream_screen_init in there.
> 
> How long is "time-consuming"? GNOME 1.4 on a P3-450 startup for me was
> around a second, GNOME 2.4 on the same box is faster. I think this is
> quite tolerable, considering on the Windows 95a partition it feels
> even faster.

I guess he means the "jumping around". When gvim opens it tries to remember
its last position (or the window manager does that) and then it again jumps to
another position as soon as the cream scripts are loaded.

> > But if you just want to go with the official releases, then ignore
> > them for now like the imdisable.. Steve already knows about
> > everything and hopefull it will all be fixed in 0.30 :)
> 
> I'm going to try and look at imdisable, but these other issues haven't
> shown up as show-stoppers for others that I'm aware. I'm going to need
> help finding the problem, I can't see it.

Neither can I. If anything needs to be changed because it's Debian-specfic (I
doubt that) I will of course add that.

 Christoph

-- 
~
~
".signature" [Modified] 3 lines --100%--                3,41         All

On Mon, 17 May 2004 19:34:32 +0200
Christoph Haas <email@...> wrote:

> I am just trying here with a current Sid. No problems with the
> toolbar.

I think that's because Ellias is using gtk-2.4 whereas on a
normal Sid you are probably still using gtk-2.2. I've already
reported a patch for gvim that solved the same issue for me:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=vim-dev&m=108317705302808
What I still don't know is whether it is a GVim bug that I fixed
or a Gtk-2.4 bug that I worked-around (my knowledge of gtk and C
debugging is very limited)... Bram asked for a second look from
someone who would understand all of this better than me. Anyone?

> I guess he means the "jumping around". When gvim opens it tries
> to remember its last position (or the window manager does that)
> and then it again jumps to another position as soon as the
> cream scripts are loaded.

Here, I disable this feature by setting this two variables in
~/.cream/cream-conf.vim:

    let g:CREAM_WINPOSY_UNIX = ""
    let g:CREAM_WINPOSX_UNIX = ""

Btw, this makes me think that when packaging for linux, we
should patch cream-conf.example.vim to change the "_WIN" to
"_UNIX" in this vars. I will try to remember this for next
version. Or, Steve, maybe you could simply drop this suffixes?
What was their purpose?

> > I'm going to try and look at imdisable, but these other issues
> > haven't shown up as show-stoppers for others that I'm aware.
> > I'm going to need help finding the problem, I can't see it.

To be able to write french (with accentued letters), I've added
"set noimd" in ~/.cream/cream-user.vim. I've not seen the
<S-Space> issue suggested in the comment in cream-settings.vim.
What was the problem supposed to be exactly?

-- 
TGL.

On Mon, 2004-05-17 at 21:12, Thomas de Grenier de Latour wrote:
> On Mon, 17 May 2004 19:34:32 +0200
> Christoph Haas <email@...> wrote:
> 
> > I am just trying here with a current Sid. No problems with the
> > toolbar.
> 
> I think that's because Ellias is using gtk-2.4 whereas on a
> normal Sid you are probably still using gtk-2.2. I've already
> reported a patch for gvim that solved the same issue for me:
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=vim-dev&m=108317705302808
> What I still don't know is whether it is a GVim bug that I fixed
> or a Gtk-2.4 bug that I worked-around (my knowledge of gtk and C
> debugging is very limited)... Bram asked for a second look from
> someone who would understand all of this better than me. Anyone?
> 

Yes, I remember, it was mentioned here.. i guess i should go test it :P

> > I guess he means the "jumping around". When gvim opens it tries
> > to remember its last position (or the window manager does that)
> > and then it again jumps to another position as soon as the
> > cream scripts are loaded.
> 
> Here, I disable this feature by setting this two variables in
> ~/.cream/cream-conf.vim:
> 
>     let g:CREAM_WINPOSY_UNIX = ""
>     let g:CREAM_WINPOSX_UNIX = ""
> 

Hm. With that, whenever cream starts, it requests me to hit "Enter".

> Btw, this makes me think that when packaging for linux, we
> should patch cream-conf.example.vim to change the "_WIN" to
> "_UNIX" in this vars. I will try to remember this for next
> version. Or, Steve, maybe you could simply drop this suffixes?
> What was their purpose?

Heh, yes, even when looking at the cream-conf example, I'd never have
figured out to replace WIN with UNIX.

> 
> > > I'm going to try and look at imdisable, but these other issues
> > > haven't shown up as show-stoppers for others that I'm aware.
> > > I'm going to need help finding the problem, I can't see it.
> 
> To be able to write french (with accentued letters), I've added
> "set noimd" in ~/.cream/cream-user.vim. I've not seen the
> <S-Space> issue suggested in the comment in cream-settings.vim.
> What was the problem supposed to be exactly?

I did the same, put "set noimdisable" there. So it should be default in
the debian package?

-- 
Elias Pschernig <elias@...>

From: Thomas de Grenier de Latour, Mon, 17 May 2004 21:12:11 +0200
> Christoph Haas, Mon, 17 May 2004 19:34:32 +0200:
> >
> > I guess he means the "jumping around". When gvim opens it tries to
> > remember its last position (or the window manager does that) and
> > then it again jumps to another position as soon as the cream
> > scripts are loaded.
>
> Here, I disable this feature by setting this two variables in
> ~/.cream/cream-conf.vim:
>
>     let g:CREAM_WINPOSY_UNIX = ""
>     let g:CREAM_WINPOSX_UNIX = ""
>
> Btw, this makes me think that when packaging for linux, we should
> patch cream-conf.example.vim to change the "_WIN" to "_UNIX" in this
> vars. I will try to remember this for next version. Or, Steve, maybe
> you could simply drop this suffixes? What was their purpose?

How about an OS conditioning line and have them both:

    if has("win32")
        let os = "WIN"
    elseif has("unix")
        let os = "UNIX"
    else
        let os = "OTHER"
    endif

    " font (default "[font spec]")
    "let g:CREAM_FONT_{os} = ""

    " window position (default 50, 50, 50, 80)
    " Note: Relies on font size above.
    "let g:CREAM_WINPOSY_{os} = 50
    "let g:CREAM_WINPOSX_{os} = 50
    "let g:CREAM_LINES_{os} = 50
    "let g:CREAM_COLS_{os} = 80

Actually the whole point was that at one time I used the same
configuration from both Windows and Linux and I needed a way to
remember a different state for each. (Fonts are also remembered by
OS.) I doubt many users need this, but since it's already designed, in
use, and basically the extent of OS-specific preferences, let's just
keep them.


> > > I'm going to try and look at imdisable, 
>
[...]
> To be able to write french (with accentued letters), I've added
> "set noimd" in ~/.cream/cream-user.vim. I've not seen the
> <S-Space> issue suggested in the comment in cream-settings.vim.
> What was the problem supposed to be exactly?

Without :set noimdisable, <S-Space> can't be mapped in current GNOME
2.4, FC1.


-- 
Steve Hall  [ digitect@... ]

Cream... the Vim text editor in sheep's clothing!
  http://cream.sourceforge.net

On Sat, May 15, 2004 at 08:03:01AM +0200, Elias Pschernig wrote:
> You might want to consider adding:
>=20
> set noimdisable
>=20
> somewhere, or a patch to remove the "set imdisable" from around line 50
> of cream-settings.vim:
>=20
> " GTK2 hack: <S-Space> is broken otherwise
> if has("gui_gtk2")
>     set imdisable
> endif
>=20
> Since the above breaks input of all keys requiring two key-strokes on a
> German (and I assume any non-English) keyboard, e.g. everything like
> =E9=E8=EA=F1 or just simply ^ or ~ in C code. So many users won't be ab=
le to
> properly use cream without IM.. unless there's some other way to input
> those chars.

Steve, what's your holy opinion? All I can say is that ligatures/umlauts =
are
working properly here using the default setting.

 Christoph

--=20
~
~
".signature" [Modified] 3 lines --100%--                3,41         All

On Sat, 2004-05-15 at 21:51, Christoph Haas wrote:

> Steve, what's your holy opinion? All I can say is that ligatures/umlauts are
> working properly here using the default setting.
> 

The problem is not the characters, but how they are made. I have to
first press the key with ^ on it, release it again, and then press
another key, to get the combined character (or space to just get a ^).
Same for ` and ~. All the 3 keys don't work with default cream for me -
but work when IM is not disabled.

-- 
Elias Pschernig <elias@...>

From: Elias Pschernig, Sat, 15 May 2004 21:58:38 +0200
> On Sat, 2004-05-15 at 21:51, Christoph Haas wrote:
> 
> > Steve, what's your holy opinion? All I can say is that
> > ligatures/umlauts are working properly here using the default
> > setting.
> 
> The problem is not the characters, but how they are made. I have to
> first press the key with ^ on it, release it again, and then press
> another key, to get the combined character (or space to just get a
> ^). Same for ` and ~. All the 3 keys don't work with default cream
> for me - but work when IM is not disabled.

The &imdisable issue is now on the ToDo list. I recall some very
recent patches to the Vim 6.3x series that addressed this, somebody
needs to look in to what they were about.



-- 
Steve Hall  [ digitect@... ]

Cream... the Vim text editor in sheep's clothing!
  http://cream.sourceforge.net