On Wed, 4 Nov 2009, Enne Walker wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 11:08 PM, David Ploog <ploog@...> wrote:
>> I still think that "hole" and "shaft" work nicely. "Hole" clearly
>> transports the mental image of something that's stable and you can go down
>> it you really want to. "Shaft" indicates something that is cramped, so
>> less stable
> I'm not trying to be argumentative, but to me those words do not
> connote any of those things. (Cramped, maybe.)
I will simply stop worrying about words. Whenever I want to discuss
gameplay, I end up discussing words. I really don't like "escape hatch"
but all I am interested in is making those brown stairs interesting,
perhaps by replacing them with brown ^ if it helps.
> So other than the terminology change, am I understanding that the main
> changes here are:
> (1) the removal of brown <.
> (2) Change (most) brown > into shaft traps, which act like brown >
> when detected?
Yes on (1). No on (2). Here is the true (2):
(2) Change most brown > into known ^. Known ^ (known from detecting a
secret one, or because it was generated known) can be used with > BUT they
disappear after use AND monsters don't follow.
Your (2) is also misleading in that all ^ go deeper than just one level,
although this is slightly less important to me than the other bits.
> This seems really different to me than the proposals above. Pre-known
> shafts now seem identical to down-hatches, so why have both? Also,
> what happened to brown > being single use and not letting monsters
> follow? I thought that was a particularly good idea.
^^ It was always implied, at least by me.
> When I go back and read your original reasons for why hatches need
> changing (i.e. nobody uses them), I don't feel like this proposal
> solves any of that, whereas the original proposal potentially could.
> I will counter-propose this set of changes:
> * Upward escape hatches (brown <) are removed.
> * Detected shaft traps (^) can now be used by choice with ">".
> * Downward escape hatches (brown >) are single-use, monsters don't follow.
> * Downward escape hatches in bubbles become (detected?) shaft traps.
> * No naming changes. Escape hatch and shaft trap are good names.
Not only that we now have many different proposals around, you have
essentially reinvented my original proposal. The first idea was extremely
simple: brown stairs can be used only once, monsters don't follow. I
believe this alone would make them interesting.
Things started to get more complicated when Adam complained that it's
nonsensical to have "escape hatches" disappear (so I came up with the
change of terminology) and that having brown <> in vaults/bubbles
disappear would be unfair (so I came up with known ^ alongside the >).
This has become such a mess that I'd really like to abandon this
altogether. Were I not convinced that single-use levelchange features
which have monsters not follow is a damn good idea (by Borsuk, by the