On 19 December 2012 01:17, Gale Andrews <gale@...> wrote:
> | From Steve the Fiddle <stevethefiddle@...>
> | Tue, 18 Dec 2012 03:10:12 +0000
> | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect
>> On 18 December 2012 00:54, Gale Andrews <gale@...> wrote:
>> > | From Steve the Fiddle <stevethefiddle@...>
>> > | Mon, 17 Dec 2012 15:00:59 +0000
>> > | Subject: [Audacity-devel] Bass and Treble effect
>> >> Updated version of "Bass and Treble" effect.
>> >> Changes:
>> >> The half gain low shelf frequency is a little lower and the half gain
>> >> high shelf frequency is a little higher.
>> >> This makes the bass setting a bit more "bassy" and the treble setting
>> >> a bit more "trebly".
>> >> The filter slopes have been slightly reduced so that a smooth response
>> >> across the audio range is maintained.
>> >> A "Gain" slider control has been added.
>> >> This allows users to compensate for the inevitable overall change in
>> >> gain when applying frequency boost or cut.
>> >> These changes also makes it easier to adjust the mid-frequency range:
>> >> As with a conventional Bass/Treble control on an amplifier of music
>> >> player, to increase the mid frequencies, simply turn down the bass and
>> >> treble and turn the "volume" (gain slider) up a bit. To reduce the
>> >> mid-frequencies, turn up the bass and treble and turn the "volume"
>> >> (gain) down a bit.
>> >> Fringe benefit: The Bass control now behaves a little more like the
>> >> default settings of the old "Bass Boost" effect.
>> >> Unless there are problems that I am not aware of, I expect this to be
>> >> my "final" version of this effect.
>> >> Steve
>> > Thanks, Steve.
>> > Here is a Windows build for anyone who may need it:
>> > http://gaclrecords.org.uk/audacity-win-2.0.3-alpha-bass-treble-v3.zip .
>> Thanks Gale
>> > I'm not sure the gain slider is an improvement for the rank
>> > novices you are targeting. Will they know what the word "gain"
>> > means?
>> I would hope so as we use the term throughout the manual
>> (e.g. http://manual.audacityteam.org/o/man/audio_tracks.html#gain)
> That's mainly my question throughout - if we are oversimplifying
> this effect. The user new to computers won't get far with
> Audacity if they expect familiarity with an amplifier or MP3 player.
>> > If they figure out it increases or reduces the volume, won't they
>> > get confused/disappointed if they for example set bass to +8 dB
>> > then gain to -8 dB and the track ends up too quiet? If one is
>> > trying to get the peak to 0 dB or close you still have to experiment
>> > with the gain to get it right. Would a checkbox to normalize to a
>> > chosen level be more useful?
>> Probably not, because we then need to decide how to handle multiple
>> selected tracks.
>> If the effect is applied to multiple tracks then one may not want to
>> amplify each track by different amounts.
> Should we scale to 0 dB then (or a selectable level) like Amplify?
>> The "gain" slider is just a matter of convenience. I added it because
>> while I was using the "Bass and Treble" effect I kept thinking "I wish
>> this had a gain control".
> It's a convenience, but I think it has potential issues for novices
> (for example they could boost the volume to excess, thinking they
> could do it "safely" if they reduced the treble by the same amount).
> I just wanted to be sure you'd considered that.
>> > My personal reaction on trying to fix a number of tinny sounding
>> > songs here is that turning up bass and treble and turning down
>> > the volume as you might do in the absence of an equalizer is a
>> > poor substitute for an actual control for the mid frequencies.
>> How do you cope with your hi-fi?
>> Of course, many users will be happy to use the Equalizer, but if you
>> just want to quickly push the bass or treble up or down a bit, then
>> this is a lot more convenient.
> I use my HiFi to play analogue LP's and accept I cannot EQ as I
> might like, or to listen to digital media files processed in Audacity
> (often LP transfers) where I was able to EQ as I wished. It's one
> of the compensating advantages of digital.
> The suggestion (no more than that) was just that a mid frequency
> control could be useful in an effect that's offering very basic
> frequency adjustment. If we get a "second simple EQ" sometime
> then the lack of a mid adjustment in "Bass and Treble" matters a lot
>> > We don't have to have a mid control (the effect is called "Bass
>> > and Treble" after all) but I think volume adjustment should stand
>> > or not on its own merits of adjusting the volume.
>> Yes. It is a convenience. After a short while using the effect without
>> a gain control it soon becomes tedious that you can't, for example,
>> increase the bass without the level going above 0 dB. The gain control
>> is not intended to replace the Amplify or Normalize effects, it just
>> means that while you are previewing the effect, if it starts clipping
>> you can pull down the gain without the need to cancel the effect,
>> apply Amplify, then re-select the effect,
> OK, I accept that, but without preview being sent to the playback
> meters you can never really tell if the result is going to clip or
> not until you play the processed waveform. Hence the suggestion
> for normalizing or scaling which takes all the guesswork out of it.
>> > Should you add a balance control and make it like the four controls
>> > on an amplifier? I don't think so because I still see the value of this
>> > as a "very simple EQ", but I wonder if you considered it.
>> It's a bass and treble (tone) control.
>> We already have "pan" for panning (balance).
>> > One other thing - should we write the settings to .cfg? I assume
>> > people who used Bass Boost were doing just that and may want
>> > to continue doing so. A flat initialised setting for each session
>> > could be irritating for such people.
>> I guess that depends if the user is in the habit of "zeroing the desk"
>> after use (or not).
>> (Bass Boost does not write settings to .cfg)
> I know Bass Boost does not write to .cfg, but I worry a bit about
> the current users of that effect. We are already removing the
> frequency control (alright, let's see what happens with user
> reaction). But then we want users of Bass Boost to be forced
> to adjust the controls as well, whereas before they could if
> desired get some kind of bass boost just by pressing "OK".
Let's not forget that if the original audio is much over -6 dB peak,
then the default settings of Bass Boost will cause permanent damage
due to clipping that can only be fixed with "Undo".
> So especially if Bass Boost is the most common quick EQ you'd
> want to do, I think writing to Prefs should be considered - at
> least for a future iteration. After all, EQ stores the curve, and
> you can be pretty sure no-one would apply Bass - Treble with
> the settings it initialises to.